should stanley tookie williams be executed?

[TheIceman05 0]

No. Go back and read what I wrote earlier and I'll think about it. As i previously stated, not only did he kill people, but

He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast.

It's ok, he just doesn't get it. Most people don't anymore. Let him get back to scraping that Kerry/Edwards sticker off his bumper, before the cold weather hits.

Iceman: "Someone please give me an argument in support of the death penalty besides, 'he killed people, so he deserves to die.'"BMWGUY- "He killed LOTS of people, and he mentored people that kill people. That's the same as killing LOTS AND LOTS of people. So he deserves to die."Iceman: "I don't think you understand what I'm saying... I'm not supporting his actions, nor am I suggesting he's not a heinous criminal. I'm only suggesting that the death penalty itself is inherently unjust- in its application and its theory- and that it sinks to a level of hypocrisy we as a society should stri-"Insano: "Dude, you're a liberal faggot. Go back to being a hippie, you liberal, crybaby pussy. I bet you voted for the guy who LOST the last election, whereas I voted for the man who will in all likelihood be judged by history to be one of the worst Presidents of all time."Iceman: "You're right. You're totally right. You all win. Your faculties of logic and debate astound me, and I'm left enthralled by your magni-"BMWGUY + INSANO (together): "Our dicks are so gigantic and magnificent. They shimmer."Iceman, hanging head: "(sigh)"Ice

[teneight 1]

if you voted "no", i feel bad for you. Look at what this fag william has done. The 7-eleven is only like 1 mile away from my home. this guy deserves to die and I will be happy when he does. I don't care what he wrote..what he has done in jail..he needs to be killed for his actions ASAP. =================The 7-Eleven Robbery-Murder of Albert OwensOn February 28, 1979, Stanley Williams murdered Albert Lewis Owens during a robbery of a 7-Eleven convenience store in Whittier, California. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.Late on the evening of February 27, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams introduced his friend Alfred Coward, a.k.a. "Blackie," to a man named Darryl. A short time later, Darryl, driving a brown station wagon, drove Williams to the residence of James Garrett. Coward followed in his 1969 Cadillac. (Trial Transcript (TT) 2095-2097). Stanley Williams often stayed at the Garrett residence and kept some of his belongings there, including his shotgun. (TT 1673, 1908).At the Garrett residence, Williams went inside and returned carrying a twelve-gauge shotgun. (TT 2097-2098). Darryl and Williams, with Coward following in his car, later drove to another residence, where they obtained a PCP-laced cigarette, which the three men shared.Williams, Coward and Darryl then went to the residence of Tony Sims. (TT 2109). These four men then discussed where they could go in Pomona to make some money. (TT 2111). The four men then went to yet another residence where they smoked more PCP. (TT 2113-2116).While at this location, Williams left the other men and returned with a .22 caliber handgun, which he also put in the station wagon. (TT 2117-2118). Williams then told Coward, Darryl and Sims they should go to Pomona. In response, Coward and Sims entered the Cadillac, Williams and Darryl entered the station wagon, and both cars traveled on the freeway toward Pomona. (TT 2118-2119).The four men exited the freeway near Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). They drove to a Stop-N-Go market and, at Williams' direction, Darryl and Sims entered the store to commit a robbery. At the time, Darryl was armed with the .22 caliber handgun. (TT 2117-2218; Tony Sims' Parole Hearing Dated July 17, 1997).Johnny Garcia Escapes DeathThe clerk at the Stop-N-Go market, Johnny Garcia, had just finished mopping the floor when he observed a station wagon and four black men at the door to the market. (TT 2046-2048). Two of the men entered the market. (TT 2048). One of the men went down an aisle while the other approached Garcia.The man that approached Garcia asked for a cigarette. Garcia gave the man a cigarette and lit it for him. After approximately three to four minutes, both men left the market without carrying out the planned robbery. (TT 2049-2050).He Would Show Them HowWilliams became upset that Darryl and Sims did not commit the robbery. Williams told the men that they would find another place to rob. Williams said that at the next location all of them would go inside and he would show them how to commit a robbery.Coward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-Eleven market located at 10437 Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. (TT 2146).Albert Owens KilledWhen Darryl and Sims entered the 7-Eleven, Owens put the broom and dust pan down and followed them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. (TT 2146-2152). As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens and told him "shut up and keep walking." (TT 2154). While pointing a shotgun at Owens' back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. (TT 2154).Once inside the storage room, Williams, at gunpoint, ordered Owens to "lay down, mother f*****." Williams then chambered a round into the shotgun. Williams then fired the round into the security monitor. Williams then chambered a second round and fired the round into Owens' back as he lay face down on the floor of the storage room. Williams then fired again into Owens' back. (TT 2162).Near Contact WoundBoth of the shotgun wounds were fatal. (TT 2086). The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was "very close" to Owens' body when he was shot. One of the two wounds was described as ". . . a near contact wound." (TT 2078).After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted them approximately $120.00. (TT 2280).'Killing All White People'Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get something to eat. When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people." (TT 2189, 2193).Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens. Williams said, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens' death. (TT 2195-2197==========================The Brookhaven Robbery-Murders of the Yang FamilyOn March 11, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams murdered three members of the Yang family at their motel in Los Angeles. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.At approximately 5:00 a.m. on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. (Trial Ttranscript (TT) 1411). After entering the public lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office.Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang's wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang's daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location. (TT 1406-1442, 1562-1563, 1677-1720, 1915-1927).Robert Yang was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel's office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of his mother or sister screaming, followed by gun shots. (TT 1409, 1411, 1433).Son Finds Family ShotWhen Robert entered the motel office he found his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot. (TT 1412-1413). Robert observed that the cash register was open and money was missing. (TT 1414). It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel and the murder of the three members of the Yang family netted Stanley Williams approximately $100.Robert Yang called 9-1-1. Two deputies from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department arrived within approximately ten minutes. (TT 1416). When the deputies entered the motel they noticed a strong odor of gun powder. (TT 1500). The deputies observed that the door leading from the public entrance into Yang's private living quarters had been forced open and the doorjamb was split open and the woodwork was torn away from the doorjamb. (TT 1508).Gasping For AirAs they entered, they saw Yen-I Yang lying on a sofa. He was "soaked with blood," "gasping for air, and making gurgling noises." (TT 1501). They also saw the bloodied body of Tsai-Shai Yang. She was making "gurgling noises" and "gasping for air," with "her knees drawn up under her, and her face down on the floor," as if she had been forced to bow down before being killed. (TT 1502). Lastly, the deputies found the body of Yee-Chen Lin lying on the hallway floor.According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I's left arm, fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels.Evidence Found at SceneMoreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I's liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang's wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I's body. Despite the severity of these wounds, Yen-I clung to life. He was transported from the scene by paramedics to Daniel Freeman Hospital where he died at 6:53 a.m.Yee-Chen Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet. Despite the truly horrific nature of the wound Stanley Williams inflicted upon her, Yee-Chen also clung to life. She was transported from the scene by paramedics to Centinela Hospital where she died at 7:36 a.m.Shot at Close RangeTsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. (TT 1453).The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the naval. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai's body when the shot that caused this wound was fired. (TT 1454).[/b]

[gkunit20 1]

if you voted "no", i feel bad for you. Look at what this fag william has done. The 7-eleven is only like 1 mile away from my home. this guy deserves to die and I will be happy when he does. I don't care what he wrote..what he has done in jail..he needs to be killed for his actions ASAP. =================The 7-Eleven Robbery-Murder of Albert OwensOn February 28, 1979, Stanley Williams murdered Albert Lewis Owens during a robbery of a 7-Eleven convenience store in Whittier, California. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.Late on the evening of February 27, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams introduced his friend Alfred Coward, a.k.a. "Blackie," to a man named Darryl. A short time later, Darryl, driving a brown station wagon, drove Williams to the residence of James Garrett. Coward followed in his 1969 Cadillac. (Trial Transcript (TT) 2095-2097). Stanley Williams often stayed at the Garrett residence and kept some of his belongings there, including his shotgun. (TT 1673, 1908).At the Garrett residence, Williams went inside and returned carrying a twelve-gauge shotgun. (TT 2097-2098). Darryl and Williams, with Coward following in his car, later drove to another residence, where they obtained a PCP-laced cigarette, which the three men shared.Williams, Coward and Darryl then went to the residence of Tony Sims. (TT 2109). These four men then discussed where they could go in Pomona to make some money. (TT 2111). The four men then went to yet another residence where they smoked more PCP. (TT 2113-2116).While at this location, Williams left the other men and returned with a .22 caliber handgun, which he also put in the station wagon. (TT 2117-2118). Williams then told Coward, Darryl and Sims they should go to Pomona. In response, Coward and Sims entered the Cadillac, Williams and Darryl entered the station wagon, and both cars traveled on the freeway toward Pomona. (TT 2118-2119).The four men exited the freeway near Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). They drove to a Stop-N-Go market and, at Williams' direction, Darryl and Sims entered the store to commit a robbery. At the time, Darryl was armed with the .22 caliber handgun. (TT 2117-2218; Tony Sims' Parole Hearing Dated July 17, 1997).Johnny Garcia Escapes DeathThe clerk at the Stop-N-Go market, Johnny Garcia, had just finished mopping the floor when he observed a station wagon and four black men at the door to the market. (TT 2046-2048). Two of the men entered the market. (TT 2048). One of the men went down an aisle while the other approached Garcia.The man that approached Garcia asked for a cigarette. Garcia gave the man a cigarette and lit it for him. After approximately three to four minutes, both men left the market without carrying out the planned robbery. (TT 2049-2050).He Would Show Them HowWilliams became upset that Darryl and Sims did not commit the robbery. Williams told the men that they would find another place to rob. Williams said that at the next location all of them would go inside and he would show them how to commit a robbery.Coward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-Eleven market located at 10437 Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. (TT 2146).Albert Owens KilledWhen Darryl and Sims entered the 7-Eleven, Owens put the broom and dust pan down and followed them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. (TT 2146-2152). As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens and told him "shut up and keep walking." (TT 2154). While pointing a shotgun at Owens' back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. (TT 2154).Once inside the storage room, Williams, at gunpoint, ordered Owens to "lay down, mother f*****." Williams then chambered a round into the shotgun. Williams then fired the round into the security monitor. Williams then chambered a second round and fired the round into Owens' back as he lay face down on the floor of the storage room. Williams then fired again into Owens' back. (TT 2162).Near Contact WoundBoth of the shotgun wounds were fatal. (TT 2086). The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was "very close" to Owens' body when he was shot. One of the two wounds was described as ". . . a near contact wound." (TT 2078).After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted them approximately $120.00. (TT 2280).'Killing All White People'Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get something to eat. When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people." (TT 2189, 2193).Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens. Williams said, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens' death. (TT 2195-2197==========================The Brookhaven Robbery-Murders of the Yang FamilyOn March 11, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams murdered three members of the Yang family at their motel in Los Angeles. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.At approximately 5:00 a.m. on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. (Trial Ttranscript (TT) 1411). After entering the public lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office.Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang's wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang's daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location. (TT 1406-1442, 1562-1563, 1677-1720, 1915-1927).Robert Yang was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel's office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of his mother or sister screaming, followed by gun shots. (TT 1409, 1411, 1433).Son Finds Family ShotWhen Robert entered the motel office he found his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot. (TT 1412-1413). Robert observed that the cash register was open and money was missing. (TT 1414). It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel and the murder of the three members of the Yang family netted Stanley Williams approximately $100.Robert Yang called 9-1-1. Two deputies from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department arrived within approximately ten minutes. (TT 1416). When the deputies entered the motel they noticed a strong odor of gun powder. (TT 1500). The deputies observed that the door leading from the public entrance into Yang's private living quarters had been forced open and the doorjamb was split open and the woodwork was torn away from the doorjamb. (TT 1508).Gasping For AirAs they entered, they saw Yen-I Yang lying on a sofa. He was "soaked with blood," "gasping for air, and making gurgling noises." (TT 1501). They also saw the bloodied body of Tsai-Shai Yang. She was making "gurgling noises" and "gasping for air," with "her knees drawn up under her, and her face down on the floor," as if she had been forced to bow down before being killed. (TT 1502). Lastly, the deputies found the body of Yee-Chen Lin lying on the hallway floor.According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I's left arm, fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels.Evidence Found at SceneMoreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I's liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang's wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I's body. Despite the severity of these wounds, Yen-I clung to life. He was transported from the scene by paramedics to Daniel Freeman Hospital where he died at 6:53 a.m.Yee-Chen Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet. Despite the truly horrific nature of the wound Stanley Williams inflicted upon her, Yee-Chen also clung to life. She was transported from the scene by paramedics to Centinela Hospital where she died at 7:36 a.m.Shot at Close RangeTsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. (TT 1453).The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the naval. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai's body when the shot that caused this wound was fired. (TT 1454).[/b]

Let him fry :!:

[TheIceman05 0]

if you voted "no", i feel bad for you. Look at what this fag william has done. The 7-eleven is only like 1 mile away from my home. this guy deserves to die and I will be happy when he does.

QEDIce

[insano 0]

No. Go back and read what I wrote earlier and I'll think about it. As i previously stated, not only did he kill people, but

He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast.

It's ok, he just doesn't get it. Most people don't anymore. Let him get back to scraping that Kerry/Edwards sticker off his bumper, before the cold weather hits.

Iceman: "Someone please give me an argument in support of the death penalty besides, 'he killed people, so he deserves to die.'"BMWGUY- "He killed LOTS of people, and he mentored people that kill people. That's the same as killing LOTS AND LOTS of people. So he deserves to die."Iceman: "I don't think you understand what I'm saying... I'm not supporting his actions, nor am I suggesting he's not a heinous criminal. I'm only suggesting that the death penalty itself is inherently unjust- in its application and its theory- and that it sinks to a level of hypocrisy we as a society should stri-"Insano: "Dude, you're a liberal faggot. Go back to being a hippie, you liberal, crybaby pussy. I bet you voted for the guy who LOST the last election, whereas I voted for the man who will in all likelihood be judged by history to be one of the worst Presidents of all time."Iceman: "You're right. You're totally right. You all win. Your faculties of logic and debate astound me, and I'm left enthralled by your magni-"BMWGUY + INSANO (together): "Our dicks are so gigantic and magnificent. They shimmer."Iceman, hanging head: "(sigh)"Ice

If you think that Bush is a worse president than JFK or Clinton, then who is the one that's misinformed?Edit: Oh, and how on the money was I?

[teneight 1]

if you voted "no", i feel bad for you. Look at what this censored william has done. The 7-eleven is only like 1 mile away from my home. this guy deserves to die and I will be happy when he does.

QEDIce

QED????

[TheIceman05 0]

If you think that Bush is a worse president than JFK or Clinton, then who is the one that's misinformed?

What? Jesus, you. Do people really think George Bush is a great president, and that Clinton was some kind of monkey in a beanie? I always just assumed people listed to reason/ paid attention. This is some kind of Young Republican hazing thing, right? They make you go out into public and defend George Bush? And you can't laugh or anything? Gotta keep a straight face, and pretend he was a better president than the man that preceeded him, despite the mountain of overwhelmingly convincing evidence to the controversy? Either way, I feel bad for you

[teneight 1]

please, never put "bust" with the word "Great" in the same sentence I think he should get a lethal injection next to stanley williams tomorrow morning

[TheIceman05 0]

if you voted "no", i feel bad for you. Look at what this censored william has done. The 7-eleven is only like 1 mile away from my home. this guy deserves to die and I will be happy when he does.

QEDIce

QED????

I'm trying to prove that people are relying on their guts, their visceral feelings of hatred for a man who has done despicable things, to justify executions, isntead of dispassionately or reasonably engaging in a discourse about the validity of such a system. And then you just made a visceral, hatred laden post about how he's a horrible person, so OBVIOUSLY he should be executed and that capital punishment is justified, ignoring reason and logic in favor of, "Duh, he's a fag and deserves to die!"Which I believe proves my point, so...Quod erat demonstratumQED, motha****as.Ice

[TheIceman05 0]

please, never put "bust" with the word "Great" in the same sentence I think he should get a lethal injection next to stanley williams tomorrow morning

I think I can get behind that. we agree on one thing, at least.here, hereIce

[teneight 1]

. He killed numerous people. he has brought nothing but pain to this world. He dosen't deserve to live. teneight

[insano 0]

If you think that Bush is a worse president than JFK or Clinton, then who is the one that's misinformed?

What? Jesus, you. Do people really think George Bush is a great president, and that Clinton was some kind of monkey in a beanie? I always just assumed people listed to reason/ paid attention. This is some kind of Young Republican hazing thing, right? They make you go out into public and defend George Bush? And you can't laugh or anything? Gotta keep a straight face, and pretend he was a better president than the man that preceeded him, despite the mountain of overwhelmingly convincing evidence to the controversy? Either way, I feel bad for you

Oh grow up. Yes everyone is out to get you because your a liberal... Please.I support the president because I think he's done a good job with an amazingly difficult situation thrown at him. He did not cause 911, but he made damn sure it wasn't going to happen again.The reason I said Clinton was a worse president (which I believe he was) is because of the thousands of things he screwed up / ignored while in office. Depending on how informed you are, you probobly know about them but chose to ignore them.

[TheIceman05 0]

. He killed numerous people. he has brought nothing but pain to this world. He dosen't deserve to live. teneight

If this were in the form of a logical argument, it would probably look like this1) He killed numerous people.2) He has brought nothing but pain to this world. _________________________________________3) He deserves to dieNow, the big problem here, for me, is how 1 and 2 inexorably lead to 3. You haven't tied 1 and 2 to 3. You just stated them in order. It's like saying this.1) He killed numerous people.2) He has brought nothing but pain to this world. _________________________________________3) Arby's Roast Beef is so delicious!Even if Arby's roast beef is absofuckinglutely delicious, we can't draw that conclusion from the above premises.My argument would take into account things like "systemic inequity, especially regarding the unequal application of the death penalty," among other things. In a vaccuum- all real-world issues aside- would I be happy if he were suddenly snuffed out of existence? Oh, you bet. But that doesn't mean it's right. Ice

[TheIceman05 0]

Oh grow up. Yes everyone is out to get you because your a liberal... Please.I support the president because I think he's done a good job with an amazingly difficult situation thrown at him. He did not cause 911, but he made damn sure it wasn't going to happen again.The reason I said Clinton was a worse president (which I believe he was) is because of the thousands of things he screwed up / ignored while in office. Depending on how informed you are, you probobly know about them but chose to ignore them.

I'm pretty well-versed in mid-late 20th century politics, so this could be a fun discussion.What do you think were Clinton's biggest shortcomings? What issues did you feel he and his staff ignored/screwed up?Why do you believe George Bush bears no responsiblitly for the events of 9/11? What parts of his response to the attacks do you find laudable? Cheers,IcePS- I don't know what you were talking about with the bolded portion. I think you were responding to my previous post, in which my goal was to paint your comments about clinton/jfk vs. bush as patently ridiculous conservative nonsense.

[teneight 1]

your example dosen't make any sense. he deserves to die for killing other people that didn't deserve to die. easy as that. no way around itkill that mother fucker!that's my opinion and no one is going to change it. At first, i felt bad for the guy, but then, I read what he did. now i agree with him been on the death penaltyteneight

[KingAustin 0]

your example dosen't make any sense. he deserves to die for killing other people that didn't deserve to die. easy as that. no way around itkill that mother fucker!that's my opinion and no one is going to change it. At first, i felt bad for the guy, but then, I read what he did. now i agree with him been on the death penaltyteneight

Not that congress didnt have anything to do with the decision to go to war...oh, wait...

[TheIceman05 0]

your example dosen't make any sense. he deserves to die for killing other people that didn't deserve to die. easy as that. no way around itkill that mother fucker!

Stunning. I feel silly now. I can't believe I didn't think of that.QED, redux.Ice

[teneight 1]

iceman..please explain your arguement..please. I want to hear your side on why stanley williams shouldnt be killed?

[NortonFan 0]

. He killed numerous people. he has brought nothing but pain to this world. He dosen't deserve to live. teneight

If this were in the form of a logical argument, it would probably look like this1) He killed numerous people.2) He has brought nothing but pain to this world. _________________________________________3) He deserves to dieNow, the big problem here, for me, is how 1 and 2 inexorably lead to 3. You haven't tied 1 and 2 to 3. You just stated them in order. It's like saying this.1) He killed numerous people.2) He has brought nothing but pain to this world. _________________________________________3) Arby's Roast Beef is so delicious!Even if Arby's roast beef is absofuckinglutely delicious, we can't draw that conclusion from the above premises.My argument would take into account things like "systemic inequity, especially regarding the unequal application of the death penalty," among other things. In a vaccuum- all real-world issues aside- would I be happy if he were suddenly snuffed out of existence? Oh, you bet. But that doesn't mean it's right. Ice

Wow, did you actually just write that? Arby's roast beef is so awesome that you can draw conclusions from anything on how awesome it is.

[princeof56k 0]

I'm still missing why the death penalty is in any way better than life in prison without parole.I think life in prison is better primarily because mistakes can always be reversed. At the same time life in prison still removes that indivual from society and serves as a good deterant to crime (in both of these respects life in prison is no worse than the death penalty). Throw in the obvious moral arguments like it appears to be wrong to kill someone who is locked up and not a threat to anyone (and in essence basically defensless), and it seems like life in prison is the better alternative.Does anyone here want to state some sensible reason why the death penalty is better?

[TheIceman05 0]

iceman..please explain your arguement..please. I want to hear your side on why stanley williams shouldnt be killed?

Since you've managed to conduct yourself in a respectful manner while engaging in this discourse, I'll oblige you cowboy. Here's a wee bit of my thoughts on the process....I think you miss the entire point of the death penalty debate.You're speaking in broad strokes that paint the picture too sloppily.There are 2 ways to justify the death penalty1) Retributivism- ie, lex talionis, an eye for an eye. Retribution deals with the issue of desert. In our society, almost everyone agrees that GOOD deeds should be REWARDED, and BAD deeds should be PUNISHED, and it should be done proportionally. I won't get into it, but the question of "well, why?" is quite interesting. Most death penalty advocates believe that there MUST be some extreme form of punishment that equates with the most extremely bad deeds. We can all agree that 3-counts of armed robbery and 4 counts of assault is nowhere NEAR as bad as 2 counts of first degree murder, but they usually yield the same sentence: Life in prison. Most death penalty advocates believe there has to be something reserved for the most HEINOUS of crimes.2) Deterrence- both specific and general. Obviously, the specific component is slightly more effective with the death penalty (how can you commit anymore crimes if you're dead?) than life imprisonment, but by a miniscule margin.General deterrence is the idea that the THREAT of a penalty- in this case, the death penalty- will act as a deterrent to crime. The death penalty doesn't make much of a difference, though, (though many people will argue otherwise, incorrectly) so we're left with number 1.I'm a staunchly anti-death penalty person. Our legal system is so imperfect, and the death penalty can take a multitude of small errors and prejudices, and exacerbate them to a degree so egregious as to be inhumane. We execute minorities significantly more frequently than their white counterparts for the same crimes. Same with the poor. Is it okay to make a mistake in these cases, especially when we can patently disregard the utilitarian benefits (deterrence), or lackthereof?I don't take a high-and-mighty stance with the death penalty, but anybody who jumps to a quick, gut-based decision would be well-served to think the matter through more carefully. There are so many facets to the debate, that a blanket statement like, "He doesn't deserve to live" doesn't cut it.ALSOAll the arguments in this thread boil down to, "Dude... killing someone is such a horrible thing to do. Whoever kills someone should be killed."I just don't see anyone saying why. You can make all the emotional appeals you want ("i wish the offenders had to spend TEN MINUTES with the victim's family"), but they're irrelevant. The law is dispassionate for exactly this reason.To me it comes down to these 2 things:1) When the state says, "You have committed an atrocity by taking life. Now, I shall take your life." it seems hypocritical. We should strive to better than that, to more as a PEOPLE than that. We lose a bit of our moral authority when we subject a man to the same to which he subjected another, just because it feels good. Something should separate us from the animals that commit these heinous crimes.Or something like that. Blah blah, I could go on and on.Ice

[teneight 1]

thank you iceman. i understand were you're coming from.

[TheIceman05 0]

thank you iceman. i understand were you're coming from.

Awesome! Now we're buds.High five for pals!(High five)Friends and buds and pals.Ice

[Mr Vayne 0]

Oh jesus christ you're drowning your argument in all of your own liberal bullshit! So what if he's writing books about how one SHOULDN'T be in a gang. He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast. I bet you the Crypts (sp?) aren't reading those books, and regardless of what he's doing right now, he murdered four people earlier in his life. I don't give a goddamn if he's curing cancer at this particular second. He's getting what he deserves at midnight tonight, and justice will be served for him wrongfully taking four lives from other people. So swallow your liberal crap for a second and realize what justice is you prick.

Well Said!! for you sappy commute his sentence folksand HERE

[teneight 1]

2hrs and 33 minutes until justice is served!