Simpleton 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 This post is so stupid, It made me have to take a poop Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Does the FCP online engine burn a card like normal hold em?I recently found out that riverstars, ummm, pokerstars does not burn a card like normal hold em. to most the burn card seems meaningless. However, in the true interest of statistics, the game is fundamentally differant statistically when the X's change, even by 1 or 2 or 3. Each trial is changed by at least 2 percent. Repeated hundreds to thousands of times a great variance is seen. Draw two parralell lines and they continue paralel infinitely. Place the top line 1 to 2 degrees off of the bottom line and eventually the lines are not parralell. Even if the line is just .1 or .2 the variance increases the further you get from the start. I carry a small deck of cards to run hands when i am out and i get bored, so I demonstrated over lunch how hands are played differantly without a burn card to a friend of mine that also plays poker (and is pretty good imo). The premise was that you were playing six-handed Donkey poker and everyone was seeing the flop. Out of about 20 trials only three had the same winner with or without a burn card. However, how the hand played out was completely differant. Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out. Mind you, this was a purely imperical test and semi-bluffing and bluffing was not really taken into account, even though he and I did talk about which hands would semi-bluff. But I would really like to know if the FCP engine burns a card or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Hatchet 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 OP - Stay in school. Or.. give up and flip burgers, you might have enough reasoning skills for that. Link to post Share on other sites
gmanshade 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 The thing is, live poker is live poker. If one wants to simulate the live poker environment accurately then one should simulate all that is possible. If the burn card is not important then why not play seven stud with the first two cards up, the middle 3 down, and the last two up? fundamentally each player gets 3 cards down and four up. It is the same game. Isnt it?But back to the point. Each card is about 1.9231 percent. Meaning at the flop there is a 1.0231 differance. On the turn a 3.8462 differance, On the river a 5.7692 differance. X out of 39 is differant than X out of 40X out of 36 is differant than X out of 37X out of 34 is differant than X out of 36X out of 32 is differant than X out of 35Run a hundred hands yourself and tell me that the same person that would win in brick and mortar would win online without the burn cards? Tell me the hands would play the same?NO. None of the games--HE, Omaha, Stud--use the entire deck, even if you have a full table and everyone takes every possible card.I hope this is a joke. Link to post Share on other sites
Nixed 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 oh when someone says i don't understand statistics and they are erroneous then the facts must come out.quick and dirty statistics are easier but in the world of minutia that is statistics there is a differance from rounding to the fifth or sixth or seventh decimal. probabilities are only about 20% of poker, statistically speaking.don't even get me started about average possibilities in a seven handed game with two players left post flop and calculating odds of making a flush with four parts before the turn absent a read what the pot odds must be to warrant a smooth call.but i forgot you are always right and no else knows what they are talking about, especially when you cannot present any substantial proff that your hypothesis is correct and mine is wrong. just saying i am wrong and calling me stupid suffice to debase any arguement i am making regardless of mathmatics supporting my position.i beieve there is a phrase for you that begins with highly funtional and ends with dee dee dee."Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! 4 out of 5 people know that. " Homer J Simpson Link to post Share on other sites
Gnobby 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hang on a sec... Let me get this straight,it was MAGGIE that shot Mr. Burns?!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 The thing is, live poker is live poker. If one wants to simulate the live poker environment accurately then one should simulate all that is possible. If the burn card is not important then why not play seven stud with the first two cards up, the middle 3 down, and the last two up? fundamentally each player gets 3 cards down and four up. It is the same game. Isnt it?But back to the point. Each card is about 1.9231 percent. Meaning at the flop there is a 1.0231 differance. On the turn a 3.8462 differance, On the river a 5.7692 differance. X out of 39 is differant than X out of 40X out of 36 is differant than X out of 37X out of 34 is differant than X out of 36X out of 32 is differant than X out of 35Run a hundred hands yourself and tell me that the same person that would win in brick and mortar would win online without the burn cards? Tell me the hands would play the same?NO. None of the games--HE, Omaha, Stud--use the entire deck, even if you have a full table and everyone takes every possible card.I hope this is a joke.I'm going to split hairs, a full table of 7 card stud is 8 players so each taking the max would be 56 cards, 4 too many. At least on Full Tilt, the rule is if all the players stay in then the 7th card is dealt face up as a a community card. I've never seen it happen, but it's possible.As for the original poster, it's amazing how somebody that seems reasonably intelligent and has seriously thought about poker can be so completely and utterly wrong. I would love to see his explanation of the odds in a 7 handed game....Zara Link to post Share on other sites
gmanshade 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 dancing lock? Link to post Share on other sites
exdubliner 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 THERE'S THE BURN CARD!lol. classic. Link to post Share on other sites
Ventrick 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 The burn Card would only make a statistical difference if you knew what the burn card was. Statistics in Poker are calculated using the number of Known cards vs the number of Unknown cards. The burn card is an unknown whether it is in or not in the deck. Link to post Share on other sites
ilovejulie 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Does the FCP online engine burn a card like normal hold em?I recently found out that riverstars, ummm, pokerstars does not burn a card like normal hold em. to most the burn card seems meaningless. However, in the true interest of statistics, the game is fundamentally differant statistically when the X's change, even by 1 or 2 or 3. Each trial is changed by at least 2 percent. Repeated hundreds to thousands of times a great variance is seen. Draw two parralell lines and they continue paralel infinitely. Place the top line 1 to 2 degrees off of the bottom line and eventually the lines are not parralell. Even if the line is just .1 or .2 the variance increases the further you get from the start. I carry a small deck of cards to run hands when i am out and i get bored, so I demonstrated over lunch how hands are played differantly without a burn card to a friend of mine that also plays poker (and is pretty good imo). The premise was that you were playing six-handed Donkey poker and everyone was seeing the flop. Out of about 20 trials only three had the same winner with or without a burn card. However, how the hand played out was completely differant. Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out. Mind you, this was a purely imperical test and semi-bluffing and bluffing was not really taken into account, even though he and I did talk about which hands would semi-bluff. But I would really like to know if the FCP engine burns a card or not.jfarrell20, is that you??? Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 probabilities are only about 20% of poker, statistically speaking. HA HA HA HA HA HA!This stuff is gold, Jerry, gold! Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 dancing lock?No, this post is just too classic for the lock. Link to post Share on other sites
freekeffect 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 You are statistically dumb as hell Link to post Share on other sites
silentbob 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yeffy, that's one of the funniest posts I've read in ages.Thanks for the good laugh. Dude I can't play at my local casino anymore. The standard shuffle there used to be riffle riffle box riffle cut. Now it's riffle box riffle riffle cut. Think about it. If you riffle then box it completely changes the outcome of the hands. I am dealt totally different cards then I used to get dealt. Since they made this change I played 20 hands and didn't get aces once. But last week when they were shuffling the other way I played 20 hands and got aces twice. That just proves it. The box shuffle after the first riffle changes the coangular distribution of the cards by 3%. That means after the second two riffles each card is effected by an increasing variable equal to Y where Y is the angular coefficient directly related to the dealers hat size. If you multiply the coangular distributed position of the card I would have received by Y then I need to move 5 seats to my left after each hand in order to receive the card I should have received in the first place. But then my second card is placed in the 4th seat to the right of the original seat I was dealt in so I need to move there to get the next card. This is the only possible way to maintain the integrity of the game otherwise poker will be ruined forever. Since the floormen wont let me run around the table in circles grabbing those exact cards I can no longer play live poker. Link to post Share on other sites
ilovejulie 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Dude I can't play at my local casino anymore. The standard shuffle there used to be riffle riffle box riffle cut. Now it's riffle box riffle riffle cut. Think about it. If you riffle then box it completely changes the outcome of the hands. I am dealt totally different cards then I used to get dealt. Since they made this change I played 20 hands and didn't get aces once. But last week when they were shuffling the other way I played 20 hands and got aces twice. That just proves it. The box shuffle after the first riffle changes the coangular distribution of the cards by 3%. That means after the second two riffles each card is effected by an increasing variable equal to Y where Y is the angular coefficient directly related to the dealers hat size. If you multiply the coangular distributed position of the card I would have received by Y then I need to move 5 seats to my left after each hand in order to receive the card I should have received in the first place. But then my second card is placed in the 4th seat to the right of the original seat I was dealt in so I need to move there to get the next card. This is the only possible way to maintain the integrity of the game otherwise poker will be ruined forever. Since the floormen wont let me run around the table in circles grabbing those exact cards I can no longer play live poker.Bravo, sir. Bravo... Link to post Share on other sites
EStormOk 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The OP must sit in the corner of the room with all the lights on in his house, never falling asleep. Anyone so paranoid to think about whether the burn card is screwing him or not, leads a dismal life.EStormOk Link to post Share on other sites
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