how to play aqo with many limpers

[Guest Anonymous]

exactly i thought so.. nothing to say to my post other then some dumass comment... i guess paul phillips could not make u realize how much of a retard you are.Paul replied to one of my posts while was asleep, was wrong, and then enver posted when I replied.Fail to see the big deal there, frankly.I wasn't kidding about the castration thing, by the way.You shouldn't breed.

yea ok .. im amputating my balls as we speak.. (sw)

[Smasharoo 0]

yea ok .. im amputating my balls as we speak.. (sw)Nice.They make good earings.

[Guest Anonymous]

yea ok .. im amputating my balls as we speak.. (sw)Nice.They make good earings.

actually i was thinking about donating them to you.. seeing that you have none. or you can use them as earrings as well

[Smasharoo 0]

actually i was thinking about donating them to you.. seeing that you have none. or you can use them as earrings as wellMine are the size of churchbells.Everyone knows I'm 500 feet tall and bulletproof.

[custom36 4]

actually i was thinking about donating them to you.. seeing that you have none. or you can use them as earrings as wellMine are the size of churchbells.Everyone knows I'm 500 feet tall and bulletproof.

Pwned!

[avsfan 0]

Everyone knows I'm 500 feet tall and bulletproof.

ROFLMAO!!!

[bigkg 0]

The best part of this thread is that we have discovered about three new village idiots.

[Guest Anonymous]

actually i was thinking about donating them to you.. seeing that you have none. or you can use them as earrings as wellMine are the size of churchbells.Everyone knows I'm 500 feet tall and bulletproof.

oh u mean those small churbells some teachers have ? that are like 1/2 and inch in diameter.

[bigkg 0]

actually i was thinking about donating them to you.. seeing that you have none. or you can use them as earrings as wellMine are the size of churchbells.Everyone knows I'm 500 feet tall and bulletproof.

oh u mean those small churbells some teachers have ? that are like 1/2 and inch in diameter.

Worst. Comeback. Ever.

[justblaze 0]

where do these people come from?

[checkymcfold 0]

sorry to bump this again, but i read about half of this thread, and it's really the funniest thing i've ever seen. i can't even believe that this has turned into eight pages of argument.i'm probably going to repeat a lot of stuff that was said, but:aq is an always raise against donkeys at lower limits. always. even if i know one of the six children has a pair that "beats" me marginally preflop. this much has been adequately justified.but i do want to add the following:yes, sklansky says otherwise in HEPAP. (page 161, if you're picky). he (and harmon, as far as i can tell) is not talking about 2/4, 3/6, or even 5/10 here. a loose 10/20 or above game is not usually a bunch of donkeys. it is a group of very aggressive postflop players (in my experience) who will often make you hit your preflop raises or they're going to checkraise you all day long and get you off a lot of hands that don't hit. these games are very, very rare, and that's why sklansky puts this little note in a section about loose MID/UPPER LEVEL games that are NOT NORMAL MID/UPPER LEVEL GAMES. indeed, it is often correct to limp with position and high aces in these sorts of games so you don't give away your hand and can utilize position for more bets when you hit. and even though i understand where sklansky's coming from here, i think he's wrong about how to beat these sorts of games for the most possible money. as others have said, you're better off sometimes raising limping hands in order to gain deception rather than limping raising hands. but we're getting off the subject at hand...the point is this: if you're thinking like this in a 2/4 or 3/6 game you're losing money. 2/4 and 3/6 players aren't thinking about what you have. they're not going to raise you on the flop for information so they know if they can send out a bluff on the turn and maybe make you go away. they're masturbating to the T6s hand that has "lots of possibilities" in front of them, and don't give a shit what you have.. at least half of these idiots have some garbage like this, and if you're not punishing them for playing these crap hands, you're not making as much money as you should at the lower limits. period.i hope that helps clear up why a couple of you are misreading sections of supersystem2 and HEPAP.

[Fluffyfrog 0]

I agree with you on sklanksy, checkymcfold, but like i said in my last post a while ago:"I buy the argument that in higher limit games, people are better, and you should therefore think twice about raising. Still - what confuses me, is that Jennifer Harman is in my opinion _not_ learning an already good player how to play excellent i late position, she is rather giving general guidelines to a new player. Take a look at the first part of her limit-section. It is not very complex, is it? So, i would say that she is giving guidelines that can be used at lower limits like 2/4, 3/6 etc. And again, i say this based on my view that she is not tutoring the high-stakes player in this part of her limit-section."I must say this thread has been an interesting read!

[Smasharoo 0]

Still - what confuses me, is that Jennifer Harman is in my opinion _not_ learning an already good player how to play excellent i late position, she is rather giving general guidelines to a new player.Yeah, she's wrong.Why is that so hard for people?Miler's right, Jenny's wrong. Big deal.

[checkymcfold 0]

I agree with you on sklanksy, checkymcfold, but like i said in my last post a while ago:"I buy the argument that in higher limit games, people are better, and you should therefore think twice about raising.  Still - what confuses me, is that Jennifer Harman is in my opinion _not_ learning an already good player how to play excellent i late position, she is rather giving general guidelines to a new player.  Take a look at the first part of her limit-section. It is not very complex, is it?  So, i would say that she is giving guidelines that can be used at lower limits like 2/4, 3/6 etc. And again, i say this based on my view that she is not tutoring the high-stakes player in this part of her limit-section."I must say this thread has been an interesting read!  

to be completely honest, i haven't read supersystem2. i was gathering harman's position based on the other posts i read. if she is indeed talking about lower limits, she's flat out wrong on this not raising stuff--i agree with smash--unless she's talking about some amazing 3/6 limit game i have never encountered in my life. if anyone happens to play at one of these superstud low limit games, learn table selection.one of the biggest mistakes players make at the lower limits is overthinking their play. you don't need to think (much) against donkeys, which is who you're playing against if you're choosing the right tables up through 5/10 (and, yes, a lot of the 10/20 sessions i play). everyone plays like a robot. does a flop raise mean a bluff or a monster? it takes one hand to get this info and make a note. from then on in, you don't need to get all trixy.

[hoosierAKs 0]

I refuse to go through this thread more than a page after the OP.Raise, RAISE RAISE RAISE... and proceed post-flop with caution... and that doesn't mean folding to 1 bet when the flop comes T 8 4 Really don't feel like explaining it past that... you all are better men than I.

[Canada 0]

Maybe if we look at it another way...The major argument for the limp camp (how ironic that the weak/tights end up being called the 'limp camp') is that you are making it correct for gutshots and weak draws to call post flop by raising.Hello people! If we limp the pot is at least 8.5 SB (6 limpers + us + blinds) before the flop even arrives.For a flop bet all callers are being offered 9.5 to 1. Calling with gutshots is correct here, and this is the unraised pot. (the first moron that jumps up and says a gut shot needs 10.5-1 to call can take it as fact that they have no right to post on any poker forum ever again)Add that to the fact that we are assuming that the majority of our opponents are donks. They are going to call with their gutshots and their backdoors all day long, regardless of the pot size. That is why we call them fish/donks/farrellsIf they get a tiny part of the flop they will stay. If they have overs they will stay.The pot will be large enough for them if we don't raise or if we do - we are going to see these muppets at the river.Whatever we do now will not change our opponents play post flop to our detriment. Remember this bit.Another fact is that if the board comes AQ739 and somebody has 77 we will go to the river and lose wether we raised pre flop or not.The point is that if we go to the river we will win more than our fair share of the pots.If we play against 6 players for 700 hands we will win more than 100 of those hands - that is a mathematical fact.We get more money off the fish for paying their bad cardsAlso by raising we get to win almost every hand that is 'meant' to be ours because 6 other players have paid to make it correct for us to play our long shots. For example if the flop comes Q77, gets bet early with 2 callers and we 'know' at least one of them has the 7 we are correct to call for the Q if that is our only out if we have raised preflop.What you weak/tight limpers are being overwhelmed by is that, yes we may well lose this hand close to 85% of the time.The occasions we do win though the pot will be so big that it will offset those 85% of loses.

[Smasharoo 0]

Calling with gutshots is correct hereLikely not the turn, though. Which is the point.Not that I agre with limping.

[Canada 0]

Calling with gutshots is correct hereLikely not the turn, though.  Which is the point.Not that I agre with limping.

Actually the point is...They are going to call with their gutshots and their backdoors all day long, regardless of the pot size. That is why we call them fish/donks/farrells

[Smasharoo 0]

Actually the point is...They are going to call with their gutshots and their backdoors all day long, regardless of the pot size. That is why we call them fish/donks/farrells Right. So why make the turn call correct, is the theory.It misses that little part that most of them are going to be drawing close to dead on the flop if we flop well.

[hoosierAKs 0]

by the way,raise.

[RISEorFall 0]

is this really still an issue? For those who think raising here is wrong, fine, go ahead and limp in all day. Or just save time and go ahead and send everyone at your table some cash and leave. This is retarded to argue this hand for 9 pages... (although about one of it was me and monkeydonk arguing)

[grass Da 55 0]

what!!! no one suggested a fold, this is an outrage.

[RISEorFall 0]

what!!! no one suggested a fold, this is an outrage.  

I did, twice.

[grass Da 55 0]

what!!! no one suggested a fold, this is an outrage.  

I did, twice.

oops, busted...i didn't actually read all 9 pages. did paul phillips post in here? thought i heard something about him.

[RISEorFall 0]

oops, busted...i didn't actually read all 9 pages. did paul phillips post in here? thought i heard something about him.

Something about him and Smash butting heads...I don't think this thread tho, maybe. I don't know his name on here if he has one.