could i have won more here?

[PrtyPSux 0]

this is getting interesting at 2+2

[Absolute 0]

this is getting interesting at 2+2

didn't go quite as smash expected.rather than "everyone laughing at me" as he suggested, he has 2+2's most respected micro limits poster tell him that the raise sucks.its a good read.

[princeof56k 0]

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Kc], [Jh]. 1 fold, Hero checks.UTG+1 is rated as a Gambler, CO doesn't have enough hands for an autorate, Button also not enough hands for an autorate...so not muchIt was early in a session also

Smash I want to see if I understand your logic correctly in raising KJo since I usually would not raise it here. Since UTG+1 is rated as a gambler and just called, he could be coming in with anything. And since its folded all the way around to the CO and Button, they could be limping in with all kinds of crap (Ax, Kx, ect). By raising you might be getting more equity since you might be ahead AND you might be able to get a weak Ace to fold if an Ace comes on the flop (since a weak Ace is very likely here since no one raised before you).

Flop: (4.50 SB) [8c], [Kh], [Jd] (4 players)Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.Turn: (10.25 BB) [6c] (4 players)Hero bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

To try and understand the logic on why a set might be possible on the turn... Given the pre-flop action by itself, I would consider it unlikely that the button would limp with 88, JJ, KK. However considering all the action on the flop with the button never raising but staying in when it was capped, and then the button deciding to wake up on the bigger street and raise the people that were capping, someone limping in with 88, JJ, or even some idiot with KK becomes much more likely than just considering the pre-flop action by itself. I would probably still be thinking he hit 2 pair. Would the average player raise 2 pair here after a capped flop and with one of the flop raisers betting out?

[Absolute 0]

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Kc], [Jh]. 1 fold, Hero checks.UTG+1 is rated as a Gambler, CO doesn't have enough hands for an autorate, Button also not enough hands for an autorate...so not muchIt was early in a session also

Smash I want to see if I understand your logic correctly in raising KJo since I usually would not raise it here. Since UTG+1 is rated as a gambler and just called, he could be coming in with anything. And since its folded all the way around to the CO and Button, they could be limping in with all kinds of crap (Ax, Kx, ect). By raising you might be getting more equity since you might be ahead AND you might be able to get a weak Ace to fold if an Ace comes on the flop (since a weak Ace is very likely here since no one raised before you).

Flop: (4.50 SB) [8c], [Kh], [Jd] (4 players)Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.Turn: (10.25 BB) [6c] (4 players)Hero bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

To try and understand the logic on why a set might be possible on the turn... Given the pre-flop action by itself, I would consider it unlikely that the button would limp with 88, JJ, KK. However considering all the action on the flop with the button never raising but staying in when it was capped, and then the button deciding to wake up on the bigger street and raise the people that were capping, someone limping in with 88, JJ, or even some idiot with KK becomes much more likely than just considering the pre-flop action by itself. I would probably still be thinking he hit 2 pair. Would the average player raise 2 pair here after a capped flop and with one of the flop raisers betting out?

the turn should not even be up for argumentit is an incredibly easy 3bet.

[agsa6079 0]

Don't you people realize that Smash completely thrives on your arguing with him. It's not a matter of if you should preflop raise KJ from the big blind, it's a matter of intellectual inferiority. While Smash usually has solid advice (no big deal in and of itself, since many people here do), its a matter of arguing for the sake of feeling better about himself. He obviously gets satisfaction in being flamed and called an idiot because he convinces himself of his intellectual superiority. So, rather than make sound arguments about his choice of play, he chooses to take the position that everyone else is an idiot and doesn't understand the nuances of the game.Just for the record, raising KJ suited or not in the big blind w/ 3 callers is a losing play in the long run. Before you start arguing things like EV you should get a grasp on the fundamentals of the game.

[gobears 0]

Just for the record, raising KJ suited or not in the big blind w/ 3 callers is a losing play in the long run. Before you start arguing things like EV you should get a grasp on the fundamentals of the game.

I don't play much limit but I'm sure that raising KJs from the BB is standard.

[DKE_XP120 0]

While Smash usually has solid advice (no big deal in and of itself, since many people here do), its a matter of arguing for the sake of feeling better about himself. Just for the record, raising KJ suited or not in the big blind w/ 3 callers is a losing play in the long run. Before you start arguing things like EV you should get a grasp on the fundamentals of the game.

I'm gonna say you're wrong on both parts....Very wrong...Both parts...Not even right on one of them...Opposite of right...Wrong.How do you see raising KJs from the BB is -ev?Because i'd like to hear an explaination.

[avsfan 0]

I still think experienced players need to consider raising KJoff preflop in the situation vade describes. For the record new and average players should call (it is the right standard play). Raising is one of those wrong plays that is the right play for the right player.This is not the 2+2 forum. Btw I am not anti or pro 2+2Fwiw & Imho

[Smasharoo 0]

Don't you people realize that Smash completely thrives on your arguing with him. It's not a matter of if you should preflop raise KJ from the big blind, it's a matter of intellectual inferiority. While Smash usually has solid advice (no big deal in and of itself, since many people here do)Just for the record, raising KJ suited or not in the big blind w/ 3 callers is a losing play in the long run. Before you start arguing things like EV you should get a grasp on the fundamentals of the game.Why it's a big deal.I don't argue .50/1 plays for my ego.In fact that's why I left before. People who have no idea what they're talking about, like you for instance, couldn't deal with simple logic because of their ego and would become obsessed with proving me "wrong" on any subject at all.Not raising KJs there is beyond horrible. SSHE will tell you that. 2+2 will tell you that. I imagine if there was book published called "Poker for fucking Raimanesque retards who grossly overvalue their understanding of Holdem" was published, just for you, it'd say that too.You clearly don't uinderstand EV *at all* and apparently have seen so many people use the term that you thought you'd through it in there. You might as well have said "Antidisestablishmentarisim" in it's place instead.If you want to get better at Holdem, you'll listen to me. If you want to be a shitty player with a big ego, stay the course.I think we'll al know which you'll chose.Thanks for your kind support of my posts. You clearly read every one and have a deep smoldering man love for me.

[Absolute 0]

Don't you people realize that Smash completely thrives on your arguing with him. It's not a matter of if you should preflop raise KJ from the big blind, it's a matter of intellectual inferiority. While Smash usually has solid advice (no big deal in and of itself, since many people here do)Just for the record, raising KJ suited or not in the big blind w/ 3 callers is a losing play in the long run. Before you start arguing things like EV you should get a grasp on the fundamentals of the game.Why it's a big deal.I don't argue .50/1 plays for my ego.In fact that's why I left before. People who have no idea what they're talking about, like you for instance, couldn't deal with simple logic because of their ego and would become obsessed with proving me "wrong" on any subject at all.Not raising KJs there is beyond horrible. SSHE will tell you that. 2+2 will tell you that. I imagine if there was book published called "Poker for censored Raimanesque retards who grossly overvalue their understanding of Holdem" was published, just for you, it'd say that too.You clearly don't uinderstand EV *at all* and apparently have seen so many people use the term that you thought you'd through it in there. You might as well have said "Antidisestablishmentarisim" in it's place instead.If you want to get better at Holdem, you'll listen to me. If you want to be a shitty player with a big ego, stay the course.I think we'll al know which you'll chose.Thanks for your kind support of my posts. You clearly read every one and have a deep smoldering man love for me.

on that note, SSHE does not advocate raising KJo from the blinds.KJs is of course a raise.

[Smasharoo 0]

on that note, SSHE does not advocate raising KJo from the blinds.KJs is of course a raise.Thanks for repeating what I just posted, Corky.On a side note, that may have been your most usefull post everI like particularly how you say KJs is "of course" a raise.As if you had advocated it long ago then discovered that SSHE said the same.You, of course, have absolutely no clue why you raise KJs and not KJ.But then you barely understand the game, at all..

[DKE_XP120 0]

Not raising KJs there is beyond horrible. SSHE will tell you that. 2+2 will tell you that. I imagine if there was book published called "Poker for fucking Raimanesque retards who grossly overvalue their understanding of Holdem" was published, just for you, it'd say that too.

i'm sorry, if you cant read that and laugh, then you are a corpse. :clap: Thank you smash, that was great

[Absolute 0]

on that note, SSHE does not advocate raising KJo from the blinds.KJs is of course a raise.Thanks for repeating what I just posted, Corky.On a side note, that may have been your most usefull post everI like particularly how you say KJs is "of course" a raise.As if you had advocated it long ago then discovered that SSHE said the same.You, of course, have absolutely no clue why you raise KJs and not KJ.But then you barely understand the game, at all..

why dont you go get pwned on 2+2 again?or make false speculations about how they will respond to a hand?or you could lurk around here all day and get things wrong again.lose/lose situation really.i suggest you just go get fresh air.

[Smasharoo 0]

why dont you go get pwned on 2+2 again?or make false speculations about how they will respond to a hand? You mean the hand where Entity said three-betting was bad because lots of people limp with JJ?Just want to make sure we're talking about the same hand.You stopped reading the thread, huh?Hahaha.Funny stuff.

[Absolute 0]

why dont you go get pwned on 2+2 again?or make false speculations about how they will respond to a hand? You mean the hand where Entity said three-betting was bad because lots of people limp with JJ?Just want to make sure we're talking about the same hand.You stopped reading the thread, huh?Hahaha.Funny stuff.

three-betting the turn is easydidnt you try to back out of saying it wasn't?ive actually had a good laugh with a few posters from both forums who noticed that one.dont you have a sick wife?are you really going to follow me around here all day again?

[avsfan 0]

The only grey area with KJsuited is when to call two cold.Imho

[Smasharoo 0]

three-betting the turn is easydidnt you try to back out of saying it wasn't?ive actually had a good laugh with a few posters from both forums who noticed that one.dont you have a sick wife?are you really going to follow me around here all day again?Mention my wife again and I'll drive to your house and cave in the side of your skull with an aluminum baseball bat.Just kiddin!! :)You've convinced me, though. I'll never again answer one of your brain dead posts, or laugh at how little you understtand the game.You're now persona non grata.You don't exist to me. Have a nice life.

[Absolute 0]

three-betting the turn is easydidnt you try to back out of saying it wasn't?ive actually had a good laugh with a few posters from both forums who noticed that one.dont you have a sick wife?are you really going to follow me around here all day again?Mention my wife again and I'll drive to your house and cave in the side of your skull with an aluminum baseball bat.Just kiddin!! :)You've convinced me, though. I'll never again answer one of your brain dead posts, or laugh at how little you understtand the game.You're now persona non grata.You don't exist to me. Have a nice life.

figures youd be quick to become a "hardass although I said nothing inflammatory about your wife whatsoever. The insult was directed towards you, I have no misdirected hate towards someone whom I will never meet.im glad youve decided im not worth your timeit was starting to get ugly for youalthough i seriously doubt that you will be able stay away for long.

[avsfan 0]

Reraise the turn.Imho.

[speedz99 145]

That was a great thread on 2+2. Absolute, you crossed the line and do deserve the baseball bat treatment.Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything. When that happens I'll be drinking a beer in your honor.

[Smasharoo 0]

Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything.I was wrong about most people raising KJo.I still think it's the play though.

[speedz99 145]

Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything.I was wrong about most people raising KJo.I still think it's the play though.

Fair enough. I'll be having a Guiness in your honor (like I needed another excuse to drink).

[Absolute 0]

That was a great thread on 2+2.  Absolute, you crossed the line and do deserve the baseball bat treatment.Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything.  When that happens I'll be drinking a beer in your honor.

since im obviously concerned with lines being crossedi think thats an overreaction

[speedz99 145]

That was a great thread on 2+2.  Absolute, you crossed the line and do deserve the baseball bat treatment.Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything.  When that happens I'll be drinking a beer in your honor.

since im obviously concerned with lines being crossedi think thats an overreaction

I never said that you were concerned with it. Of course, you always say you don't care and you're through with things, and proceed to post again minutes later :-) .Maybe it's an overreaction, but what you said sucks. I don't care who the insult was intended for, it's just a shitty move that has no place anywhere, especially on a forum that should be for fun and education.Whatever, it's obviously not the end of the world. Just try to keep everything in good humor.

[Absolute 0]

That was a great thread on 2+2.  Absolute, you crossed the line and do deserve the baseball bat treatment.Smash, I can't wait until the day when you finally admit you were wrong about something...anything.  When that happens I'll be drinking a beer in your honor.

since im obviously concerned with lines being crossedi think thats an overreaction

I never said that you were concerned with it. Of course, you always say you don't care and you're through with things, and proceed to post again minutes later :-) .Maybe it's an overreaction, but what you said sucks. I don't care who the insult was intended for, it's just a shitty move that has no place anywhere, especially on a forum that should be for fun and education.Whatever, it's obviously not the end of the world. Just try to keep everything in good humor.

fair enough.