should i gaybet?

[Nutcracker 0]

I'm kind of lost on hands like these. It seems like I'm not making as much as I should when I'm ahead, and I lose a lot when behind.Villian is 20/10/3 after about 40 hands, not enough to call it a concrete read.PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is MP2 with [Ah], [Kd]. 3 folds, Hero calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) [Ks], [5h], [4d] (2 players)Hero bets, Hero calls.Turn: (5.75 BB) [9d] (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.River: (7.75 BB) [Jh] (2 players)Hero checks with the intention of calling a bet.Final Pot: 7.75 BBFinal Pot: 7.75 BBI was thinking gaybet/fold on the turn would be the best line, betting the river if not raised on the turn. Does that sound right? Or was my wa/wb line best?

[hotbacon 0]

what does gaybetting the turn do? the guy is tag (after 40 hands anyway), and he raised the flop, so he is betting the turn after you check with any hand he could have atm (there was no flush draw, so he can't possibly going for a free card). if you gaybet, he calls with hands you beat and raising hands that have you creamed. I would check/call the turn, and bet/fold the river since he will take a free showdown with all the hands you beat and bet all the hands that chop or have you beat.

[dimseven 0]

Check raise the flop.

[BeanGW 0]

I probably C/R the flop. From that point on, if he keeps firing, I thnk I play it WA/WB, like you. I don't like bet/folding against a TAG. I really save that more for passive villains when I doubt they will raise with anything I beat.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Why not 3bet the flop and if he caps, check/call, if he calls, lead out?

[Sysvr4 0]

Why not 3bet the flop and if he caps, check/call, if he calls, lead out?

That's my line too.Jeff

[Nutcracker 0]

hotbacon, I like the idea of c/c the turn and b/f the river. I had not considered that. What do others think of that line?And yeah, I should have c/r the flop. I thought betting might make him define his hand, but I see now that it doesn't really get me any info. c/r would probably help me to define his hand better while getting more bets in when I'm ahead.

[pokerkid 0]

The only problem i see with checkraising the flop is if you are ahead, it slows him down on later streets, so you get less value.I call the flop, lead the turn.If he reraises turn, call, and then check-call the river.

[monoatomic 0]

If he is a tag why in gods name would you not go to showdown?Tag is Tight Aggressive. That means he's not going to 3 bet preflop with K9 K4. Only hands that beat you are AA and KK on the flop. AK chops. He could have QQ or JJ but I don't think he would bet out the turn in that case.Definately check raise the flop, and then lead the turn.

[zimmer4141 0]

I would probably lead the flop then 3-bet in this case. If he caps, then I c/c. If he calls, I lead the turn and call down most likely if he raises the turn

[jayboogie 0]

Check/Raise that flop. If you flop TPTK, there should be no reason not to play it aggressively, otherwise why do you play it at all?Your bet on the flop especially if you do it often will allow your opponent to fold QQ, JJ, hands you want to stay in with you.I would keep being aggressive until I'm shown aggression on the latter streets at which point I just call down. Your hand is ahead a good part of the time.

[looshle 6]

I was thinking gaybet/fold on the turn would be the best line, betting the river if not raised on the turn. Does that sound right? Or was my wa/wb line best?Don't think about folding this hand at any point.

[akishore 0]

!!!there is sooo much bad advice in this thread!!what in god's name are you protecting from? why in the world would you want to checkraise the flop or freaking three-bet *anywhere* in this hand? oh yeah, why the heck would anyone consider folding on the river, or anywhere in the hand for that matter??here's an exercise to get you started.what range of hands does a TAG three-bet with preflop?aseem

[Sysvr4 0]

or freaking three-bet *anywhere* in this hand?

You're kidding right? Flop looks like an easy 3-bet to me.Jeff

[Actuary 3]

Aseem,do you see every HU hand with no draws WA/WB ?thus, on this one, we are very likely way ahead and don't want villan to stop betting?I like betting the river though.

[screech 0]

!!!what range of hands does a TAG three-bet with preflop?

This is much more important that any "I raise/reraise because I have TPTK" line.

[Sysvr4 0]

!!!what range of hands does a TAG three-bet with preflop?

This is much more important that any "I raise/reraise because I have TPTK" line.

I don't think you guys are taking position into account here. Why don't you both give us a line so we can debate it?Jeff

[screech 0]

I don't think you guys are taking position into account here. Why don't you both give us a line so we can debate it?Jeff

Given buttons stats, he is very unlikely to have a weaker king than us. Even if you think he's capable of 3-betting KQs, he will only have this hand about 5% of the time.We are either way ahead of button, or way behind. If we are way ahead, 3-betting this flop will only cause him to slow down, and probably fold the turn UI. If we are behind, we just cost ourselves more bets to a hand like AA or KK. We win more by allowing our opponent to continue his bluff on the turn and river then we do by 3-betting and causing him to quit. We also lose less this way when we are behind. This is a clear cut case of maximizing you profits while minimizing your losses.

[Sysvr4 0]

I understand what you're saying, but that's still not a line Give me a line, please. I don't want to debate it until then...Jeff

[screech 0]

I understand what you're saying, but that's still not a line Give me a line, please. I don't want to debate it until then...Jeff

Haha, sorry. I got too wrapped up in explaining my line, I forgot to give it. bet/call the flopcheck/call the turnbet/call the river

[hotbacon 0]

I understand what you're saying, but that's still not a line Give me a line, please. I don't want to debate it until then...Jeff

Haha, sorry. I got too wrapped up in explaining my line, I forgot to give it. bet/call the flopcheck/call the turnbet/call the river

You think the tag raises the river with AK or worse enough?

[screech 0]

You think the tag raises the river with AK or worse enough?

Given his PFR% is 10, yes.Any line here that advocates folding on any street is terrible. I think he's 3-betting PF with at least AA-KK, AK, and AQs. Given this range, you are behind only about 10% of the time. Also, assuming he will only raise the river with AK or better, he is likely to raise the river 15% of the time. Why fold?

[Nutcracker 0]

You think the tag raises the river with AK or worse enough?

Given his PFR% is 10, yes.Any line here that advocates folding on any street is terrible. I think he's 3-betting PF with at least AA-KK, AK, and AQs. Given this range, you are behind only about 10% of the time. Also, assuming he will only raise the river with AK or better, he is likely to raise the river 15% of the time. Why fold?

I'd give him a pf 3-bet range of AA-JJ, AK, AQs (AQs is likely a call though, not a raise). So we're ahead about what, 2/3 of the time? The only problem is, when we're ahead and get aggressive here, we make it easy for him to fold. When we're behind and get aggressive, we lose a lot of bets. I also think if we bet the river, he won't be real likely to raise AA, since a broadway fell on the river. If a rag fell, he'd be much more likely to raise AA on the river vs. a broadway, agreed?So I think I've been convinced that the following is the best line:Bet/callcheck/callbet/call

[JaysonWeber 0]

This is a fun hand, It's obviously not a c/c c/c c/c down...A lot of the time you can 3-bet the flop, you can c/c and check/raise the turn... You can do a lot here.

[JaysonWeber 0]

Everyone done w/ this hand? It looks like most people are playing this too passively. You are way ahead more than way behind. Use a good line hereChris and I discussed it, calling down looks too passive here.Bet/Call - Bet - Bet instead of 3-betting the flop.Bet/Call - C/R - Bet - Another good line, if he's the player who will pay you off here.