when to quit

[jayboogie 0]

Aspiringpro, I gurantee u that you have no idea what a bad run is. First off, u shouldn't ask for advice and blow it all off saying it's not for u then stick to what ur doing.Second, u said u could win wiht half a buyin with some luck. When ur relying on luck ur a fish. No other way to put it then that.Third, comments like "i've rarely lost at 1-2NL" just show that ur a fish and ur going to be a longrun loser until u change.Fourth, we've been through ur situation and have accomplished breaking through (atleast i have) and we are trying to give u advice so that u dont have to experience it to understand it. I can personally say that I completely understand ur situation and I also understand everything ur sayinig and why ur saying it. That being said. I highly recommend u take our advice and move down and grind up to 200NL. Of course, it's ur choice and I can honestly say i wont feel bad if u don't take our advice because i feel that the best way to learn is through experience. When i first started playing I never read anything (No books, forums, articles, etc) and learned everything i know through experience. I learned brm on my own and never went broke once. In the process $50 turned into 10k safely. That $50 was the first deposit i ever made.

You have to know your probably one of the few that were successful doing this. Most people go bust several times doing what you did, I mean it's great that what you did worked for you, but understand giving this advice to most people is like setting them up for failure, because it will not work for most players. With that said, I went through the exact same thing you did so I know exactly what you mean. It's tough work building up your bankroll and it's tough work having discipline as far as money management goes to not blow off all your winnings. I'd probably have the bankroll for 40/80 or higher if I hadn't been so liberal in my spending. You live and you learn though, and as I always like to say, it's part of the game.

[AspiringPro 0]

personal apology to everyone who gave advice I am now taking on board read through everyones post and understand that im throwing advice back in peoples faces. I now will implement every1s ideas that they have learnt from personal experience is there any good books on BR mangemnt?

[Egarim 0]

"That's poker"

[AspiringPro 0]

Nope ur right what about 100 NL how much would i need to have decent BR.

[Egarim 0]

personal apology to everyone who gave advice I am now taking on board read through everyones post and understand that im throwing advice back in peoples faces. I now will implement every1s ideas that they have learnt from personal experience is there any good books on BR mangemnt?

I know of none that specifically address brm. But there are books that help u understand brm in an indirect way. The THeory of Poker by David Skalansky is a must read for u. U'll better understand why u need to play hrs and not results.

[jayboogie 0]

yes i understand fully now i will actually forget about ignoring anyone. And take advice on board i have sen a few posters who have started a topic asking a question and not learn from it and stick to their views. My whole point of doing this was to learn something not to just have a narrow view of it. So what is my option if i dont want to play less than 200$ NL but want to use BR management

First of all, have a bankroll dedicated to poker, the bigger it is the better. You might as well put in as much as you can if your not using your money for something else, why not just put it in your bankroll so that your adequately bankrolled for the games you play. You'll also feel a lot more comfortable having a cushion where you can go through a bad run and still continue playing. Secondly, stop looking at every session as win/loss, if your a winning player, like I said the profits will show themselves. Start concentrating on whether your playing well rather than winning or losing.

[AspiringPro 0]

sorry whats playin hous not results sorry for being stupid not knowing what this is cheers for advice on davids book.

[Egarim 0]

Nope ur right what about 100 NL how much would i need to have decent BR.

Anywhere from 25-50 buyins would be standard and safe. However, i still recommend u do what I said earlier. Just take ur 900 u have now and call it ur bankroll and build it up from there.

[Pupsta 0]

Nope ur right what about 100 NL how much would i need to have decent BR.

if you're playing shorthanded, try to stick to 20 buyins. 2000 for $100nl, 1000 for 50nl, 500 for 25nl, etc.

[AspiringPro 0]

kk pupsta cheers !!! sorry for being ignorant before

[Pupsta 0]

kk pupsta cheers !!! sorry for being ignorant before

it's all good...it's just better not to have to go through the crap that people have been through with your mindset, and to grind it out if you're serious about playing professionally.

[Egarim 0]

sorry whats playin hous not results sorry for being stupid not knowing what this is cheers for advice on davids book.

Go back and read what I said earlier about DN"s article.I'm going to go against Jayboogie about putting in as much as possible. I think with ur lack of experience that's a bad idea. U don't want to just have a bankroll and no money in ur bank acct. The bigger the br the better, unless u don't know what ur doing. Also the bigger ur br the more inclined u r to jump up in limits before ur supposed to and since u didn't earn all that money through poker, i don't think u should put it in ur br. The first problem i see if u put in 4k-7.5 into ur br is ull have too much of a cushion. Judging by the way u play i would say that itll give u too much of a cushion and ull take the 200NL too lightly (i've had these problems in the past and still do at times). I think Chip Reese put it best on tv... (not an exact quote).He said You have to live on the edge a little bit. When you win it should feel good, but when u lose it should sting a little.If u take this the wrong way u'll thing this contradicts the play hrs not results, but if u think about it and take it in a different way, it doesn't. I don't. Some people need to feel the wins and losses just alittle to keep them motivated. I see nothing wrong with this.

[Nutcracker 0]

I lost brain cells reading this post. I'm sure others feel the same way. Except for a few 5/10 players, who are happy that you are ignoring the opinions of some intelligent posters, and will just go broke on their tables next week anyway.

[lboarts 0]

OK, I'm chiming in. I think Egarim has a good understanding of bankroll management (brm), but you're limits are a little higher than most would agree with. As far as SnGs go, I make a living at them and I use a set of rules that allow me to make 3-4k per month on a 1k roll. Because I must cash out to pay my bills and raise my family, I abide by 1 simple rule. I never spend more than 10% of my roll on a SnG. If I'm at 1k and I lose a $100 SnG, my next buy in will be for $90 or less. It's a simple concept but it works for me, because I rarely lose more than 3 in a row, and cash in atleast 3 in a row many times. Slumps and variance seem to be extremely low when I concentrate on SnGs. For those of you who can afford to not withdraw your roll, try this for a month and see if it doesnt work. Keep in mind you should cash in atlest 40% of your SnGs for this to work.

Once again, here is a prime example of what I am trying to say. Ur method works for u lboarts. However, most people, including me would say you're playing too high for your bankroll. But many factors must be included in your decision such as skill and comfort. 10% of ur roll in a sng is a lot! But it works for u. Everyone is different. I'm trying to provide more possibilities than just one for building a br because everyone does it differently. By aspiringpro's earlier comment's i felt my method was better for him because I went through a similar situation that he did and had a similar mindset at the time (not as crazy as him though).

I couldn't agree more that some people might think I'm playing beyond my roll. I came up with the 10% only after many hours and many SnGs. When I came up with this idea, I started at %20 and found that to be too high. The 10% suits me because my ITM% is right around 60%. Obviously, the smaller ITM% you have, the smaller your buy in % should be. Bankroll management is an individual thing, there's no one set of right numbers for everyone. The reason for this is simple, your skill level. Everyone sais they consistently beat the xx/xx games they play, but how consistently? A losing player can have the best brm skills known to man, and he will still lose his roll, eventually.

[jayboogie 0]

Bankroll management only applies to a player that's winning in the first place. It's not going to help a losing player win, it might help them from losing more money though.As far as a bankroll is concerned, I still stand by having a bigger one is always better than having a smaller one, but if your not comfortable putting so much in, then play smaller and work your way up.

[teneight 1]

wow i love this thread. i recently posted a topic about me turning 10 dollars into 3,400 dollars in a matter of 4 days. i got bashed for playing so high :::2-4, 3-6, 5-10 nl::: i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player. I have to admit now, when i had 3400 dollars, i sat at the NL 10-25 at Ultimate bet with 2k. i played about 4-5 orbits and came out on top for 350 dollars. didn't really get any hands, but still came out on top. it was a HUGEEEEE Rush playing with those guys. just my style of play. right after that, i decided to take out 2500 before i do something stupid AGAIN and sit down at teh 10-25 table. i left myself with 800 or so..and right now, im sitting at 500.I know people are saying that taking out money isnt the good way to go, but it's hard to learn how to be discipline over night. so the next best option for me is to have a low bankroll of 500 dollars and taking out 2500 for my live BR. It's totalyl different when i play live since i actually have the understanding that it's ACTUAL MONEY im playing with, so i play smart, better live. when i play online, i know it's real money, but it dosent feel the same as playing livei'm learning BR management the hard way, little by little. i have had over 800 dollars on UB before and losing it all in 2-3 sessions playing too high. every time i learn more and become more discipline. but c'mon, WE ARE GAMBLERs, it's hard not to get into the hard fast ACTION.teneight

[Nutcracker 0]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

[teneight 1]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

i know it's part of it, but there is some really great players out there that don't have bankroll management. even in the past, it was a problem for some people. the best example was stu ungar. great player, but his BR management wasn't that great either.teneight

[Pupsta 0]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

i know it's part of it, but there is some really great players out there that don't have bankroll management. even in the past, it was a problem for some people. the best example was stu ungar. great player, but his BR management wasn't that great either.teneight

i'm not bashing you or anything, but saying 'stu ungar did it so it's a reliable method' is like saying "that 12 year old asian kid has his phd, so i'm sure i can finish up my bachelor's by the time i'm 15!"

[jayboogie 0]

What's the point of being a great player if you don't have the money to show for it. What's the sense in being the greatest player in the world if your broke? The way to keep track of success in poker is how much your winning, at the end of the day, that's all that matters really.

[AspiringPro 0]

i feel like they guy has hijacked my post LOL and he seems to show less BR management to me. Anyone who continually boasts about winnin money may be lying and feeding their ego. However what u sed u have accomplished is far from impossible.

[lboarts 0]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

i know it's part of it, but there is some really great players out there that don't have bankroll management. even in the past, it was a problem for some people. the best example was stu ungar. great player, but his BR management wasn't that great either.teneight

i'm not bashing you or anything, but saying 'stu ungar did it so it's a reliable method' is like saying "that 12 year old asian kid has his phd, so i'm sure i can finish up my bachelor's by the time i'm 15!"

Check the bold, then do something about it. Either take it seriously or quit doing it. And cmon pup, he never said its a reliable method because stu did it.

[Pupsta 0]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

i know it's part of it, but there is some really great players out there that don't have bankroll management. even in the past, it was a problem for some people. the best example was stu ungar. great player, but his BR management wasn't that great either.teneight

i'm not bashing you or anything, but saying 'stu ungar did it so it's a reliable method' is like saying "that 12 year old asian kid has his phd, so i'm sure i can finish up my bachelor's by the time i'm 15!"

Check the bold, then do something about it. Either take it seriously or quit doing it. And cmon pup, he never said its a reliable method because stu did it.

no, but he's advocating it and throwing stu's name in there as an example.

[Pokerghost2 0]

i know i have a problem when it comes to playing poker online. i'm willing to risk it all just for a double up. i'm not scared to gamble, but i'm a very smart good player.

When are you gonna realize that bankroll management is part of being a good player? It's just as important as knowing pot odds or equity.

i know it's part of it, but there is some really great players out there that don't have bankroll management. even in the past, it was a problem for some people. the best example was stu ungar. great player, but his BR management wasn't that great either.teneight

i think what it will take is for some of u to do like i did.with 12k on UB i decided to sit at the 25 50 and only play if i caught a lock. well i caught my lock, a set of 5s on a board of Q54. unraised pot, bb check raises me with his 2 3 and then calls when i raise all in. hits a 6 on the river and im out 5k in a fkn hry. it took me a long time to build up that money but it left me real quick. i wont do it ever again tho, lesson learned.

[teneight 1]

i only used stus name because it was the more obvious one. there has been many many players, including dan harrington, daniel, layne...all who have played out of their BR. read some of the articles and books. you will find them there. everyone does it, but most people dont admit it when they lose it allteneight