where are more fishies -- online or casinos?

[Diabolical 0]

now i'm seein why you like to argue so much with meYOUR ONE OF THOSE STRATEGY FCPERS WHO THINKS YOUR SHIIIAT SMELLS LIKE APPLE PIE.I laugh at strategyhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

[Diabolical 0]

when you make a thread in strategy, start off every one withONCE UPON A TIMEcause all your doin is talkin about some poker hand that you encountered. It's like an outlet to vent or get approval or whatever kind of reaction your lookin forstrategy BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[greenchris 0]

Drawing Dead...I've been visiting the strategy sections recently, at first I didn't know it was there because it is at the bottom of the main forum page (you have to scroll down to see it)...but I love the LHE section and have been corresponding with Screech over there privately after reading a few of his posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis on various hands.I would imagine that he would have something to say about the fishy factor in online vs live games (assuming he plays live, not sure where he lives). He recently said he stopped playing full ring games online basically because he felt like the full ring online games are a grind. Man, after logging the hours I have over at UB 's full ring LHE games recently, I couldn't agree more. I've been slowly adding to my BR at UB, but not as fast as I was when I was playing at Party. He said that he was feeling the same way with the full ring online games.Anyways, I will definitely start posting over there...thanks for the invite.

[greenchris 0]

when you make a thread in strategy, start off every one withONCE UPON A TIMEcause all your doin is talkin about some poker hand that you encountered. It's like an outlet to vent or get approval or whatever kind of reaction your lookin forstrategy BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I guess you could say that...I look at the strategy forum to have a place to discuss a hand or situation that you've encountered and to see if you made the optimal decision. Something that I am regularly concerned with is trying to see if I not only played a hand in the best possible way, but also whether or not I maximized the amount of money I win from a pot I take down. That's one poker strategy topic I'm always concerned with.From your recent posts I would venture a guess that you never discuss poker hands with anyone. If you do, then why not share some of your wisdom in the strategy forum as well. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two from you (and vice versa).PEACE!

[greenchris 0]

Am listening to the commentary on the UB $1 million tourney, and they are discussing the difference of live play vs. online play. For those that are listening to the commentary, they are saying that the general belief that more fishes are in the casinos.For those that are listening to the tournament, the commentary is pretty funny...does anyone know who is doing the commentary?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

now i'm seein why you like to argue so much with meYOUR ONE OF THOSE STRATEGY FCPERS WHO THINKS YOUR SHIIIAT SMELLS LIKE APPLE PIE.I laugh at strategyhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

I'm editing my original reply, as I sober up, down to the goods; Remember before, when you asked if I was drunk? I am, now.Online is still a much tougher game than live, I've told you why. Strategy is good, you suck. Thanks.End of original reply.

[Pupsta 0]

so yeah...uhm...online is fishier than live because online players lack the reading ability in live games, and most live players are really online players....didn't you just contradict yourself and prove a point (an incorrect point, but a point nonetheless)if online players play worse live because of lack of reading ability, and live games are filled with online players, wouldn't that automatically make the live games fishier?not that it matters, because it's obvious that online games are far tougher than live games, for the most part.once again, diabolical, what limits do you think equate between live and online?10/20-20/40 live = 3/6-4/8 online, imo. i want to hear your opinion on this...although i'm sure the response i get is "OMGZ I WOMEN SO MUCH AND I LIVE IN LA AND I PLAY MORE POKAR THAN YOU AND VEGAS SUX0RZ AND ONLINE IS BAD AND POKERTRACKER IS THE DEVIL AND I CAN BEAT YOU FOR ONE BRAZILIAN DOLARS HEADZUP!!1111112231231231~!!!!"

[MrJones 0]

mr. Jones....................................... my young aspiring pro.you don't live in LA I take it.This is the Poker Capital of the World.No shiiatnot VegasI see alot here.

background: California Casino $200 buy in, 2/5 are the blinds.  7 people limp in. ($35) Flop = TT6 / Small blind leads out with $5, fold, fold, call. The cutoff raises to $50, the SB pushes $200 total, now, the guy who just called on the flop, calls, the cutoff guy folds. The SB has T8, and the caller, has 97. No flush draw, nothing. So, with $10 invested total, 5 preflop, 5 on the flop, he put in $200 more on a gutshot, on a fuken paired board. Flat calls it. You will never see that online.  Another hand goes like this:  I get JJ on the button, folds around to me. I raise to $25, 5x BB raise, cause I know fishy to my left never lays a hand down. He calls of course and the BB calls also.  Flop = 994. Big blind leads out $25, I raise to $50, the fish flat calls it. The BB folds. Now I'm of course thinking wtf!? Flat call $50? Two hearts on the flop, so I put him on the flush draw, now with implied odds, he isn't getting a price even. But whatever, the turn brings a heart so I'm like censored, but I lead out $50 anyways cause he's such a fish and I have the J hearts back up. He calls, river is a ten, I check he checks I show he mucks. What the censored could he have called with? I don't even know.

yeah, I actually live in Scottsdale AZ and used to live in LA. LA CASINO PLAYERS BLOW ASS HOLE. THEY CANT PLAY AT ALL. I WOULD PULL $200K / YEAR PLAYING $2K NL THERE, I CAN BARELY BREAK EVEN IN $2K NL ONLINE!Ok, I'm done with this post because you are obviously ignorant, and wrong. And you won't agree with me no matter what I say. All I can say is that casino players are a lot worse than online players. ESPECIALLY FOR STAKES THAT MATTER!!! Sure there is a ton of donkeys at .25/.50 NL, but I'm talking about 10/20 limit, we would tear em all apart. Why did someone else post about live casino fish in omaha? Fact is people who know jack sh i t dont go online for fun but they do go to a casino. People play online lose their $100 in like 1 hour say fvck this its rigged and leave but casinos they go back and back cause its more fun to play live and meet people.

[MrJones 0]

Oh yeah, LA the poker capital of the world. Laugh my FUKING ASS OFF! Yeah mofuggen right. LA is renowned for the worst games in the world. Like people say yeah man you gotta come out to cali and play its the softest games you will find ALL THE TIME!Now lets look at Freddy Deeb's parlay in the LA casinos, against the good players.If he didn’t take chances, Freddy never would have got rolling in poker. Flashback, to 1987: Freddy gets into a big argument with his ex-wife. Now, he has a suitcase packed and a hotel booked for a week. A bit on tilt, he heads to a casino after winning $8,000 in a no-limit hold’em game. That was big money in 1987. “I went crazy and blew it all,” he said. Now, in an ultimate state of limbo, he’s at the bar having a beer. A friend asks him if he knows that seven-card stud and hold’em has just been legalized in Los Angeles, and the games are full of fish. “He told me I should go to L.A. with him,” Deeb said, “and I told him I couldn’t, because I was broke.” His friend told him not to worry about the money, and since Freddy was already packed and had nothing better to do, he got his suitcase and checked out of his hotel, and within minutes they were on their way to the City of Angels. To this day, the California poker action that Deeb waltzed into during the late 1980s remains unprecedented. “I’m telling you, that boom was the biggest boom poker has ever seen,” he exclaimed. “It made today’s boom look like nothing.” When Freddy and friend walked into The Bicycle Club (now The Bicycle Casino), the action was frantic, with nearly a hundred games going, everything from $10-$20 hold’em to stratospheric $200-$400 mixed games. “There were about 25 people on each list,” he said. “That is how crazy it was, and nobody knew what the hell hold’em was. They couldn’t even spell it.”

 If he didn’t take chances, Freddy never would have got rolling in poker. Flashback, to 1987: Freddy gets into a big argument with his ex-wife. Now, he has a suitcase packed and a hotel booked for a week. A bit on tilt, he heads to a casino after winning $8,000 in a no-limit hold’em game. That was big money in 1987. “I went crazy and blew it all,” he said. Now, in an ultimate state of limbo, he’s at the bar having a beer. A friend asks him if he knows that seven-card stud and hold’em has just been legalized in Los Angeles, and the games are full of fish. “He told me I should go to L.A. with him,” Deeb said, “and I told him I couldn’t, because I was broke.” His friend told him not to worry about the money, and since Freddy was already packed and had nothing better to do, he got his suitcase and checked out of his hotel, and within minutes they were on their way to the City of Angels.  With a little loan from his buddy, Freddy had 60 bucks, not a dime more. It was 1 p.m. He sat down in a $3-$6 game and won $400 in an hour and a half. He quit, hoping to perhaps play $10-$20 or $15-$30. As he listed himself for these games, a threehanded $20-$40 game opened up right next to the board. He watched the game for a while. “They were playing so bad, I had to take a shot,” he declared. “The minimum buy-in was $200. I played for about two hours and won about $4,400.” His $60 was now up to about $5,000. He cashed out and then saw a $100-$200 hold’em game. “They were playing horribly,” he said. “The buy-in was $2,000. I didn’t even play for an hour and I was up $24,000. That was big money, money that I never had before.”  He cashed out again and then found himself surveying the big games. “That is my style,” he stated. “When I am winning, I don’t give up.” He found a $200-$400 mixed game, in which they were spreading stud, lowball and hold’em, and he took a seat. “I had never played lowball before in my life,” he laughed. “The buy-in was $5,000. I played for six hours and eventually they kicked it up to $300-$600. By 5 o’clock in the morning, my bankroll was up to $96,000. I ran $60 up to almost $100,000, and since then, I have never looked back.”

Ok, the players in LA are REAALLLLLY GREAT. HAHAHA.Daniel Negreanu? Care to comment because I know you know me and drawingdead are right and the commerce is probably one of the biggest fish holes in the world.

[JackTenOS 0]

Live.This is not even a question.

i you

Heh.. I you, too. But, really, how is this even debatable?

Because half of the morons answering this question are under 21 and have never been inside a casino (other than that time grandma took em to Circus Circus to win the big stuffed teddy bear). :-)

[JackTenOS 0]

Live.This is not even a question.

i you

Heh.. I you, too. But, really, how is this even debatable?

Because half of the morons answering this question are under 21 and have never been inside a casino (other than that time grandma took em to Circus Circus to win the big stuffed teddy bear). :-)

[HoosierAlum 0]

First off, I live in LA and play a variety of LHE at the local casinos.Here's what I playHawaiian - 8/16 Kill or 15/30Bike - 20/40Commerce - 20/40Hollywood Park - 6/12 or 15/30When I play online here's what I playParty - 5/10UB - 3/6Reason I lower my limits online as compared to live...IMO, not as many fish online (as compared to the total number of players). I would not say this for all the sites, I would definitely say that Party is the fishiest IMO, while I find the 3/6 and 5/10 limits over at UB are solid, generally players are tough over at UB (anyone else have the same observation of UB?). It's tough to find a fish at UB. Anyone that thinks otherwise, please PM some names of some fish over at UB, because for the life of me I can't find any. Once in a while on a Saturday afternoon a fish will show up...the weekend warrior! Other than that, when I play online during the week at UB for the most part I can't find a fish for the life of me, and end up getting frustrated and playing more passive than I reguarly would.I'm going to let some of the SoCal heads in on a little secret...My favorite live game....ahh, the 6/12 at Hollywood. Best time...when the horse races are on (Wednesday through Sunday afternoons). The place is a dump (make sure you eat before you go, the food sucks), but that place is packed with fish. I usually prefer higher limits elsewhere, but mix in horse racing with poker, and you've got yourself a fine recipe for fish stew...GUARANTEED! You watch these guys try to handicap the horses while playing poker...That's one of the softest games in town.When I go to Vegas I hear people saying how crazy the LA poker players are...I tend to agree with them, especially when comparing it to the people that play these same limits in Vegas.Anyways, to answer the question....Fishier live

Good post Chris. To answer your question, yes UB is notorious for having tough ring games. I just play tournaments on UB, and you should do the same. Stick to Party/Pacific/Pokerroom for the best cash games.

[MrJones 0]

I heards UB's 20/20 NL games were some of the easiest on the net. Well maybe not you guys are talking limit. Party is definately where the fish are at. I play at bayoupoker and betonbet (pokerroom skins) for the rakeback. If any of you want to play bayou and get 50% rakeback through neteller let me know. I'm not an affiliate of them or anything I won't benefit but it's a great bonus.

[justblaze 0]

I heards UB's 20/20 NL games were some of the easiest on the net. Well maybe not you guys are talking limit. Party is definately where the fish are at. I play at bayoupoker and betonbet (pokerroom skins) for the rakeback. If any of you want to play bayou and get 50% rakeback through neteller let me know. I'm not an affiliate of them or anything I won't benefit but it's a great bonus.

aaaaaand your true purpose emerges.EDIT: it seems useful to note that anyone signing up for rakeback through an affiliate that is not listed one of the rakeback review sites, and with no credibility on 2+2, is giving away money.

[MrJones 0]

Go to www.totalbluff.com its just a forum like this with smarter people basically. We use bayou a lot and get good bonuses. I don't give 2 shiats if anyone would sign up just saying where I play and why.The whole story behind pokerroom and it's skins is too long to list here.

[fakeusername2 0]

both sides are makeing good points but are missing the point.if sheer numbers of fish are what your looking for it has to be online. theres just way more people playing online at any given moment.even on average it has to be online.However, as far as limits go, online has better play in comparison. (i.e. 10-20 online is tougher than 10-20 live. there are no micro limits live so even the worst players have to start at 2-4 where as online ther is even .01-.02. limits.the original question was alittle to general and i think alot of people are arguing the same point.as far as the mr. jones kid. your funny like a joke.you say this and you say that. if you were to make millions playing live rather than online wtf you doin playin online. and if its cuz you live in south africa, wtf do you know about live play? those bushmen really got no game? if 100-200 is your limit online, play 100-200 at commerce and and i'll lay you 2-1 you get crushed in less than a month depending on your br.

[greenchris 0]

Go to www.totalbluff.com its just a forum like this with smarter people basically. We use bayou a lot and get good bonuses. I don't give 2 shiats if anyone would sign up just saying where I play and why.The whole story behind pokerroom and it's skins is too long to list here.

Mr. Jones, I just sent you a PM regarding the rakeback at Bayou...hit me back!

[Sluggo 0]

The poll is biased. Casinos have fishier players, but online sites have more fish. Thus, I voted online.

[Pokerghost2 0]

The poll is biased. Casinos have fishier players, but online sites have more fish. Thus, I voted online.

at a typical 10 20 table on party, 7 or 8 of us feed on 2 or 3 fish. live, anywhere in AC , u will have 6 or 7 fish at a typical 10 20 table. some of whom barely know the rules. its live and its nowhere near close.

[MrJones 0]

A.) Im 19 so casinos are 2 years off for me.B.) my casino experience just sneaking I guess you would call but i really just walk in a sit down.C.) online is faster more comfortable and i can do it in bed.D.) I am in south africa until february.

[MrJones 0]

I think it's safe to say that in proportion to the amount of players who play online vs the amount of players who play live. More are fish live. But there are more fish online simply because it's unproportional, there is just many more players online in general. party is a real fish tank though... But so is california casinos.

[statedogg 0]

I've read tons of these type topics and often wondered how many people have actually spent significant time playing in a real casino. The answer to this question literally is online, just way more players thus more fish. If the question were implying where is the best place to consistently win, its easily online again, if for no other reason than table selection options. Live games below 5-10 are probably 90% fish. I don't play those limits because you just can't expect to consistently make a profit. Many people will argue that these are the best games to sit, but I'll never buy it. Scott Fishman said the same thing a few months ago on cardplayer. I've argued with a few people at the 4-8 table about how beatable these games are and every dealer has agreed with me. You cant expect to out race 4-6 people to the turn or river and have a TAG style hold up. Somebody always catches something by then. Sure sometimes your big hand holds up and somebody pays you off, but just as many times they catch something and put a hurtin on your stack. Add that to the tips and $5 rake, its not a good game for sustaining a consistent income.6-12 is a good live game about 50% fish, its beatable but a bad night can cost $400 so you have to have a solid bankroll. 10-20 and up is more like 20% fish. I always know at least 5 people at the 10-20, 15-30, or 20-40 games. Its always the same core group with the random tourists. This is the way it is where I live, Biloxi, and I've played enough in Tunica to speak for there too. I have only been to AC once and never to Vegas or LA, so maybe its different out there.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Live games below 5-10 are probably 90% fish. I don't play those limits because you just can't expect to consistently make a profit.

Smash has said it plenty of times, but, it bares repeating...."If you can't beat bad players you can't beat good players either"Just sayin'.

[ggriffin 0]

i won 300 in the two nights i played 3/6 in vegas, but i can't even win at .10/.25 at pokerstars (i know its rigged). so i'd say casinos. but who the hell am i.

[justblaze 0]

Live games below 5-10 are probably 90% fish. I don't play those limits because you just can't expect to consistently make a profit. Many people will argue that these are the best games to sit, but I'll never buy it. Scott Fishman said the same thing a few months ago on cardplayer.

you dont understand how poker works, do you.