online poker credibility

[gman86 0]

I have been playing on an online poker program (won't name names) for the past couple of weeks, and I can't help but feel that it is rigged. It seems there is a relationship between luck and the recency of your last deposit. Everytime a friend of mine deposits on this program their luck is incredible. Then a few days later it goes to crap.That's just me stating what I believe to be true, but what are the most credible programs? Thanks for your opinions...

[copernicus 0]

at least the major ones, and ive played them all.With the hundreds of thousands of players, all kinds of "patterns" will be seen. You just happen to know someone with one of them.

[tenesmus 0]

I play on pokerstars and have not deposited in over a year. In a recent SnG I hit 2-outers on the river TWICE to knock out the last two players. I'm so tired of hearing the conspiracy theories and players posting about "riverstars." I think these stories generate from seeing lots of flops per hour, seeing lots of staying in on draws pot odds be damned, and selective memory. IMHO.

[SLTS 0]

Never played online (no CC) but sat with a friend who depoisted a while ago, and I WILL name names, Party Poker.Lol he sits down at a NL $25 table. He sits down with $25 first hand gets dealt A-A Raises anyways after some raising we see a flop its A-K-K guy goes all in. I'm hollaring for my friend at his incredible luck! He calls and loses to the guys pocket Kings lol.

[gman86 0]

Since we are naming names I will tell you that I was referring to Party Poker. You will have the most ridiculous luck when you first deposit i.e. wired pairs flopping sets nearly everytime. Aces, Kings, AK, etc. an above average amount of time. Flopping the nut straight and full houses. It's just absurd imo.

[SLTS 0]

Forgot my original point. As I said I have never played online, but I have heard and read NUMEROUS stories of the sites being rigged for action, and I obviously can't stand either way. But I WILL say gambling on online poker sites isn't even legal in a number of areas. When a site says they are completely fair and the cards are totally random you are TAKING their word for it. I feel it is simply naive to NOT be somewhat skeptical when you sit down at a online table. You have the sites word and nothing else. But then again, thats my opinion.

[wrto4556 0]

Never played online (no CC) but sat with a friend who depoisted a while ago, and I WILL name names, Party Poker.Lol he sits down at a NL $25 table.  He sits down with $25 first hand gets dealt A-A Raises anyways after some raising we see a flop its A-K-K guy goes all in.  I'm hollaring for my friend at his incredible luck! He calls and loses to the guys pocket Kings lol.

Do you think this only happens online?Online sites are not rigged--pokerstars, partypoker, fulltilt, and Ultimatebet are all sites I have played on. Bad beats happen; get over it.

[wrto4556 0]

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a....php?a_id=14467

[SLTS 0]

Never played online (no CC) but sat with a friend who depoisted a while ago, and I WILL name names, Party Poker.Lol he sits down at a NL $25 table.  He sits down with $25 first hand gets dealt A-A Raises anyways after some raising we see a flop its A-K-K guy goes all in.  I'm hollaring for my friend at his incredible luck! He calls and loses to the guys pocket Kings lol.

Do you think this only happens online?Online sites are not rigged--pokerstars, partypoker, fulltilt, and Ultimatebet are all sites I have played on. Bad beats happen; get over it.

I said I've never played online. I don't know. I was just giving a topic for thought, when you play online you have nothing but the sites word of credibility.

[Smasharoo 0]

I was just giving a topic for thought, when you play online you have nothing but the sites word of credibility.When you play live you have nothing but the cardroom's word of credibility. More live cardrooms have been closed becacuse of fraud than online sites.Considering the tens of thousands of people making 5 figure a year or more playing online, you'd think this nonsense would have gone away by now.Oh well, there will allways be people who suck lookinng for an excuse I I guess.

[SLTS 0]

I was just giving a topic for thought, when you play online you have nothing but the sites word of credibility.When you play live you have nothing but the cardroom's word of credibility.  More live cardrooms have been closed becacuse of fraud than online sites.Considering the tens of thousands of people making 5 figure a year or more playing online, you'd think this nonsense would have gone away by now.Oh well, there will allways be people who suck lookinng for an excuse I I guess.

As I said I have not argument what so ever. Please don't attack me. All I was saying is when you have the sites word of honesty that is all you have. I don't play online so I am just stating if you trust that then best of luck to you, if you don't then you should not be playing.

[Shaffer 0]

As far as I can tell online sites are not rigged. I've been playing online for about six months now and have seen every complaint, heard every gripe, experienced every bad beat that there is to experience. Of course I know there is no way to convince the full-fledged conspiracy theorists, but I offer the following salient points nonetheless:1. You play hands much faster online than you do at a physical table.1a. You still remember every bad beat and lucky draw1b. Even if you only only experience bad beats at the same rate, per hand, that you do at a real table, it's going to seem like you see them a lot more because you see more of them per hour.2. Online poker sites tend to cater to extremely low limits and low buy-in tournaments.2a. Extremely low limits and low buy-in tournaments draw fish by the hundred.2b. Fish tend to call like crazy.2c. More bad calls = more bad beats, as chasing, by definition, implies that there is the possibility that something will be caught.3. Similarly, online poker draws a legion of maniacs, who, like fish, always seem to catch a beat or two. I can't tell you how many players I've seen catch extremely lucky beats early on in sit-n-goes, particularly, since that's where a lot of players attempt wild bluffs. Funny thing is, they never seem to be sitting with me in the money, though they may take a few players with them along the way. That's the dynamic a maniac brings to the table.4. The Internet's anonymity makes it more accessible to complainers. It's easier to launch into attacks when you're sitting behind a monitor with the only thing connecting you to the other players being an intricate network of ethernet cable. It's a lot easier to hurl accusations there than it is to accuse someone to their face of being a cheater. This only fosters further suspicion.Just yesterday I was faced with the most amusing accusation yet. I was accused of being a cheater after winning a $10+1 sit-n-go tournament, finishing off my last opponent with a 2-7 offsuit. We went heads-up almost dead even in chips - my 7450 to his 7550 or so, blinds at 300-600. On the very first heads-up hand I flopped top two pair with a real hand (for heads-up, at least --- K-9 or something similar) and got him to go all in on me (with something ridiculous, bottom pair I believe), where I busted him down to 100 chips.So, game over. But with only $100 more to take from him, the drama was only beggining. Following that hand:1) He was blinded all-in from the big blind and couldn't cover my small blind. He won, doubling up to 200 (he was a big dog, no pair with my bottom duplicating his top).2) He was blinded all-in from the small blind and won, doubling up to 400 (he was a substantial favorite with my over-under against his pocket pair).3) He was blinded all-in from the big blind, and it was an additional 100 for me to call from the small blind. I was dealt 2-7 offsuit, but with 700 already in the pot, and 100 to call, the 7-1 pot odds were right for me to call with him sitting on anything but 77 (even against an overpair I'm right at 6-1). So I sheepishly push the button to push my additional $100 into the pot, and watch as the cards flip up: A6. I'm only a 1.6-1 dog or so, and sure enough, the flop comes with a 6, but I catch a 7 on the turn to bust him with the bigger pair.So. In the general chatroom-thingy (to use technical terminology) that pokerroom.com has outside its tournament tables, this guy just starts going ballistic, telling anyone who would listen that he'd just been "cheated" by a guy that called his all-in with a 2-7 offsuit, saying that it was "obvious" that I was an employee of the site and that I knew that 7 was coming. Then he starts shouting for my account to be banned, which seemed kind of strange to me since if I were actually an employee of the site, I'd say the chances of that would be pretty slim. "It's almost like he knew it was coming." "This site is rigged, and he's proof". Anyway, he goes off on a typical rant, which I try to defuse by explaining to him the pot odds of the call, etc.; of course, he's not hearing it. He storms off in a huff.Now, this guy probably didn't seriously think I was an employee of the site, and probably didn't think he'd lost because the site was rigged, whatever that really means (rigged? In whose favor? Seems not to be affecting me, because I'm up!) He was just pissed because he'd lost to what he believed to be a stupid player (never mind that the hand he really lost on, the hand that took him down to $100 to begin with, was a *really* stupid play on his part).But the point of this (admittedly very long) story is to point out just how easy it is, particularly online, for a gripe about being beat by a "poorer" player to transform into an accusation of impropriety, when in reality that's probably not how a cheating site would look at all. It's probably easier to buy into until you become the target of the accusation yourself.Is it possible that sites are cheating for their benefit? I suppose, though it would seem to be very, very stupid in terms of risk/reward. But anecdotal evidence is to be treated with a great deal of skepticism, and the fact that most of the people making these accusations are just blowing off steam helps to put it in perspective.

[elkang 0]

You have more than the site's own claim to integrity. Beyond some understanding of the game, I won't expand on that, just stating that any claim other than that is unsubstantiated and false and should be easily dismissible.If you don't trust online sites and don't play online, you are missing out and making an ignorant move. But, a basic course in psychology or statistics would really help - or just read from trusted and wiser sources.

[rog 0]

Look, it's simple. Play a few thousand hands, and analyze the flops. Does every card in the deck come up in roughly equal proportions? Does each card come up in conjunction with random other cards, or does AK come up more than A8 in the flops?With this many hands being played, it would be very easy to demonstrate that the game is not random. If this was the case, someone would have done it by now and then launched a class action suit. Do you really think a big and profitable business would risk their very lucrative existence by committing fraud publicly for all to see? The people making allegations have absolutely no evidence. Any sequence of cards is possible, and as likely as any other particular sequence. Is the lotto rigged just because someone got it right? The odds are astronomical against getting it right, but someone get it right almost every week. Talk about your lucky draws... it's like they knew what numbers would be drawn. Cheaters...the whole lot of them I say! We only have their word that it's random.rog

[Guest]

next time you play online, do this:everytime the favourite hand wins the pot say something like this in chat: "hand odds hold up.". The table will very quickly tell you to shut up, because nobody ever states the obvious.the earlier post about seeing more hands per hour and more people seeing all the way down to the river probably describes the so-called 'riverstars' phenomenon most accurately.

[darksung 0]

Why would they even bother to create a software like that. Do you know how complicated it would be?

[mk 11]

this is one of the most popular topics on forums everywhere and has been discussed ad nauseum here...i'm only posting again because my opinion on the topic has changed somewhat. when i first started playing online, i played small stakes hold em, mostly $1/$2. after playing for about 3 months, i became convinced that the sites (Party and Empire) juiced their pots by having more "action flops" than you would see in a live game.after moving up in limits, i'm less certain. there certainly are a ton of calling-station fish at the $1/$2 limits. And with stakes that low, the consequences of missing a draw aren't great enough to make people fold, even when they aren't getting correct odds from the pot (if they're even paying attention to pot odds or implied odds).it is, however, in the sites' interest to get a lot of action on every flop, as the rake isn't fixed, but increases with the size of the pot. this is the only reason i still maintain a sliver of skepticism when playing limit online.

[mk 11]

this is one of the most popular topics on forums everywhere and has been discussed ad nauseum here...i'm only posting again because my opinion on the topic has changed somewhat. when i first started playing online, i played small stakes hold em, mostly $1/$2. after playing for about 3 months, i became convinced that the sites (Party and Empire) juiced their pots by having more "action flops" than you would see in a live game.after moving up in limits, i'm less certain. there certainly are a ton of calling-station fish at the $1/$2 limits. And with stakes that low, the consequences of missing a draw aren't great enough to make people fold, even when they aren't getting correct odds from the pot (if they're even paying attention to pot odds or implied odds).it is, however, in the sites' interest to get a lot of action on every flop, as the rake isn't fixed, but increases with the size of the pot. this is the only reason i still maintain a sliver of skepticism when playing limit online.

[SonnysBarBQ 0]

There are two poker programs that I have stopped using because of that. Lets say every time I deposit I receive an incredible amount of luck until the next day later. Good luck finding a good poker program, tell me when you do.

[justblaze 0]

A week ago, at Casino Rama this one guy had just cashed in. The casino obviously wanted him to do well so hed keep playing. He got 77, guy right in front of him was pushing the whole way with 1010. flop was 1077. It has to be rigged. all you have is the cardrooms word as to the honesty, and in some places poker isnt even legal! i mean heres this guy, been playing for hours, gets so unlucky, new guy just cashed in hits a miracle flop. just wanted to warn you all, all BM games are rigged.

[GoBucksIndy 0]

I love the players who, during the tourney, say "I know this site is rigged". My response is always "If you know the site is rigged, then why do you play?" Seriously, how dumb would you have to be if you knew the site was rigged and still played. It makes no sense. It's very simple. If you think the site is rigged don't play. I know the site isn't rigged and if it is rigged, it must be rigged in my favor.

[KidKanuck 0]

If this was the case, someone would have done it by now and then launched a class action suit.rog

I play online and I choose to believe it is not rigged as it would affect my game if I beleived otherwise. I have C++ programming knowledge, and frankly it is possible to "rig" a site in order to tweak revenues, actually it would be quite easy, I say this with absolute certainty.Now to address the comment of a class action suit...I think a strategy of buyer beware is in order and a philosophy of "if it was rigged someone would have done something about it by now" might be a bit naive 'cause frankly even Johnny Cochran(sp?) would have difficulty bringing a case against filthy rich companies spread across many international jurisdictions including many of which are more corrupt than you could ever suspect a site to be.I think people who love to play poker should be grateful that thier money is not being stolen from them in large quantities because frankly if it was and it would be easy to do for these sites....try to find a way to get your money back from a Panamanian # bank account.I believe and I think it's fairly logical these site stand to benefit far more from a legitimate business practice over time than by stealing....as the saying goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you"....and as a wise man once said... "you can lead a horse to water but you can't eat your couch"IMOhave a good one all.KK

[KidKanuck 0]

There are two poker programs that I have stopped using because of that. Lets say every time I deposit I receive an incredible amount of luck until the next day later. Good luck finding a good poker program, tell me when you do.

wouldn't it stand to reason that you should deposit...play high stakes for a day...then cash out and move to another cardroom...beat them at thier own game I say!KK

[justblaze 0]

on another note, good luck hauling an offshore company based in some obscure place like the Isle of Man or Malta into a US court for a class action suit. The US has no jurisdiction whatsoever as far as the practices of these companies, otherwise they would have been shut down long ago for violating various US gaming laws.

[rog 0]

KK: Okay, I can buy that a suit might be hard to launch due to jurisdiction. The main thrust of my argument however is that it should be a simple matter to prove it's rigged. With so many people alleging it, how come nobody has crunched the numbers to prove it yet? Either the cards come "randomly" or they dont. Enough people have seen enough cards to statistically prove it's rigged. It hasn't happened yet, and I believe it wont. It's one thing to cheat someone when nobody's looking. It's another thing entirely to steal from thousands of people in broad daylight in the public's view. rg