too conservative?

[kevin2536 0]

Playing 1/2 NL tonight. I have about $950 in front. We are playing 9 handed when I raise from $10 total UTG with A A . One caller from the small blind. He has about $500. I sat down about 10 minutes earlier, so no read. Flop comes Q 5 8 . He bets $15 into the pot. I raise to $40 total. He calls and we see a turn of 2 . He checks and I bet $100. He makes the call and the river comes with the J . He checks and I check. He flipped over J 6 .Was it a bad check on the end? I did not put him on a flush draw because I was holding the A . Any advice would help out.

[pokerplayer101 0]

No. You just have a pair of aces. If you bet he most likely wouldn't have called you anyway. He could have had queen-jack but you should be able to tell by looking at him if he has a hand. Ask yourself why does he keep check-calling. As it turned out in this case the answer was obvious. If you're unsure, just play it safe. Next time, you bet on the river you'll get reraised and find out he made two pair or a set. You have less likelihood of gaining than you do losing. You played it great.

[kung fu 0]

excellent play. in this situation, if you raise the river, two things can happen. the worse hand will fold or the better hand will re-raise or MAYBE if you're lucky just call.

[Jordan 1]

well played.if you have a read you can bet that river I think. But since you didn't, check behind is perfect.- Jordan

[Blink20 0]

No. You just have a pair of aces. If you bet he most likely wouldn't have called you anyway.  He could have had queen-jack but you should be able to tell by looking at him if he has a hand. Ask yourself why does he keep check-calling. As it turned out in this case the answer was obvious. If you're unsure, just play it safe. Next time, you bet on the river you'll get reraised and find out he made two pair or a set. You have less likelihood of gaining than you do losing. You played it great.

First of all, to the OP, please don't post results next time. In your post, you saying, he only had a pair of jacks, so did I lose value on the river ? You should be asking, what is my best move on the river, not knowing what he has, no one responding needs to know what the opponent has, sometimes that will affect people's perspective.To the part I bolded in this response, if you are unsure, just play it safe. Now, that's a decent piece of advice and I absolutely agree with that, but that makes me want to say, you shouldn't be unsure !In one of my favorite poker books, the author talks about how it is natural to lose in poker. If you follow your natural instincts (to some extent), like wanting to have fun, chase a hand, or get scared, or play loose/ passive, or whatever else, then you will lose. Here's what I'm getting at, its also natural to not always pay complete attention. The poker rooms have great tvs, funny players, hot cocktail waitresses, and so on. The great thing about playing one table live is there is a ton of information available.So, to the hand. You need to know the exact tendencies of your opponent here, that's if you are serious about winning. If its just for fun then don't worry about it, but to maximize profit we need to know how he plays. You also need to go through all the action in the round in your mind on the river. You raise preflop, he just calls, he leads and just calls, then he checks and just calls, then he checks. So many questions arise during this hand, does this player often protect his hand, look at the flop, if he had a set would he protect it oop by coming strong after your raise. Could he have two pair, how would he play two pair in this situation? Q 8 5 2 J. Would he play a gutshot and then trap you on the river? How weak of a Queen would he play in this spot. How weak of any hand would he call down to the river with?If you have a read on your opponent that he is a calling station, a loose/passive/passive, you need to value bet him. Imo, most opponents live are some form of donks at the 1/2 level and a lot of your money will come from the value bets.I have to disagree with everyone's response. This is a value bet on the river, unless you have a limited range of hands on your opponent. If he is tricky and aggressive and mainly capable of a bluff raise (which is rare for any opponent) then you can forgo the value on the river.Value bet the river, he pays AQ, KQ, Q10, Q anything, A 8 etc, and more hands. He's been weak the whole way, and being a player that always strives for the most value out of a hand against weak oppo0nents you will make more. Now with that same action in mind, and you value bet say even as little as 150 on the river, then he comes over the top, you can probably lay it down because he would certainly have something here. But most of the time you are ahead of his range so that bet is making you money.I suggest reading the section on value bets in Brunson's section in Supersystem, its a great read. Many players miss out on river opportunities because like I said at the begining of this response, it doesn't really feel natural to make a bet like that with just ap air of aces, but considering your opponent and all the action in the hand, its gotta be +EV. Same goes for when you are playing an A with a king kicker and its tough to get value on river against a weak opponent that you know could be playing the A 2, the great players get value in the right spots.GL at the tables.

[Jordan 1]

If he has no read and is folding to a c/r if he bets then the only play for him in this situation is to check.I'm totally for value betting the river with just a pair. You have to do it in No limit, but if he is checking this river cause he is "lost" in the hand, I don't think he should be it.Now if he is checking cause he is playing with scared money then you are frankly playing to high of a limit...and this whole topic is biased already.I really think in most situations like this you "can" value bet even without a read, and get paid off and then get a read. You very rarely are going to get c/r on that board if he checks to you. So you need to ask yourself if it's just scared money or honest to goodness willingness to take a free showdown and get a read if you dont think he has a calling hand (for instance you put him on a flush draw).- Jordan

[kevin2536 0]

Thanks for the responses.If I bet $150 into the pot on the river and he raises all-in I'm obviously pot comitted. I think the bet on the river could have costed me a lot more money.Again, I just sat down at the table and had absolutely no read. It was the first had we played and I did not know if he thought that I was playing the hand very agressively and was waiting to trap on the river? If he was waiting to trap me on a set or two pair he probably would've bet the river, correct?

[jimmybaker04 0]

A couple posts above is right though. Don't post the results.Were you checking the river regardless of what fell? I think there are really only two likely holdings that allow this J to beat us. QJ and 9 10 .I think that we can assume an overpair is good when he checks the river, but I am not opposed to this check.

[jimmybaker04 0]

Thanks for the responses.If I bet $150 into the pot on the river and he raises all-in I'm obviously pot comitted. I think the bet on the river could have costed me a lot more money.Again, I just sat down at the table and had absolutely no read. It was the first had we played and I did not know if he thought that I was playing the hand very agressively and was waiting to trap on the river? If he was waiting to trap me on a set or two pair he probably would've bet the river, correct?

I have sort of a reverse question. We are the villain and we have let's say a set of 8s. Would we rather check/raise the turn, or lead off on the river? If I am trapping here, I am always check/raising the turn. This way if I flop a draw and turn a double draw, I can check/raise in hopes of picking up the pot right there. It only works because I have shown I will do the same with a strong made hand. Obviously I am not doing this everytime, but it is my preferred method of trap. Thoughts? (I hate attempting to check/raise the river on a trap)

[mbreon 0]

I agree with jordan here. You are new to the table and do not have any reads on the player you are up against. I check on the river. The situation could obviously be different if you had been at the table for a while and have a line on your opponent's style of play; since you do not, you will be put to a difficult decision if check-raised on the river, so check.

[macphec 0]

Good posts above. VS an unknown this is a no brainer river check

[Arkus 0]

With this river card the only hand I'm worried about is 10x which wouldn't add up because there was no straight draw on the flop. I would have to put a check call, check call on that flush chasing maybe a pair with that club draw.Put out a bet on the river of $100-150 and see where he comes back at you, you wouldn't be pot commited just because you have no really good read on this player and you'd still have a decent amount to play with even if you lay it down to his all in.In this case I agree it's not natural to not bet the river with AA mainly because you just sat down. Don't think of whether or not you have a read on him or the others at the table try to think of how they percieve you and play up to that to win more in the long run. Just 10 mins in you have no read and neither do they, you have to setup for later as well.

[TheKingOfAces 0]

In one of my favorite poker books, the author talks about how it is natural to lose in poker.

Out of curiosity, which book is this? Sounds familiar, and if I already have it I'd like to look over this part again.

[NoSup4U 0]

Good posts above. VS an unknown this is a no brainer river check

[Abbaddabba 0]

No. You just have a pair of aces. If you bet he most likely wouldn't have called you anyway. He could have had queen-jack but you should be able to tell by looking at him if he has a hand. Ask yourself why does he keep check-calling.

Top pair almost every time. Second pair a fair amount of the time.A small pair if he's feeling spicy.Ace high if he's wearing his drool guard.What live 1/2 games do you play at?If you get check/raised on that river, good for him. He's almost never doing it as a complete bluff. For every time ive seen a check/raise river bluff, ive seen hundreds of check/folds or check/calls.

[kevin2536 0]

If I make a bet on the river ($150), and he comes over the top, are you calling? It would be an extra $200 to call to win the $800 in the middle. How can you lay this down on the river when you are getting 4-1 on your money? So it could end up costing me $350 with a bet on the river.

[kevin2536 0]

I play 1/2 at the Mirage, MGM, and at Binions

[Abbaddabba 0]

There is $300 in the pot going into the river.I'd probably bet an additional $100. If he pushed all in, you'd be getting roughly 3:1 on your money. Do you think that he's bluffing 25% of the time or more? If so, call. If not, fold.

[caribstv 0]

Playing 1/2 NL tonight.  I have about $950 in front.  We are playing 9 handed when I raise from $10 total UTG with A A .  One caller from the small blind.  He has about $500. I sat down about 10 minutes earlier, so no read.  Flop comes Q 5 8 .  He bets $15 into the pot.  I raise to $40 total.  He calls and we see a turn of 2 .  He checks and I bet $100.  He makes the call and the river comes with the J . He checks and I check.  He flipped over J 6 .Was it a bad check on the end?  I did not put him on a flush draw because I was holding the A .  Any advice would help out.

I take you feel you cheated yourself out of more few chips.it happens... how ever if you queeze a few more chips in at the river even will marginable hands even if you bet 1/4 to 1/3 of the potyou'll make more money in the long run..PS.. who and where does this guy play?? I'd love to play with him any.day!!!

[HurricaneKyle 0]

I bet the river here. He could have QJ here, but there are MANY hands he could have been calling with and that is the only realistic hand he could have that beats us. There are times to check from behind with an overpair, but the texture of this flop is rather weak. You don't have to worry about a set because he would have likely check raised the turn to get more money in the pot. And again, other than QJ it is hard to see what other two pair could be played like this.

[96roadster 0]

Given has action i would have put him on a missed flush draw or an AQ type of hand given that river I most likely would have bet $100 or so but really dont feel bad about checking as you did. The real question would be your action if your bet and he pushed. Given these stakes and the stack size does anybody else feel that he should have raised more PF?

[iggymcfly 0]

There's no way on earth I check behind here with AA, especially in a live game. You have no reason whatsoever to think you'd be behind here and there's a lot of hands that would call a relatively small value bet.Checking all the way to the river in hopes of a check-raise doesn't make a lot of sense, so if you think you're ahead of over half of his range that's not a missed draw than you should bet. I'd say, that when your opponent has a hand here, it only beats your aces about 1/4 of the time. If you bet $100 here, it will make you a lot of value in the long run.

[TeeSludge 0]

I play 1/2 at the Mirage, MGM, and at Binions

Are there no max buy ins there? I'm guessing yes if you just sat down and had $950 in front of ya.

[Jordan 1]

I play 1/2 at the Mirage, MGM, and at Binions

Are there no max buy ins there? I'm guessing yes if you just sat down and had $950 in front of ya.

shut up donkey.kiddie game is down the roaddddddddddddd- Jordan

[TeeSludge 0]

I play 1/2 at the Mirage, MGM, and at Binions

Are there no max buy ins there? I'm guessing yes if you just sat down and had $950 in front of ya.

shut up donkey.kiddie game is down the roaddddddddddddd- Jordan

hahaha, don't be mad at me because your cyber girlfriend stacked you HU.