Jump to content

should stanley tookie williams be executed?



Recommended Posts

Yes there is the POSSIBILITY.  Then again, there is the possibility that one day the government will cut taxes, justice will be served in all manners, and scientists will find a way to turn shit into ice cream.  The possibilities are endless.  However, the people who actually kill people anyways usually don't wish to improve their lives.  It is rare that after someone commits such a crime that they even want to improve their lives.  And even if they said they did, the public would be ok with muderers walking around on the outside world because they want to improve their lives???  Who gives a flying censored WHAT murderers want.  Oh what, it's not fair to the murderers that they have no hope if they're stuck in prison??  Well is it fair that the person they killed is no longer alive without their consent, and that that person's family has to suffer through the pain of losing a loved one?  Put 'em jail, and either kill them or let them rot.
i don't think anyone is saying they should be let out after murdering someone. even the most liberal of us would agree (i think) that they have to spend the rest of their lives in a rather uncomfortable jail.and for this person to be executed is nothing more than murder. he is making positive contributions to society and is being killed. it is absolutely depressing that someone is now being publicly murdered for nothing more than political reasons. anyone with any amount of intelligence or capacity for analytical thought knows that in this particular case, execution is wrong. every single person who has a say in Californian or American politics should be vehemently protesting this. if not, you are helping to murder someone. i hope you can live with that, because i certainly couldn't. and since this person is probably making more positive contributions to society right now than you are, and you are helping to murder him, i don't think you can find issue with anything bad that ever happens to you in the future.that seems harsh, but this is nothing more than murdering someone who currently is making positive contributions to society. if you voted for Arnold or his party federally and do not protest this, you are implicitly helping murder. if you vote for either in the future, you are voting for a murderer. think about it.daniel
Gonna have to point these out to me. If you are referring to all his anti-gang efforts in the past, I redirect you to what was brought up in his clemency hearing. There has been no...I repeat...no decrease in gang activity in the LA area since his 'campaign' started. If you are referring to his 'children's books' and saying that that is a bigger contribution than I make to the public, then I will simply refrain from debating you on this topic since you are obviously ill-informed
i don't have much to say except respond to this, since i feel it's one of the few (if only) posts/posters that is responding intelligently that i disagree with. another big thanks to iceman (and prince56) for stating many of my opinions better than i could.to the latter point about the children's books. i am ill-informed. i don't imagine any convicted murderer producing children's books from his prison cell is creating value. in fact, it disturbs me if those books are being used for anything more than sociological/psychological research.as to the former, i am an economics student and as such, i realize that it would be impossible to actually measure the change in gang activity since his campaign. to think that you could measure the change directly related to his campaign is even more ludicrous. there are simply too many factors involved and too short a time period to even consider the results of his campaign. the only thing we can do is consider his contributions, and judge for ourselves whether we believe they will have positive effects. if so, he should live.if not, then we can then consider whether we feel these efforts are sincere. if he is sincerely making efforts towards making positive contributions, then i would argue that it is immoral to execute him.i'm sure if the stats given in the clemency hearing were carefully reviewed, it would be found that it is statistically impossible to say with any certainty whether his campaign had any effect on gang activity.daniel
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 208
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

the end!RIP
Not looking to get in an arguement, my feelings are mixed on this issue.I just find it kind of strange that you could want to execute someone and then wish them to "Rest In Peace" so to speak.I've seen it said before and always thought of it as kind of conflicting.Just an observation.
Link to post
Share on other sites
the end!RIP
Not looking to get in an arguement, my feelings are mixed on this issue.I just find it kind of strange that you could want to execute someone and then wish them to "Rest In Peace" so to speak.I've seen it said before and always thought of it as kind of conflicting.Just an observation.
I'm sure it's not real peaceful where Tookie is.
Link to post
Share on other sites
the end!RIP
Not looking to get in an arguement, my feelings are mixed on this issue.I just find it kind of strange that you could want to execute someone and then wish them to "Rest In Peace" so to speak.I've seen it said before and always thought of it as kind of conflicting.Just an observation.
I'm sure it's not real peaceful where Tookie is.
GOOD
Link to post
Share on other sites
And now that the thread is over we can all agree that Iceman is officially mentally retarded.
(crickets chirping)Boo-yah.I'm reeeeeling.We should compare scholastic accolades sometimes. I've got a GED. What you got?BustIce
Link to post
Share on other sites

LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Furthermore Ice, I don't know if you've been following this thread, but it appears that you've already lost your case. Not only has Tookie been killed already, but a majority of the responses in this thread are pro-death penalty in extreme cases, such as the one at hand. And as we all know, since we were all little kids and went through preschool, numbers win. And do you really think that you're the only one who thinks like you??? There are numerous people who think like you, and a vast amount of them were trying to fight this case. However, THEY LOST. Their ideas were insufficient enough to retract the sentence given, which had been based on human instinct, emotion, logical thinking, and true humanitarianism, not altruistic bullshit, which is apparently what you are trying to preach.

Link to post
Share on other sites
LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
Link to post
Share on other sites
LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
I believe it is just you because if you will look further up the thread for my posts, you will see that there is logic applied there, and I am not, per-se, a liberal
Link to post
Share on other sites
LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
It is you. The problem with most liberals is that they apply logic to a problem as it applies to their side.--RuffRidr
Link to post
Share on other sites
LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
It is you. The problem with most liberals is that they apply logic to a problem as it applies to their side.--RuffRidr
I love how liberal has turned into this dirty word. It's like cocksucker, or something. A few things:First, BMWGuy. I wasn't saying an exception should be made for Tookie Williams. I would have been pretty disappointed if there had been a stay of execution for him. I'd rather the law be upheld than exceptions be made for a man who started doing lots of good JUST to save his ass. I never argued that his post-incarceration good deeds should save him from the hangman's noose. I was arguing against the death penalty in general.Secondly, the word "altruistic" is not an insult. Look it up. I think you mean something like "idealistic," but I'm not sure, because you're kind of a moron. Thirdly, I'd challenge you take parse my post, and find the logical fallacies in it. Open challenge. Take your time. I'll check back if you find anything.Fourthly, I think your problems with liberals- at least this liberal- is that we're capable of ARGUING about values in the abstract. Realism and pragmatism are important, but many of the issues that demand discussion ALSO require consideration of the intangible.Even money says BMWguy understood, like, 15% of what I said. MAYBE 20%.Goodluck,Ice
Link to post
Share on other sites
Secondly, the word "altruistic" is not an insult. Look it up. I think you mean something like "idealistic," but I'm not sure, because you're kind of a moron.
This would be the only part of your argument that I disagree with (well this and a little about how most arguments need to take into account the intangible, but that is neither here nor there)I think he did mean altruism (and yes, I know what it means). Many liberal people in my opinion seem to argue things because they are 'wrong' and because we must all do 'good' no matter what the consequences are. Which is the definition of altruism, doing good without personal gain.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
I believe it is just you because if you will look further up the thread for my posts, you will see that there is logic applied there, and I am not, per-se, a liberal
No disrespect, you didn't say much to convince me that the state should execute people.You said that being imprisoned for life in ancient rome was much worse. Fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact that being locked up today is still a nightmare, which is the point. We're punishing them harshly by locking them up, why do we have to kill them?The government making allowance for manslaughter and self-defense is completely different to the government actually killing someone.By applying logic to the problem there's no way you can come to any conclusion about whether it's "right" to execute someone. It's impossible. Eye for an eye, sanctity of life, blah blah blah, there's a counter-argument for everything. The only thing you can do is identify a problem, see a solution, and work out how to affect the solution. The problem is murder, the solution is lessening the number of murders, and the best way to get there is absolutelynot for the government to perform officially sanctioned murders.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it just me, or have us liberals been the only ones applying logic to this problem. Also, see my practical post on how the death sentence encourages murders.
I believe it is just you because if you will look further up the thread for my posts, you will see that there is logic applied there, and I am not, per-se, a liberal
No disrespect, you didn't say much to convince me that the state should execute people.You said that being imprisoned for life in ancient rome was much worse. Fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact that being locked up today is still a nightmare, which is the point. We're punishing them harshly by locking them up, why do we have to kill them?The government making allowance for manslaughter and self-defense is completely different to the government actually killing someone.
None taken. I was simply pointing out that I had in fact used logic, not applied to the problem, but simply to refute evidence used by others.The reason I have decided not to argue one way or another in this forum is because I have not seen a well throughout stand for either side. Is Iceman a good debater? yes and no. He has, with much fercity and intelligence, pointed out that the side for the death penalty has not adequately debated their stand. He has not (nor has anyone else in my opinion), however, argued against the death penalty, other than to say that because the pro death penalty argument is flawed, the alternative must be correct. This kind of logic I can neither get behind nor oppose because it is actually devoid of a base. I do find this whole thread enjoying though.
Link to post
Share on other sites
LoL I would actually refuse to argue with you anymore regardless of the outcome of this thread, strictly because liberals refuse to accept the fact that on most issues their arguments are founded on nothing but altruistic ideals, instead of realism or humanism, usually making any argument from them devoid of any sense or logic.Don't talk to me.
Are you a stand up comedian like Bill O'Reilly? You're really, really funny, so if you aren't I say give it a shot.Ice posits lucid, cogent arguments in this thread and you respond by telling him to shut up. It's comedic gold! Gold, I say!Give us more!!!
Link to post
Share on other sites
.The reason I have decided not to argue one way or another in this forum is because I have not seen a well throughout stand for either side. Is Iceman a good debater? yes and no. He has, with much fercity and intelligence, pointed out that the side for the death penalty has not adequately debated their stand. He has not (nor has anyone else in my opinion), however, argued against the death penalty, other than to say that because the pro death penalty argument is flawed, the alternative must be correct. This kind of logic I can neither get behind nor oppose because it is actually devoid of a base. I do find this whole thread enjoying though.
First off, I was a state finalist debater 2 years running in highschool. Captain of the debate team. Two-time league speaks champ. One-time college walk-on. If there were a nerd-city, I'd be mayor.Secondly, I HAVE forwarded my anti-death penalty case. More than once, on more than one page. If you care to, read the VERY FIRST post on this page. It's a brief outline of my reasons for being unable to support the death penalty.Cheers, Ice
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...