big discussion hand

[SapphireTiger 0]

$25 cash game .10/.25 NLHEWe all have deep stacks as people kept buying in. All players involve have about $40-$50 in front of themHero in SB with (As, Qs)3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.Pot size: 6.25Flop: Jh, 5c, 6cHero bets $3.00, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO callsPot Size: $15.25Turn: 2sHero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $5.00, Hero raises to $12.00, MP3 folds CO callsPot Size: $39.25River: KsHero checks, CO checks------------------------------------------------------------------------Discuss

[Hold_Em 0]

I'm not sure what we are discussing? Is it how bad you are or something else maybe i missed it...

[SapphireTiger 0]

I'm not sure what we are discussing? Is it how bad you are or something else maybe i missed it...

if you don't see that there's something to discuss, then stop playing poker.try thinking before you post. it helps.

[mecoble 0]

horrible play if you check raise the turn you have to bet the river but you should have put on the breaks with 2 callers on the flop. raising out of the blinds with aq with multiple people already in will get you in trouble. you should have made a bigger raised to thin the field more. betting the flop when first to actis questionable as well b/c with that many people in someone probably hit. even if you are going to lead out on the flop you gotta bet more than half the pot.

[kfernandez 0]

First mistake: playing a .10/.25 cash game.Second mistake: taking your AQ farther in the pot with no pair and no draw.Third mistake: not betting the river after getting stuck in so deep with AQ high.

[LowBall 0]

WHAT HE MEANS IS WHY WOULD YOU POST SUCH A BORING ASS HAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE CARES you had the nut no pair of course your checking in a .10/.25 game either he missed his draw or hes gonna call you.

[dapokerbum 0]

Bet more pre flop. Then try to represent with Pot sized bet if you get callers then check down or fold.

[SapphireTiger 0]

keep it coming guys.You guys are missing out on a very important concept in this hand that you can apply to limit and no limit.Think about what MP3 could haveWhat my raise on the turn means (although i'll thoroughly admit that i should have raised a bit more)What the CO could haveWhat betting the river would accomplishi will post what is going on in this hand later after there is more discussion.

[LowBall 0]

You are thinking on a level that doesnt apply to a .10/.25 game if you think like this in terms of making plays on pots it will not work, playing tricky will not work in this type of game, all your doing is commiting more of his money to the pot and making him want to think your bluffing, the more money he has in it the more likely he will call thats all the small check raise on the turn acomplishes.

[Socko669 0]

First mistake: playing a .10/.25 cash game.Second mistake: taking your AQ farther in the pot with no pair and no draw.Third mistake: not betting the river after getting stuck in so deep with AQ high.

exactly.

[SapphireTiger 0]

You are thinking on a level that doesnt apply to a .10/.25 game if you think like this in terms of making plays on pots it will not work, playing tricky will not work in this type of game, all your doing is commiting more of his money to the pot and making him want to think your bluffing, the more money he has in it the more likely he will call thats all the small check raise on the turn represents.

i disagree. this play will ONLY work in low limits.Just because you're thinking on a higher level than your opponents...doesn't meant that the tactics are moot because they dont' understand it.for example. MP3 is facing a bet and a raise. he fold...because he's facing a bet and a raise while not thinking about the reasons for my raise.it still works.

[LowBall 0]

You have to understand your opponents sir, people just dont make laydowns in general at that level, if you have played a lot with this specific player and you know he does then yes you can push on the river. But other than that you played the hand terribly.

[dapokerbum 0]

Think about what MP3 could have

Flush Draw

What my raise on the turn means (although i'll thoroughly admit that i should have raised a bit more)

Means you are buying the pot

What the CO could have

Most likely J10

What betting the river would accomplish

Nothing as he would probably call you downIMO

[shpaget 0]

$25 cash game .10/.25 NLHEWe all have deep stacks as people kept buying in. All players involve have about $40-$50 in front of themHero in SB with (As, Qs)3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.Pot size: 6.25Flop: Jh, 5c, 6cHero bets $3.00, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO callsPot Size: $15.25Turn: 2sHero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $5.00, Hero raises to $12.00, MP3 folds CO callsPot Size: $39.25River: KsHero checks, CO checks------------------------------------------------------------------------Discuss

I don't see too much wrong here. I'd have probably bet $2 preflop.I think your lead bet on the flop is OK, but should be bigger if you want to take it right here. MP2 probably had medium pair, folded scared by over card. MP3 and CO probably have draws. You'd have to bet at least the pot to make a flush or straight draw not meet pot odds.Putting CO on a draw you see him as trying to steal the pot.Your raise scares MP3 away from his draw, but is not big enough to scare CO away from his draw - a flush draw is giving him pretty even up on pot odds.On the river a bet has no value. He's going to call if one of his draw cards was a King, he's folding if he's missed his hand.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

I make more money off making plays in these games than actually playing good hands. Whether u believe it or not fish do fold to pressure, especially when they make it obvious to the world that they have nothing. Thats what makes low blind NL such an easy game. Fish give their hand away by the amount they bet and dont even realize it.

[jakoye 0]

$25 cash game .10/.25 NLHEWe all have deep stacks as people kept buying in. All players involve have about $40-$50 in front of themHero in SB with (As, Qs)3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.Pot size: 6.25Flop: Jh, 5c, 6cHero bets $3.00, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO callsPot Size: $15.25Turn: 2sHero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $5.00, Hero raises to $12.00, MP3 folds CO callsPot Size: $39.25River: KsHero checks, CO checks------------------------------------------------------------------------Discuss

I would guess that MP3 had something like 78 and an open-ended straight draw after the flop. The turn bets were too much for him though, so he bailed. I would put the CO on two clubs, probably one of them being an Ace. He incorrectly called your raise on the turn and didn't hit his flush on the river, which is why he checked it down. You may have won this pot with your higher kicker.

[dapokerbum 0]

I make more money off making plays in these games than actually playing good hands. Whether u believe it or not fish do fold to pressure, especially when they make it obvious to the world that they have nothing. Thats what makes low blind NL such an easy game. Fish give their hand away by the amount they bet and dont even realize it.

WEll put. Lowball make sure you read this.

[SapphireTiger 0]

You have to understand your opponents sir, people just dont make laydowns in general at that level, if you have played a lot with this specific player and you know he does then yes you can push on the river. But other than that you played the hand terribly.

we disagree. and that's okay. elaborate on if you think i played the hand terribly assuming i was playing against tougher opponents

[SapphireTiger 0]

i left out an important detail.This was a live game, where we take the game seriously, but don't have a lot of dough to spend. Try to look at it where the opponents have some idea what they are doing

[LowBall 0]

I make more money off making plays in these games than actually playing good hands. Whether u believe it or not fish do fold to pressure, especially when they make it obvious to the world that they have nothing. Thats what makes low blind NL such an easy game. Fish give their hand away by the amount they bet and dont even realize it.

WEll put. Lowball make sure you read this.

Ok, yah they fold to a pressure using the key sentence When they make it clear they have nothing. If he has something hes gonna call my whole point is your getting more money in on the turn with this weak raise making him more likely to call with any jack, your best bet is defiantly checking here and hoping he missed his draw, I completely agree that you can make a lot of money off bluffing fish, but thats only because its obvious when they have nothing. You should always check here if you can beat a missed draw, its just a bad bet with this many possible missed draws.

[SapphireTiger 0]

I make more money off making plays in these games than actually playing good hands. Whether u believe it or not fish do fold to pressure, especially when they make it obvious to the world that they have nothing. Thats what makes low blind NL such an easy game. Fish give their hand away by the amount they bet and dont even realize it.

WEll put. Lowball make sure you read this.

Ok, yah they fold to a pressure using the key sentence When they make it clear they have nothing. If he has something hes gonna call my whole point is your getting more money in on the turn with this weak raise making him more likely to call with any jack, your best bet is defiantly checking here and hoping he missed his draw, I completely agree that you can make a lot of money off bluffing fish, but thats only because its obvious when they have nothing. You should always check here if you can beat a missed draw, its just a bad bet with this many possible missed draws.

i did check. and then he bet weak. SO many players fire a second bullet with their draws. and weak ones at that. this was screaming a draw.I don't have to be 100% sure that he's on a draw all the time to make this profitable. but you have to agree the vast majority of the time, the CO is going ot have a draw and play it the same way.

[LowBall 0]

You put yourself in a terrible situation that you never should have got yourself into, You check raised a very marginal amount out of position, you put yourself in a tough spot when you should have just given up on the hand with no pair and no DRAW, You should never make plays like this out of position with no draw or no pair espicially for sucha small amount.You dont have any clue where hes at right, he could have qj, which means your drawing to a ace, or he could have any Ax the X being paired with the board, given he called a raise preflop maybe he has a hand like aj or even ak(not all players play this aggressively), you just have no way of knowing how to play the river out of position, You know hes not a complete dog not to hit his draw even if he does have one, if a club hits do you then revert to him missing a str8 draw or if the str8 draw do you then say he has a club draw? what if you check and then he bets what do you do now call, espicially if one of the many draws hit??? There was no point in making this play give up on the turn and wait for a better spot.

[Spademan 94]

You should have open folded on the river, you donkey.

[DB10-2 0]

You should have open folded on the river, you donkey.

i laughed at that one. what i love is how he's trying to be all cryptic and show what high-level poker thinking he exhibited. it was quarter poker!

[poker_bull 0]

I would guess that MP3 had something like 78 and an open-ended straight draw after the flop. The turn bets were too much for him though, so he bailed. I would put the CO on two clubs, probably one of them being an Ace. He incorrectly called your raise on the turn and didn't hit his flush on the river, which is why he checked it down. You may have won this pot with your higher kicker.

You think he would call a $1.50 preflop raise w/ 7 8?