j j

[Frisco d’Anconia 0]

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Jc], [Js]. 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.Flop: (12.50 SB) [Td], [Kd], [Qs] (4 players)BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, BB calls, Hero calls.Turn: (8.25 BB) [Jh] (4 players)BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds.River: (10.25 BB) [4c] (2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 11.25 BBGive me ever street.I suck.

[vonteego3 0]

just my 2 cents... if you're in a multi-way pot at this level, guaranteed that someone has an A... they wouldn't have folded to a cap preflop, and they PROBABLY wouldn't have folded a gutshot draw on the flop... I don't see a problem with how you played it, although I think I'd have called just to see how I was beat by A4o so I could proceed to go on tilt for a little while, or break my spacebar (again).

[Smasharoo 0]

Raise the flop, call the river.River fold is fucking terrible.12 to 1!!

[No_Neck 0]

can't fold the river, unless you are over 90% sure (I don't think anyone can be that sure online)

[screech 0]

Should we lead this flop to try to clean up our jack outs?

[jayistheman 0]

Should we lead this flop to try to clean up our jack outs?

seems like a pretty stellar idea

[wrto4556 0]

Should we lead this flop to try to clean up our jack outs?

This is a good idea. The only problem is that MP2's range of hands are really bad for us. If he has big cards he connected and most likely already has an ace or a higher set. If he has a small pair and was isolating, he is just going to fold.

[screech 0]

Should we lead this flop to try to clean up our jack outs?

This is a good idea. The only problem is that MP2's range of hands are really bad for us. If he has big cards he connected and most likely already has an ace or a higher set. If he has a small pair and was isolating, he is just going to fold.

Someday I might be able to think like this in real time.

[wrto4556 0]

Should we lead this flop to try to clean up our jack outs?

This is a good idea. The only problem is that MP2's range of hands are really bad for us. If he has big cards he connected and most likely already has an ace or a higher set. If he has a small pair and was isolating, he is just going to fold.

Someday I might be able to think like this in real time.

me 2

[hotbacon 0]

Raise the flop, call the river.River fold is censored terrible.12 to 1!!

Why raise the flop?You think he has >25% equity with a one card OESD on a 2-flush flop?

[JaysonWeber 0]

Raise the flop, call the river.River fold is censored terrible.12 to 1!!

Why raise the flop?You think he has >25% equity with a one card OESD on a 2-flush flop?

Yeah Exactly. You're pushing a weak draw into a field where every draw that's gonna beat you is calling. Check this flop, Call this river.

[Smasharoo 0]

Yeah Exactly. You're pushing a weak draw into a field where every draw that's gonna beat you is calling.You don't think you have better than 25% equity here?You're joking, right?

[JaysonWeber 0]

Yeah Exactly. You're pushing a weak draw into a field where every draw that's gonna beat you is calling.You don't think you have better than 25% equity here?You're joking, right?

Nope. What is it?

[mrdannyg 274]

tough to say whether you have 25% equity, since you have not much more than OESD on a 2-flush board. 6-8 outs, with possible splits and redraws. typical smash sarcasm, but i think you'd be hard-pressed to say with any certainty that you have 25% equity here. OOP, i think a raise here is not called for.i would go with an earlier poster and call the river, see the A4o, and go on tilt for awhile. seriously though, i think without reads we call, but i don't think many people at low limits bet this river without an ace. even if he doesn't have an ace, i think the 3-bet indicates a higher set is somewhat likely.unless this person was particularly loose, i can't see many hands betting this without a higher set or an ace. OP didn't say whether his post-flop play was also loose, but if he was a bit wild pre-flop, i'd assume he was, and call the river bet.daniel

[Smasharoo 0]

Nope. What is it?6 outs is 25%.Do you think we have less than 6 outs here?

[econ_tim 0]

excel is my friendouts on flop -- % equity20 67.5%19 65%18 62.4%17 59.8%16 57%15 54.1%14 51.2%13 48.1%12 45%11 41.7%10 38.4%09 35%08 31.5%07 27.8%06 24.1%05 20.4%04 16.5%03 12.5%02 08.4%01 04.3%Calculations don't account for chance of counterfeiting.Choose and perish.

[econ_tim 0]

Nope. What is it?6 outs is 25%.Do you think we have less than 6 outs here?

Why do you have to post the relevant information while I'm taking the time to make a chart?

[JaysonWeber 0]

Nope. What is it?6 outs is 25%.Do you think we have less than 6 outs here?

I think you need to go back, look at the hand, and come back to reality.

[Smasharoo 0]

I think you need to go back, look at the hand, and come back to reality.Maybe I'm missing something obvious.Explain to me how we have less than 6 outs.If we have around 7ish outs, which I think we do, and enough equity to raise, explain to me how raising doesn't tie lots of hands to the pot when we draw out adding even more value.Thanks.Again, maybe I'm missing something obvious.I'm pretty lazy and there might be some good reason we don't have 7 outs or whatever.

[JaysonWeber 0]

I guess we're viewing the hand differently then because when I see this board I get nervous... What are your outs here? that are clean? Let's not forget that ugly reverse implied odds which this hand is yelling at the top of its lungs.

[econ_tim 0]

maybe it will help to put MP2 on a range of 3-betting handslet's assume he's Joe Vanilla SSHEso he 3-bets AA-99, AKs-AQs, AK-AQlet's also assume he autobets this flop with all holdingsmore than half of these combos have aces.When he has an Ace, there is one less out to a straight, and our set outs are no good (unless we fill up).the ones without aces, he's likely to have made a setSo we can say often a) MP2 has one of the aces we want, and sometimes B) MP2 has higher set meaning our 2 J outs are no goodWe also have to think about CO and BB. There is a good chance that there is a flush draw and sometimes they will hold a bare J.At best we have 10 outs. I take away 2 for the MP2 and 2 more for the combined CO and BB.I think the worst thing to worry about is someone having a J because that takes away 5 of our outs.Anyway, maybe I'm being conservative, but fewer than six outs seems reasonable.

[HtotheNootch 0]

Why would you call the river?This is .50/1 somebody's got an A. Yeah I know 12-1. However this guy has an A way more than 7.5% of the time.

[guinevar 0]

Why would you call the river?This is .50/1 somebody's got an A.  Yeah I know 12-1.  However this guy has an A way more than 7.5% of the time.

Then by all means fold. :-) :? :oops: :x :cry: :wall: :doh: :hand:

[HtotheNootch 0]

Why would you call the river?This is .50/1 somebody's got an A. Yeah I know 12-1. However this guy has an A way more than 7.5% of the time.

Then by all means fold. :-) :? :oops: :x :cry: :wall: :doh: :hand:

Why the hostility?Or are you trying to prove your superiority by insulting a semi-regular poster?Seriously. I hope you feel proud and good. What the **** did I do to merit that response?

[wrto4556 0]

Smash,our equity isnt big enough to exploit on the flop. If it's 25% it barely made it there. I think its closer to 23%. I don't think the flop decision is close at all. It looks like a good check/call.