2013 Nhl Signings/trades

[dEv~ 19]

The biggest problem with this is the precedent it sets. It mutually benefitted the team and the plalyer so neither had a problem walking away. But shouldn't the NHL care about losing another star player to the KHL?

[Zach6668 513]

What exactly do you expect them to do?

[serge 904]

What exactly do you expect them to do?

 

Not sure if there is anything they can do. But what happens if Ovechkin and Malkin did the same?

 

Could be a huge headache for the league.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Not sure if there is anything they can do. But what happens if Ovechkin and Malkin did the same?

 

Could be a huge headache for the league.

 

They wouldn't be allowed to play in the Olympics for example if they left while under contract.

[dEv~ 19]

I don't know what they could do. What's the point of a contract if players can just walk away and play somewhere else. I thought the IIHF would care. It benefits Kovalchuk and the Devils and to a lesser degree the teams that have to play them but hurts the NHL for sure.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I don't think we'll see many players walking away from millions of dollars.

[mrdannyg 274]

I don't know what they could do. What's the point of a contract if players can just walk away and play somewhere else. I thought the IIHF would care. It benefits Kovalchuk and the Devils and to a lesser degree the teams that have to play them but hurts the NHL for sure.

 

You guys really that this is true of every single contract, right? Not just hockey, but general contract law. If both/all parties to a contract agree to void it, they can do so.

 

Contracts are by nature an adversarial process. In any ongoing contract, one side will usually be getting more or less value - there's no reason for that party to be willing to 'get out' of the contract for free (in most contracts, one side could just pay the other a suitable sum to void it, but due to salary cap implications, the NHL does have to structure those situations). In this case, Kovalchuk gave up something significant to 'get out' of a contract where you could argue he was ahead. That will not happen with any regularity.

 

If Ovechkin/Malkin go to the KHL, we have a problem. But the possibility that all of a sudden teams/players will start voiding contracts unconditionally is not going to be one.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Ilya Kovalchuk signs four-year deal with SKA St Petersburg

 

 

 

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nhl/news/20130715/ilya-kovalchuk-ska-st-petersburg.ap/#ixzz2Z7V3zs1o

[digitalmonkey 929]

It wouldn't surprise me if the NHL's letting Kovalchuk go wasn't some part of a deal regarding the Olympics.

[mrdannyg 274]

It wouldn't surprise me if the NHL's letting Kovalchuk go wasn't some part of a deal regarding the Olympics.

 

I'm interested...go on...

 

 

edit - did they really 'let him go' though? When some 4th-liner and his team agree to void a contract, is the NHL's sign-off required? I really don't know the answer to that - I assume that just like there are buyout rules, there are rules surrounding voiding contracts, and the NHL couldn't say no if they wanted...

[digitalmonkey 929]

I'm interested...go on...

 

 

edit - did they really 'let him go' though? When some 4th-liner and his team agree to void a contract, is the NHL's sign-off required? I really don't know the answer to that - I assume that just like there are buyout rules, there are rules surrounding voiding contracts, and the NHL couldn't say no if they wanted...

 

The NHL could have refused to void the contract prohibiting Kovalchuk from being allowed to play anywhere else. The NHL stated they didn't do this because the Devils didn't object to voiding the contract.

 

I have no idea what kind of deal would take place (perhaps cash for the Devils who have a load of debt), but it all smells a little рыбный and seems a little to convenient for everyone involved.

 

 

"If Kovalchuk is true to his word, that his desire to return to Russia outweighed his desire to continue in the NHL, this avenue was his only choice.

 

Had he bolted, the Devils simply could have suspended him, retaining his rights. Had he signed with a KHL team while still under contract with the Devils it would have violated rules governing an agreement between the NHL and KHL not to poach each other’s players.

 

Also, the International Ice Hockey Federation could have suspended Kovalchuk from international play, including suspending him from the 2014 Winter Games in Russia, a tournament he certainly wants to play in."

Source

[FCP Bob 1,312]

It all has to do with New Jersey's financial position.

 

Reports are that the Kovy contract was scaring away potential investors.

 

Kovy wanted to go back to Russia. The Devils needed to be out from under that contract. The NHL needs New Jersey to get financing.

 

Those are all the dots that need connecting.

[serge 904]

Why isnt this allowed for Luongo?

 

It has been stated by both sides that the contract is not beneficial to both parties...

 

The Canucks would of loved to void the contract..Luongo stated that he would also love to rip up the contract..

 

I think this sets a precedence(as Kovalchuk has previously) and it shouldnt have been allowed.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Why isnt this allowed for Luongo?

 

It has been stated by both sides that the contract is not beneficial to both parties...

 

The Canucks would of loved to void the contract..Luongo stated that he would also love to rip up the contract..

 

I think this sets a precedence(as Kovalchuk has previously) and it shouldnt have been allowed.

 

because Luongo doesn't really mean that he wants the contract voided. That would cost him millions and millions of dollars and he still wants to play in the NHL.

[mrdannyg 274]

The NHL could have refused to void the contract prohibiting Kovalchuk from being allowed to play anywhere else. The NHL stated they didn't do this because the Devils didn't object to voiding the contract.

 

I have no idea what kind of deal would take place (perhaps cash for the Devils who have a load of debt), but it all smells a little рыбный and seems a little to convenient for everyone involved.

 

 

"If Kovalchuk is true to his word, that his desire to return to Russia outweighed his desire to continue in the NHL, this avenue was his only choice.

 

Had he bolted, the Devils simply could have suspended him, retaining his rights. Had he signed with a KHL team while still under contract with the Devils it would have violated rules governing an agreement between the NHL and KHL not to poach each other’s players.

 

Also, the International Ice Hockey Federation could have suspended Kovalchuk from international play, including suspending him from the 2014 Winter Games in Russia, a tournament he certainly wants to play in."

Source

 

The wording does make it sound like the NHL had to give 'permission,' but it doesn't explicitly say that their permission was required, at least insofar as the Devils agreeing did not necessitate their permission. It only implies that they wouldn't have given permission if the Devils didn't agree, which is obvious, since the CBA rules wouldn't allow for what happened without the Devils permission.

 

Why isnt this allowed for Luongo?

 

It has been stated by both sides that the contract is not beneficial to both parties...

 

The Canucks would of loved to void the contract..Luongo stated that he would also love to rip up the contract..

 

I think this sets a precedence(as Kovalchuk has previously) and it shouldnt have been allowed.

 

Can't imagine that Luongo would willingly rip up that contract for no money. I'd imagine the NHLPA was a silent participant in all this too - Kovalchuk wasn't a significantly overpaying contract, but we can imagine a situation where a player was severely overpaid for his contract, so the team doesn't play him at all, hoping he'll be unhappy and offer to Kovy his contract.

 

I think the important thing for all this is to remember that these rules have always been available. It's not as if someone just discovered a loophole - plenty of players have been bought out using this, they've just been minor ones we don't care about. Now, maybe people like Luongo will give it extra consideration since it's made the media rounds, but any agent in the world was aware of the possibility (and it'd be a boon for them, since it'd mean a new contract!) - it is just so rarely the right decision for the team and player to void a deal.

[digitalmonkey 929]

The wording does make it sound like the NHL had to give 'permission,' but it doesn't explicitly say that their permission was required, at least insofar as the Devils agreeing did not necessitate their permission. It only implies that they wouldn't have given permission if the Devils didn't agree, which is obvious, since the CBA rules wouldn't allow for what happened without the Devils permission.

 

 

 

Can't imagine that Luongo would willingly rip up that contract for no money. I'd imagine the NHLPA was a silent participant in all this too - Kovalchuk wasn't a significantly overpaying contract, but we can imagine a situation where a player was severely overpaid for his contract, so the team doesn't play him at all, hoping he'll be unhappy and offer to Kovy his contract.

 

I think the important thing for all this is to remember that these rules have always been available. It's not as if someone just discovered a loophole - plenty of players have been bought out using this, they've just been minor ones we don't care about. Now, maybe people like Luongo will give it extra consideration since it's made the media rounds, but any agent in the world was aware of the possibility (and it'd be a boon for them, since it'd mean a new contract!) - it is just so rarely the right decision for the team and player to void a deal.

 

You realize Kovalchuk wasn't bought out, right?

[mrdannyg 274]

You realize Kovalchuk wasn't bought out, right?

 

Yes. Doesn't change what I said, except that using the term "bought out" in the last paragraph is confusing. Change "bought out" to "released" I guess.

[Zach6668 513]

An unhappy, overpaid player can't just get Kovy'd. He'd be signing his retirement papers and not eligible to re-enter the NHL unless all 30 teams unanimously allow it, for something like the first 3 seasons. After that, my understanding is that Kovy would still need NJ's permission to return to the league.

 

Danny, I think you're making a lot of assumptions with this. It's a simple thing that happens all the time. The player is retiring from the NHL. Kovalchuk submitted his papers and the Devils signed off on it. The Devils could have tried to block it, somehow, but it sounds like everyone had mature, civil discussions and agreed this would be the best for both parties, or at least, NJ decided that they would cede to keep it from being a huge ordeal, and having to keep an unhappy player around.

[serge 904]

An unhappy, overpaid player can't just get Kovy'd. He'd be signing his retirement papers and not eligible to re-enter the NHL unless all 30 teams unanimously allow it, for something like the first 3 seasons. After that, my understanding is that Kovy would still need NJ's permission to return to the league.

 

Danny, I think you're making a lot of assumptions with this. It's a simple thing that happens all the time. The player is retiring from the NHL. Kovalchuk submitted his papers and the Devils signed off on it. The Devils could have tried to block it, somehow, but it sounds like everyone had mature, civil discussions and agreed this would be the best for both parties, or at least, NJ decided that they would cede to keep it from being a huge ordeal, and having to keep an unhappy player around.

 

The argument is Kovalchuk is better off, the Devils are better off..But the fact that the Devils signed a stupid contract that they should be stuck with, now all of a sudden disappears..With VERY little penalty..

[Zach6668 513]

Well their penalty is they don't have their best player.

[serge 904]

Well their penalty is they don't have their best player.

 

So everyone wins, except the fans.

[digitalmonkey 929]

The argument is Kovalchuk is better off, the Devils are better off..But the fact that the Devils signed a stupid contract that they should be stuck with, now all of a sudden disappears..With VERY little penalty..

 

Why should they be stuck with it if both team and player agree to tear it up? They are being penalized a cap hit of $250,000 every season until 2025; it's CBA recapture rules for the retirement of a player under 35.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Yes. Doesn't change what I said, except that using the term "bought out" in the last paragraph is confusing. Change "bought out" to "released" I guess.

 

Well, it changes the accuracy of your statement that many players have been bought out using this.

[digitalmonkey 929]

There's no way Luongo is walking away from his contract, but here are what his recapture numbers would be according to CapGeek:

 

http://capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/?contract_id=1988&player_id=683&recapture_submit=set&retirement_year=2013&trade=0&acquiring_team=6&in_season_trade=-1&in_season_traded_year=2012&season_percentage=1&off_season_traded_year=2013

[serge 904]

Why should they be stuck with it if both team and player agree to tear it up? They are being penalized a cap hit of $250,000 every season until 2025; it's CBA recapture rules for the retirement of a player under 35.

 

Because its not right for the competitiveness of the league..There is a salary cap for a reason..