should stanley tookie williams be executed?

[insano 0]

Sorry I'm late chiming in with my opinion on this...I was out late shooting somebody, and then on the way home I stopped by the Food Shelter and handed out meals so that I wouldn't get in trouble with the cops.Hope you all understand.

[Fphillips 0]

Sorry I'm late chiming in with my opinion on this...I was out late shooting somebody, and then on the way home I stopped by the Food Shelter and handed out meals so that I wouldn't get in trouble with the cops.Hope you all understand.

NH

[bmwguy525 0]

LoL touche'!!

[princeof56k 0]

I wont respond to RuffRidr's post up there as a couple of other guys already said what I would've said anyways.But... why do people think that some of these criminals are living a better life in a maximum security prison than being free on the outside? After all, people are always trying to get out of prison. Even Williams himself has delared his innocence for years trying to get out. Doesnt sound like a good place to me where everyone wants to leave.That part of the pro-death-penalty argument seems just crazy to me and has me completely confused.And btw, when I made this pole I assumed (incorrectly) that most people would be opposed to the death penalty. I expected the voting to be totally reversed. Guess I learn something new everyday.

[bmwguy525 0]

Guess I learn something new everyday.

Like the fact that you're a hippie liberal?

[Fphillips 0]

I wont respond to RuffRidr's post up there as a couple of other guys already said what I would've said anyways.But... why do people think that some of these criminals are living a better life in a maximum security prison than being free on the outside? After all, people are always trying to get out of prison. Even Williams himself has delared his innocence for years trying to get out. Doesnt sound like a good place to me where everyone wants to leave.That part of the pro-death-penalty argument seems just crazy to me and has me completely confused.And btw, when I made this pole I assumed (incorrectly) that most people would be opposed to the death penalty. I expected the voting to be totally reversed. Guess I learn something new everyday.

Whats confusing?

[princeof56k 0]

Whats confusing?

How someone can actually think life in San Quentin is better than life on the outside? do you disagree?

[princeof56k 0]

Guess I learn something new everyday.

Like the fact that you're a hippie liberal?

Actually I vote conservative on a majority of issues. Just not this issue.And with the exception of the death penalty, I would actually like the sentences for our criminals to be tougher than are today (like having rapists and child molestors get life with no chance of parole).

[bmwguy525 0]

Whats confusing?

How someone can actually think life in San Quentin is better than life on the outside? do you disagree?

With all due respect to the fact that I'm not sure which issue that you're addressing here, SHOULD he have a better life than life in prison?

[princeof56k 0]

SHOULD he have a better life than life in prison?

NO. I am in favor of life in prison.I can see where I confused you. Some people have argued that some criminals actually improve their living standards when they go to prison. I disagree with that.

[bmwguy525 0]

There are, in fact, some criminals who have admitted that they continue to commit crimes solely for the fact that they'd rather be in jail than leading a poor life outside of prison. There's been research and reports on this topic, and it has been covered in shows such as 60 minutes several times. I wish I had time to provide some evidence to back my claim, but I'm at work. If you look it up there's bound to be a bunch of stuff online about it.

[Rybo 0]

It's interesting that our culture sees the death pentaly as the ultimate punishment. For the Romans, life in prison was a far crueler notion.

Yeah, I'm sure the romans had TV, 3 square meals a day, excersise equipment, libraries, methods for furthuring education...give me a fuckin' break comparing 1st century rome and modern prisons

Same with the Japanese up until recently. All moral arguments aside, by executing someone the government is saying that killing is ok, even if only in certain circumstances. It's officially sanctioning it, and thus lowering the value of a life in the minds of every single person in the country.

Our government does say killing is ok in some situatins...thus the manslaughter plea, or killing in self defense.And BTW, he is being killed by lethal injection, so all the "fry 'em" quotes, although funny at times, are a bit off base

In my opinion it would be much more beneficial to sociologists, psychologists, and criminologists (sorry about the gists) if we were to study these extreme offenders and gain a better understanding of the origin of their pathologies rather than send them off to die, often when there may be serious doubts about their guilt. The benefit to society would be much greater in identifying the conditions that lead to the development of such mindsets and thereby taking preventive measures.The case of stanley williams is particularly interesting in this respect as the insight he could offer into gang violence could be extremely valuable

He's been there for nearly 20 years already soa.) All the 'gists' have already taken advantage of that factorb.) They deemed him an unworthy case subject

[Rybo 0]

Yes there is the POSSIBILITY. Then again, there is the possibility that one day the government will cut taxes, justice will be served in all manners, and scientists will find a way to turn shit into ice cream. The possibilities are endless. However, the people who actually kill people anyways usually don't wish to improve their lives. It is rare that after someone commits such a crime that they even want to improve their lives. And even if they said they did, the public would be ok with muderers walking around on the outside world because they want to improve their lives??? Who gives a flying censored WHAT murderers want. Oh what, it's not fair to the murderers that they have no hope if they're stuck in prison?? Well is it fair that the person they killed is no longer alive without their consent, and that that person's family has to suffer through the pain of losing a loved one? Put 'em jail, and either kill them or let them rot.

i don't think anyone is saying they should be let out after murdering someone. even the most liberal of us would agree (i think) that they have to spend the rest of their lives in a rather uncomfortable jail.and for this person to be executed is nothing more than murder. he is making positive contributions to society and is being killed. it is absolutely depressing that someone is now being publicly murdered for nothing more than political reasons. anyone with any amount of intelligence or capacity for analytical thought knows that in this particular case, execution is wrong. every single person who has a say in Californian or American politics should be vehemently protesting this. if not, you are helping to murder someone. i hope you can live with that, because i certainly couldn't. and since this person is probably making more positive contributions to society right now than you are, and you are helping to murder him, i don't think you can find issue with anything bad that ever happens to you in the future.that seems harsh, but this is nothing more than murdering someone who currently is making positive contributions to society. if you voted for Arnold or his party federally and do not protest this, you are implicitly helping murder. if you vote for either in the future, you are voting for a murderer. think about it.daniel

Gonna have to point these out to me. If you are referring to all his anti-gang efforts in the past, I redirect you to what was brought up in his clemency hearing. There has been no...I repeat...no decrease in gang activity in the LA area since his 'campaign' started. If you are referring to his 'children's books' and saying that that is a bigger contribution than I make to the public, then I will simply refrain from debating you on this topic since you are obviously ill-informed

[princeof56k 0]

There are, in fact, some criminals who have admitted that they continue to commit crimes solely for the fact that they'd rather be in jail than leading a poor life outside of prison. There's been research and reports on this topic, and it has been covered in shows such as 60 minutes several times. I wish I had time to provide some evidence to back my claim, but I'm at work. If you look it up there's bound to be a bunch of stuff online about it.

Are you sure that they werent talking about some minimum security summer camp where, for someone's who in complete poverty, a person might see a small benifit. While I'm not absolutely certain, I'll bet there's not a line forming to get a life sentence to San Quentin.

[bmwguy525 0]

Yes, but the argument is not pertaining solely to San Quentin. The argument is being made that life in prison is in general more comfortable to certain people in certain places. Not all people enjoy prison, and not all people want to get into San Quentin. But then again, not all people are poverty-stricken criminals who commit heinous acts of crime and degredation.

[TheIceman05 0]

Yes, but the argument is not pertaining solely to San Quentin. The argument is being made that life in prison is in general more comfortable to certain people in certain places. Not all people enjoy prison, and not all people want to get into San Quentin. But then again, not all people are poverty-stricken criminals who commit heinous acts of crime and degredation.

I don't...I'm in shock. I don't think I've read anything so dumbfoundingly dumb. Ever. Life in prison is more comfortable to certain people in certain places = all prisoners eat caviar and get blowjobs from supermodels.Logic. LOGIC. This thread is lacking it to a very extreme degree. All anyone says is, "He killed innocent people he should be dead he doesn't deserve to live."Will someone read some of the things I posted earlier about the retributive nature of our society's justice system, and, like, give it some thought?Ice

[gkunit20 1]

There are too many people in our society. Fry those suckers. On a serious note, I think it a death penalty is warrented in extreme cases. There is a reason why it is scarcely used. If somebody goes out and shoots one person in cold blood, let him rot in jail. If somebody goes out and blows up a building, or kills twenty people, letting him live seems like letting him off easy. I am not familiar with the details of the case, but from what I have heard, it was a pretty serious offense. I am okay letting him get injected than let him live.

[bmwguy525 0]

Yes, but the argument is not pertaining solely to San Quentin. The argument is being made that life in prison is in general more comfortable to certain people in certain places. Not all people enjoy prison, and not all people want to get into San Quentin. But then again, not all people are poverty-stricken criminals who commit heinous acts of crime and degredation.

I don't...I'm in shock. I don't think I've read anything so dumbfoundingly dumb. Ever. Life in prison is more comfortable to certain people in certain places = all prisoners eat caviar and get blowjobs from supermodels.Logic. LOGIC. This thread is lacking it to a very extreme degree. All anyone says is, "He killed innocent people he should be dead he doesn't deserve to live."Will someone read some of the things I posted earlier about the retributive nature of our society's justice system, and, like, give it some thought?Ice

No. Go back and read what I wrote earlier and I'll think about it. As i previously stated, not only did he kill people, but

He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast.

He didn't ONLY kill people directly, but he helped create a group that is responsible for numerous killings, responsible for even more petty crimes, and that is also responsible for a constant state of uneasiness and unrest in downtown LA. The products of his labor are still lingering today in such a negative manner that he should be injected five times over.

[avsfan 0]

How can Arnold grant Clemency to some one he knew personaly. It would be a slap in the face to the legal system of California to grant clemency without that very legal system supporting Clemency.Imo. I am not trying to judge if Tookie should get Clemency or not> I am just saying I see no way in heck Arnold could have granted clemency. It would also be polticial suicide for poor Arnold. He would get murderlized for it big time.p.s. I should also be stated that clemency isn't somethin we do in California. It would be extremely odd. We even kill handicap ppl here. :cry:

[insano 0]

Yes, but the argument is not pertaining solely to San Quentin. The argument is being made that life in prison is in general more comfortable to certain people in certain places. Not all people enjoy prison, and not all people want to get into San Quentin. But then again, not all people are poverty-stricken criminals who commit heinous acts of crime and degredation.

I don't...I'm in shock. I don't think I've read anything so dumbfoundingly dumb. Ever. Life in prison is more comfortable to certain people in certain places = all prisoners eat caviar and get blowjobs from supermodels.Logic. LOGIC. This thread is lacking it to a very extreme degree. All anyone says is, "He killed innocent people he should be dead he doesn't deserve to live."Will someone read some of the things I posted earlier about the retributive nature of our society's justice system, and, like, give it some thought?Ice

No. Go back and read what I wrote earlier and I'll think about it. As i previously stated, not only did he kill people, but

He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast.

It's ok, he just doesn't get it. Most people don't anymore. Let him get back to scraping that Kerry/Edwards sticker off his bumper, before the cold weather hits.

[bmwguy525 0]

LoL insano, the mental imagery of that is making me piss myself with laughter.

[KingAustin 0]

LoL insano, the mental imagery of that is making me piss myself with laughter.

lmao, same here.

[teneight 1]

he deserves to die. btw, i hate how "blacks" say they only reason they are gonig to kill him is because he's black. Why do they always have to make everything about race? it has nothing to do with that...he killed 4+ people, from MY HOME TOWN..WHITTIER, CALI.!he gets what he deserves. it's not because he's black.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

No. Go back and read what I wrote earlier and I'll think about it. As i previously stated, not only did he kill people, but

He started one of the deadliest, most dangerous gangs on the West Coast.

I think that most people agree that if the use of the death penalty were just, he would be a good candidate and would be deserving of his punishment. However, I believe that at least some people are not arguing about the specifics of this case but rather against the death penalty in general. I think this is what Iceman was talking about.

[rsmbox 1]

he deserves to die. btw, i hate how "blacks" say they only reason they are gonig to kill him is because he's black. Why do they always have to make everything about race? it has nothing to do with that...he killed 4+ people, from MY HOME TOWN..WHITTIER, CALI.!he gets what he deserves. it's not because he's black.

reminds me of john jubert...the kids he kidnapped/raped/murdered were from my neighborhood and the areas around it...luckily i didn't go to the school where the kids that he got went to, even though it was only about 6 blocks from my house...because if i did, i would have walked to school, and there's a good chance i wouldn't be here todayamerica's most wanted did a special on him around the time he was slated for execution, and they filmed alot of the show on my street...it was very surrealas far as my stance on the death penalty, i'm not 100% decided...i agree that the heinous crime of murder deserves a heinous sentence, but knowing that someone's life is about to end (watching the news coverage of jubert's execution, for example) never really sits well with me...kind of a sobering feeling