crash

[mk 11]

I agree, but I was directing the James Byrd thing more at garamond and BilliardsBoy, both of whom seem to think that such overtly depicted racism undercuts the film's 'realism'.

[Don Giovanni 0]

i agree that the overdone racism in the movie took away from how good the movie was. you can find whatever isolated incident you want but the fact is that where i live at least, there is no where near that much racism. this movie made almost every character look like a bad person. it was a good movie overall though. just could have been better.the racism in the movie was heavily forced, thats what im trying to say.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

I agree, but I was directing the James Byrd thing more at garamond and BilliardsBoy, both of whom seem to think that such overtly depicted racism undercuts the film's 'realism'.

Leave it to MK to find as harsh and rare an example to try to prove his point.In the majority of people in this country, race just is not a big deal. As I said, the real prejudice in this movie is between different classes in society (ie, Ludacris stealing the car later in the film).I'm am totally confident that Jadaki has in fact experienced some sort of rac.ist comment, and I am aware acts of harsh rac.ism occurs by all people, but its not common. I don't turn on the news and hear about a hate crime every day, which is why such crimes become a focus of the media. My friends and I rarely talk about race, and I personally have had good experiences with people of other colors and creeds. Even with perfect strangers there is usually a sense of normalcy. To criticize me for saying that this film overdoes it is stupid.Rac.ism is NOT the overwhelming drive in, nor does it dictate mentality, of people like it does in this film. Period. MK can google as many articles as he wants from Canada to try to prove me wrong, and Jadaki can say I live in a land of makebelieve because he gets "looks or comments", but it won't change the fact that 80% of the rest of us either don't care or don't let our personal opinions of others seep into our daily lives for fear of being labeled a rac.ist.

[mk 11]

I agree, but I was directing the James Byrd thing more at garamond and BilliardsBoy, both of whom seem to think that such overtly depicted racism undercuts the film's 'realism'.

Leave it to MK to find as harsh and rare an example to try to prove his point.In the majority of people in this country, race just is not a big deal.

Hi. Maybe because the majority of people in this country are white.Leave it to BilliardsBoy to post something totally ridiculous and follow it up with some self-righteous "Say whatever you want, but you won't change my mind," b.s.

[Jadaki 0]

I agree you don't see the widespread rasicm that you would have 40+ years ago, we have come a long way and examples like what MK pointed out are an exception. But to say that 80% of the population doesn't even think about it is absurd.The thing is racism rarely bothers people it doesn't effect directly, so it often goes unnoticed. I have been on the wrong end of more than words or comments and have seen even worse than what I have personally experienced, but that isn't the point. Crash's themes could be played out in a class vs class case like you said, but often those classes are also defined by color. When you think of a ghetto/housing project do you picture it being populated by whites or minorities? What about a trailor park? You have built in stereotypes, just like everyone else. Now how you conduct yourself is something totally different, but a lot of the problems with racism in society are built in.I don't know of any person who has never said anyting that didn't single out a different race/class/gender at some point. So telling me 80% of the population never thinks about it, is more than just a little far fetched.The film will impact different people in different ways. I for one related to the film because I know people like almost every character that was portrayed, including myself in some ways.

[THE_ANDYAA 0]

I think, while the racism in the movie was exaggerated, it made a point that way. I don't think it was there to show "this happens all the time." I think it was to open up the viewers' eyes to the fact that racism does exist and is a bad thing. It's like when kids are caught smoking, and their parents make them smoke a whole carton of cigarretes. Of course smoking a whole carton isn't normal, but proves the point of how devastating it can be. And while racism may not happen through blatant and obvious means, "subtle racism" is just as, if not more hurtful. What I mean by that, is subtle things are easier to dismiss and ignore.

[Oziumrules 0]

Saw Crash in the theater when it came out....awesome flick. There will be a few oscars given to that film, especially for best screenplay.

[mk 11]

I think, while the racism in the movie was exaggerated, it made a point that way. I don't think it was there to show "this happens all the time." I think it was to open up the viewers' eyes to the fact that racism does exist and is a bad thing. It's like when kids are caught smoking, and their parents make them smoke a whole carton of cigarretes. Of course smoking a whole carton isn't normal, but proves the point of how devastating it can be. And while racism may not happen through blatant and obvious means, "subtle racism" is just as, if not more hurtful. What I mean by that, is subtle things are easier to dismiss and ignore.

This is correct and should be obvious. It is a fictional work of art and is not meant to be viewed as a documentary. The creators have as much leeway to get their point across as they want. They thrust these hyper-real situations in front of us in order to FORCE us to have a reaction. It's manipulative, but it isn't patronizing. The film never condescends or asks you to turn off your brain by telling you what to think.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

I agree, but I was directing the James Byrd thing more at garamond and BilliardsBoy, both of whom seem to think that such overtly depicted racism undercuts the film's 'realism'.

Leave it to MK to find as harsh and rare an example to try to prove his point.In the majority of people in this country, race just is not a big deal.

Hi. Maybe because the majority of people in this country are white.Leave it to BilliardsBoy to post something totally ridiculous and follow it up with some self-righteous "Say whatever you want, but you won't change my mind," b.s.

I'm saying race is not a big deal, and you say it's because we are mostly white. OK, so are you saying that minorities are the rac.ist ones? Leave it to MK to post something that logically doesn't make sense. You're a dope MK. The country being mostly white and not caring about who is what color is the point I'm trying to make you arrogant a$$. Jeez, you got some brain on your shoulder.Again, I'm sorry for the bad experiences Jada, but you said yourself that most of us don't see it because it doesn't affect us. This is true. And this is why I have the problem with the movie, because EVERY character in the film is an open rac.ist in one shape or form. This creates the image that everyone is in fact rac.ist, and it is this point that the director is making in the movie (and MK) that I disagree with.I've said that I am aware that it still exists, and you have said that you understand that it is no longer wide spread. So then why are you and MK finding fault with what I said????And while ghetto brings to mind minorities, and trailor park brings to mind white, they are both communities of poverty. In this movie, the biggest obstacle for the characters was transending the boundaries of the class in society of which they belonged. They continued to use race as an excuse, like some in this thread, when in fact the real wall was being put up because of differences in the place they hold in society. It is this point that I feel is a stronger message in the movie, despite the overwhelming dialogue involving race.

[Don Giovanni 0]

I think, while the racism in the movie was exaggerated, it made a point that way. I don't think it was there to show "this happens all the time." I think it was to open up the viewers' eyes to the fact that racism does exist and is a bad thing. It's like when kids are caught smoking, and their parents make them smoke a whole carton of cigarretes. Of course smoking a whole carton isn't normal, but proves the point of how devastating it can be. And while racism may not happen through blatant and obvious means, "subtle racism" is just as, if not more hurtful. What I mean by that, is subtle things are easier to dismiss and ignore.

This is correct and should be obvious. It is a fictional work of art and is not meant to be viewed as a documentary. The creators have as much leeway to get their point across as they want. They thrust these hyper-real situations in front of us in order to FORCE us to have a reaction. It's manipulative, but it isn't patronizing. The film never condescends or asks you to turn off your brain by telling you what to think.

no, it was too much. people would still get the point if there was less.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

They thrust these hyper-real situations in front of us in order to FORCE us to have a reaction. It's manipulative, but it isn't patronizing. The film never condescends or asks you to turn off your brain by telling you what to think.

LoL, biggest contradiction ever. Directors manipulate you in order to tell us what to think. I have a good enough grasp of movies to understand that. They indeed tell us what to think about race throughout this entire movie, but shadow and toy with the idea of class discrimination. Only difference is that one required thinking to notice and the other didn't.

[mk 11]

I agree, but I was directing the James Byrd thing more at garamond and BilliardsBoy, both of whom seem to think that such overtly depicted racism undercuts the film's 'realism'.

Leave it to MK to find as harsh and rare an example to try to prove his point.In the majority of people in this country, race just is not a big deal.

Hi. Maybe because the majority of people in this country are white.Leave it to BilliardsBoy to post something totally ridiculous and follow it up with some self-righteous "Say whatever you want, but you won't change my mind," b.s.

I'm saying race is not a big deal, and you say it's because we are mostly white. OK, so are you saying that minorities are the rac.ist ones? Leave it to MK to post something that logically doesn't make sense. You're a dope MK. The country being mostly white and not caring about who is what color is the point I'm trying to make you arrogant a$$. Jeez, you got some brain on your shoulder.

Dude, come on. You're joking, right? Minorities are the people affected by racism.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

Again MK, lack of common sense.I say that people don't care, that race doesn't matter to them.You say that is because most people are white.This implies that the people to whom race is important are non-white, or minorities.This also implies that not only are white people not affected by rac.ism, but that they are unaware of people doing or saying rac.ist things.Now please ues a witty comeback to somehow try to shoot this down too. I think there is probably an article on a lynching from 1972 that could help prove your point. Or maybe you could use your superior inteligence to point out where, in this carefully laid out path of logic and reason, I am way off base. I am, after all, quoting what you and I said.You're on the clock, GO!

[WasaMaNG 0]

I'm saying race is not a big deal, and you say it's because we are mostly white. OK, so are you saying that minorities are the rac.ist ones?

I think what he meant was that if your white, you don't realize the subtle racisms that people hold the same way minorities do. Since most of the population is white, most of the population doesn't realize the racisms that are existent today.

[Jadaki 0]

I'm saying race is not a big deal, and you say it's because we are mostly white. OK, so are you saying that minorities are the rac.ist ones?

I think what he meant was that if your white, you don't realize the subtle racisms that people hold the same way minorities do. Since most of the population is white, most of the population doesn't realize the racisms that are existent today.

We have a winner!Everyone is capable of racism, minorities included. A point which Crash conveys nicely.

[mk 11]

This also implies that not only are white people not affected by rac.ism, but that they are unaware of people doing or saying rac.ist things.Am I arguing against this in any way? My point of contention with what you were writing was that you seemed to be dismissing the film as somehow less important because 'a majority' doesn't think about race as an issue. This is precisely the reason why the film was made.

[BilliardsBoy 0]

My point of contention with what you were writing was that you seemed to be dismissing the film as somehow less important because 'a majority' doesn't think about race as an issue. This is precisely the reason why the film was made.People don't like racists. I can speak for most of the white population in saying we look down upon it. It does still exist. It does sometimes rear its ugly head in ignorant and sometimes violent forms.The film does not show this reality. The film instead portrays everyone, of all colors and classes, as being openly rac.ist. It portrays them all of not only having impulsive thoughts or racist tendancies, but also shows them openly speaking and acting upon them.This movie is overdone in the race department because it gives an exagerated example of racism to try and and raise an issue that is well known and openly looked down upon. This movie preaches to the choir.I am not dismissing the film. The progression of society has already done some of that. I am critical of the over-the-top and many times unrealistic portrayal of what people think and how they act.If you fail to see this, then I can't help you.

[WasaMaNG 0]

Drugs are looked down upon, war is looked down upon, abortion is looked down upon...I'm asian. I went to a mostly white high school. In my graduating class there were 9 asians, 12 black people, 4 hispanics, and 3 middle-eastern/indian out of 237. This may affect my perspective, but nevertheless here it is:I believe most people want to believe that they are good people and therefore believe they are not racist. What Crash does is demonstrate in an extreme way the negative effects of the subtle racisms that ARE prevalent in today's culture (including in myself).Here's an example. A lot of the white kids at my school used the word "nigger". Okay, no big deal, it's all over TV and the radio. But it got to the point where people used that word to describe behavior (e.g. "Why are you being such a nigger?" or "This is nigger pool"). Now deep down, I know these guys don't hate black people, but these comments obviously show how they think about them.Here's another example. In 8th grade we took a field trip to NASA. I was friend's with a white girl and we were sitting on a bench together just talking. An adult white couple was staring at us and I heard the husband say "Goddamn chinks." Now the way they were staring, I've seen that look a lot when I'm out with white friends who are girls. It's a subtle disgusted look that really pisses me off, but since it's not so blatant...you can't do anything about it.My examples are less extreme than many other races because asians IMO aren't critisized nearly as much as other races. But the point is when you're part of the majority, you can't possibly understand the feelings a minority gets when he senses the racism behind someone's comments.

[Frisco d’Anconia 0]

I like the mid-90's one better.

[THE_ANDYAA 0]

no, it was too much. people would still get the point if there was less

I think that many people would get the point, but not everyone. Like one of the other posters in this thread who is asian pointed out, he gets awkward looks from people, however many people would merely just think, "There isn't any law against looking at people." Yes, the movie could have been more subtle, but I also think if it was less subtle, it would have had less of an impact. The film makers were obviously trying to make sure it affected everyone who saw the movie, not just some people. If people want to call it a guilt trip, then so be it, at least it conveyed the message clearly.To billiardsboy: I think you're taking this post a little too personally, and it's causing you to argue a bit irrationally, take a moment to step back and look at your posts objectively, they are a little out of line. Also, I don't think it shows everyone as racists, it merely shows, through the film, how it affects certain people. It may seem over the top to us, but I have no doubt in my mind, that things similar to this happen. Even if it's a small part of the population acting like this, it's too much. The film does a fantastic job of demonstrating this.

[WasaMaNG 0]

Just to clarify things...if i'm out with a black friend that's a girl, i'll get the same looks from black people too...or as a matter of fact, i'll get those looks from other asians as well...I wasn't trying to pick on white people.

[Jadaki 0]

Just to clarify things...if i'm out with a black friend that's a girl, i'll get the same looks from black people too...or as a matter of fact, i'll get those looks from other asians as well...I wasn't trying to pick on white people.

I experience the same thing. I am white, my children have a black mother. If it's just me and my kids out, I get looks and comments from both sides. Some people are cool with it, more than you think though are not. The best though is when it's a black guy who has his white girlfriend with him. Nothing like a little hypocrisy to brighten your day!

[timwakefield 68]

Crash was totally cheesy and overdone. I think I heard that P.T. Anderson helped work on the script, but whether he did or didn't, it's a terrible attempt at something like Magnolia (written and directed by P.T. Anderson). Magnolia is beautiful and surprising. Crash is a Hollywood tearjerker which has a blatantly obvious and boring message. Ludacris was its only saving grace. Lines like:"Anthony: That waitress sized us up in two seconds. We're black and black people don't tip. So she wasn't gonna waste her time. Now somebody like that? Nothing you can do to change their mind.Peter: So, uh... how much did you leave?Anthony: You expect me to pay for that kind of service? "

[BilliardsBoy 0]

What I take personally is the failure to comprehend what I am saying about the film.I can't say enough that yes there are racists in this country, but it is nowhere near as bad as portrayed in this film. The fact that WasaManG can recall one particular incident kinda validates this.If someone says or does something racist, most people look down at that person as being ignorant or a jacka$$. When we see the KKK or Nazi's out on parade, we'd all like to curb-stomp 'em. I'm sorry to those who have experienced racism in their own lives, but I'm sure you can all recognize that the situation in this country has gotten nothing but better these past 50 some odd years and that it is continuing to get better.This film does send the message I'm talking about. When every character in your film exhibits traits and habits of a racist, you are NOT saying that it is only a small percent of the population. Cramming those ideas down my throat for a 90 min movie isn't, IMO, as an avid movie lover and watcher, the best way to do it. Many great movies that bring up such alarming social issues are great in that they can make you feel the same way without being over the top. It is this subtle but powerful form of filmmaking that I appreciate more, which is why I fail to recognize this movie as "incredible".This thread has turned south, trying to prove the existence of racism. We can stop with that because we are all aware it is a problem. I suggest the posters get back to the root of this thread, which is the quality of this movie and the art of movie making.I would give this movie a 9/10. Ten to me is incredible, this movie falls just short. To me, the overt racism was overused and relied on as a crutch to the filmmakers to send the already known message that racism is a problem and is wrong. The actors were great, the movie came together beautifully, and the more subtle but compelling messages of the film did not escape my eye. Watch this movie twice, and the second time look through the race issue to see the others that lie at the heart of this film.P.S. I only take posts from MK personally

[WasaMaNG 0]

The best though is when it's a black guy who has his white girlfriend with him.  Nothing like a little hypocrisy to brighten your day!  

LOL. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talks about the old black racist. "Yeah I got a white wife. But if the revolution ever comes, she be the first to go."