Off Topic, Kinda.....

[serge 904]

Serge don't be a fool. Donald Trump becoming president would be a gigantic disaster for the world. Forget about the democratic/republican bullshit. This isn't about right wing/left wing ideals. It's about a psychopath possibly becoming president of the most powerful nation in the world. You say we don't know anything about trump. You should go and do some actual research about some of the things he has said, and the policies he would like to implement. If you can still say with a rational mind that you support him, and that you think he would be a good president, then I don't even know what to say. He is a hate mongering racist who is trying to use white America's ingrained racism and xenophobia to gain office.

 

Saying "I like Trump except for that whole not letting any muslims into the country thing" is exactly like saying "Hitler was a great leader, I mean, he didn't like Jews, which I don't agree with but still, great leader."

 

This is the problem...There is a disconnect..

 

Even the hint of you saying I would support Hitler is very very upsetting and I choose not to engage ..

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

What makes Trudeau a good leader? Because he is young and good looking?

Because he will continue to unilaterally back the US and England and the rest of the UN, without having any thought of his own?

Just curious.

Not assuming you are a Trudeau supporter, just putting it out there.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by putting it out there. I didnt vote for Trudeau, and I didnt say I would vote for Trudeau or Democrats or Liberals or Obama, or anyone. If you are asking my allegiance, I didnt vote in the last election because I felt grossly ill informed this time around. And frankly, I mean ill informed for the last few years, not just the 60days of the campaign that many seem to base their vote on.

If I had to say, I probably would have voted PC because I usually back their economic views.

 

 

But unlike me, you pronounced your allegiance to Trump and all things Republican. And so I asked why. I don't think it was calling you out to ask why you want to vote a certain way, when you are so dead set for it. Especially when you were the one correctly pointing out that Trump has not fared well as a businessman, and yet many seem to think this illformed man (in terms of economics) is somehow up for the most important(debatable) job in the world.

 

I am always amazed at how so many care about things like Burkas, immigrants, terrorism and guns, when really it will have little to no effect on your life.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Gun control is about money. Funny thing that follow the money mantra.

[gruven 530]

Arp good question and Ill try to answer it to the best of my ability..The main reason I like Trump is that he isnt a politician. The main problem with politics is that politicians are mostly liars and will tell you what you want to hear to get elected..They will pander to the lobbyists, they will change their beliefs based on where the money is coming from.

 

I also have a problem with losing our values due to becoming politically correct..I cant say Merry Xmas, I have to watch what I say at the risk of sounding racist. Trump goes back to old fashioned values...

 

He says whats on his mind, and he doesnt care if you believe it..This is a democracy, if more people agree with Trump and his beliefs then he will be president , simple as that.

 

My political beliefs are definitively right wing. I believe in a lot of the Republican values..Danny might think thats racist , but I dont believe it is.

 

Obama has been a disaster in my opinion. His whole debacle with Obamacare, his lack of handling the problems that has led to Americans being the target of these extremist...

Serge,

What if this was 1916 and Trump was talking about Armenian refugees?

[gruven 530]

Gun control is about money. Funny thing that follow the money mantra.

The Gun industry, NRA, and Lobby are all about money. So if you follow the money in the gun control argument, you get to both sides. Money is integral to our society, so virtually everything on every level is connected to money.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Seriously though...the problem is there are no good candidates to vote for. You're essentially choosing the lesser of two evils. The system is ****ed and flawed and corrupt. It's a joke and people spend more time arguing republican vs Democrat blah blah blah instead of acknowledging that they all suck and in the end it doesn't matter who you vote for.

 

Ya, in many ways, pretty much this. But its not because all the candidates suck, its because the truly worthy candidates don't make it, they aren't exciting enough, attention grabbers or good looking or whatever.

I truly believe there are many good people in politics, who really did get into it with a desire to help and serve the public. But the system is just so grossly inefficient and flawed, they got bogged down in the swamp of sh*t and cant get anywhere.

[digitalmonkey 929]

The Gun industry, NRA, and Lobby are all about money. So if you follow the money in the gun control argument, you get to both sides. Money is integral to our society, so virtually everything on every level is connected to money.

 

So are you saying it doesn't matter who gets voted in?

[digitalmonkey 929]

 

 

Ya, in many ways, pretty much this. But its not because all the candidates suck, its because the truly worthy candidates don't make it, they aren't exciting enough, attention grabbers or good looking or whatever.

I truly believe there are many good people in politics, who really did get into it with a desire to help and serve the public. But the system is just so grossly inefficient and flawed, they got bogged down in the swamp of sh*t and cant get anywhere.

Maybe they get assigned to deal with all the chemtrail emails.

[serge 904]

Serge,

What if this was 1916 and Trump was talking about Armenian refugees?

 

You are probably not informed as most people...But we are actually talking about Armenian refugees now...1000s have families have already come into Canada into the Armenian community in Toronto among other places..

 

I am actually going to choose to not engage in anymore discussion in this topic as I dont like getting attacked for my political and religious beliefs.

 

Thats one thing I learned at a young age is to respect everyone elses views , no matter how much I disagree with them.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Serge, you often confuse disagreement with being attacked. Just saying. You can vote for whomever you like.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Last year a jeweller was robbed at gunpoint by two males who were disguised as wearing burqas, and were let into the store.

How much crap would that store owner get into today if they said no head covering of any kind allowed for entry into the store, including a burqa?

What would you guys think of an establishment that had such a sign on the door, esp one requiring high security?

 

This isn't really happening, just a conversation I had with a customer this morning.

[Dubey 1,035]

Saying "I think trump would be a good president" is not a political or religious view. It's just horribly stupid, misinformed, and potentially dangerous thing to say, let alone believe.

 

and Serge, be offended if you want, but the parallels to Hitler are not huge jumps of rhetoric, they are very direct and very real. There are frighteningly few steps between "Don't let any muslims in" to "Muslims are no longer welcome in this country"

[gruven 530]

You are probably not informed as most people...But we are actually talking about Armenian refugees now...1000s have families have already come into Canada into the Armenian community in Toronto among other places..

 

I am actually going to choose to not engage in anymore discussion in this topic as I dont like getting attacked for my political and religious beliefs.

 

Thats one thing I learned at a young age is to respect everyone elses views , no matter how much I disagree with them.

I do respect your views. And, as we have been doing with Dale, engaging in polite, intelligent debate is a good thing. I was just trying to put a perspective on the situation. What if we substituted 'muslim' for 'Armenian'. Or, for that matter, 'muslim' with 'scottish'? Even his own party backed away from Trump today as fast as possible, since Xenophobic platforms are anti-human race.

[serge 904]

Serge, you often confuse disagreement with being attacked. Just saying. You can vote for whomever you like.

 

I believe it was suggested that supporting Donald Trump and the Republican party is stupid and hateful..Thats why I wont engage in political discussions..

[serge 904]

Last year a jeweller was robbed at gunpoint by two males who were disguised as wearing burqas, and were let into the store.

How much crap would that store owner get into today if they said no head covering of any kind allowed for entry into the store, including a burqa?

What would you guys think of an establishment that had such a sign on the door, esp one requiring high security?

 

This isn't really happening, just a conversation I had with a customer this morning.

 

I am pretty sure you can do that...I am not sure what the rule is now, but when I worked in a bank, you werent allowed to walk in if your face was covered...For example wearing a ski mask...It would probably apply to a full Burqa...Its just safety

[gruven 530]

So are you saying it doesn't matter who gets voted in?

To a certain degree, that's true. Doesn't matter if you're a republican, democrat, communist, Tea Party, or anything else. Once you get a vote in any level of government, you will be subjected to massive amounts of lobbying and lobbying $$$. And, for that matter, getting elected is pretty damn difficult (more in the US than in Canada) without money behind you.

[Dubey 1,035]

Supporting Donald trump and supporting the republican party are not the same thing. One is a completely rational decision that while I don't agree with I can definitely understand. The other is completely outlandish to me.

[serge 904]

I do respect your views. And, as we have been doing with Dale, engaging in polite, intelligent debate is a good thing. I was just trying to put a perspective on the situation. What if we substituted 'muslim' for 'Armenian'. Or, for that matter, 'muslim' with 'scottish'? Even his own party backed away from Trump today as fast as possible, since Xenophobic platforms are anti-human race.

 

I have been watching CNN and FOX all morning...His supporters havent backed off , but a lot of people are backing off...Again I dont have to support a 100 percent of the things the man says..What he said was naturally stupid..

 

If you guys believe a lot of Republicans and Democrats arent racist you are all fooled..They are just more polished in politics than Trump and control what they say..

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Supporting Donald trump and supporting the republican party are not the same thing. One is a completely rational decision that while I don't agree with I can definitely understand. The other is completely outlandish to me.

 

curious Dave, would you have said this before the no Muslims thing? when/why exactly was he outlandish?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Last year a jeweller was robbed at gunpoint by two males who were disguised as wearing burqas, and were let into the store.

How much crap would that store owner get into today if they said no head covering of any kind allowed for entry into the store, including a burqa?

What would you guys think of an establishment that had such a sign on the door, esp one requiring high security?

 

This isn't really happening, just a conversation I had with a customer this morning.

 

Head covering or face covering? I think a store owner should have a right to refuse to allow anyone into their store if their identity is concealed. It's a security issue and not specifically a religious issue. It's not much different than requiring students to leave their backpacks at the front of a store.

 

Brb...gonna puchase the domain shoppingforMuslims.com

[mrdannyg 274]

I don't know. A lifetime Netflix subscription for their 6-month-old child?

...assuming there actually is a child and it was theirs.

 

Are you suggesting that nobody has ever agreed to carry out a mission in which they knew they would die?

 

Then again, maybe they were naive enough to believe they wouldn't be killed.

 

I think it is more likely that people were willing to go on a mission where they were willing to be killed based on personal beliefs, rather than a corporate directive. Just pointing out that what you considered a gap in the "official" version is equally a gap in most alternatives.

 

Arp good question and Ill try to answer it to the best of my ability..The main reason I like Trump is that he isnt a politician. The main problem with politics is that politicians are mostly liars and will tell you what you want to hear to get elected..They will pander to the lobbyists, they will change their beliefs based on where the money is coming from.

 

I also have a problem with losing our values due to becoming politically correct..I cant say Merry Xmas, I have to watch what I say at the risk of sounding racist. Trump goes back to old fashioned values...

 

He says whats on his mind, and he doesnt care if you believe it..This is a democracy, if more people agree with Trump and his beliefs then he will be president , simple as that.

 

My political beliefs are definitively right wing. I believe in a lot of the Republican values..Danny might think thats racist , but I dont believe it is.

 

Obama has been a disaster in my opinion. His whole debacle with Obamacare, his lack of handling the problems that has led to Americans being the target of these extremist...

 

I don't think it is racist if it isn't racist. Pretending that a Muslim is any more likely to be a terrorist than a Christian is racist (or that the term "terrorist" has any actual indication of how bad a person is).

 

For the aspects of Obama being soft causing guns to be available or the U.S. to be a target, I find it hard to believe that you can be that dumb, frankly. No one is guilt-free on guns, but the Republicans are way further on the issue than Democrats. You want guns gotten rid of...but you think you are better off voting for a Republican than Clinton? That makes no sense. Also, the worst terrorist attacks took place under Republican leadership, not Democrats. That's because what makes the U.S. a target isn't "weakness", it is strength. Going to war against with whatever faction agrees to sell you oil in Muslim-dominated countries makes you a target. Calling Muslims "high risk" or restricting the movement of people based on religion makes you a target. Restricting people from congregating with their communities and creating a comfortable environment where they live makes you a target. What doesn't make you a target - being welcoming and open to people of different beliefs and backgrounds, allowing them to worship and live in safety and comfort and peace.

 

I dont really care if Americans are not well liked...I care to defend the nation. If we will save one innocent American child's life and piss off 10000 syrians by not allowing them to come in LEGALLY , I think we have done a good job.

 

Americans are becoming a targer, because Obama and the Democrats are soft...We need a leader like Putin..

 

Why is the life of an American more valuable than the life of a Syrian?

 

You need a leader like Putin who has committed several acts of war in the past couple years, actively putting the life of military and citizens at risk for the benefit of a tiny wealthy elite?

 

Homeland security reported today that they have information that ISIS extremists have already attempted to use the Syrian refugee program to enter the country..

 

I'm sure they have. And shocker, the extremely difficult steps to becoming a refugee prevented them from doing so. Did you know that a refugee to the United States has NEVER been arrested for committing a terrorist act? There have been 3 terror-related arrests in history for refugees, all of which took place prior to any crime, and all were considered 'unlikely' by the FBI.

 

Also, why are we preventing Syrians since the Paris attack, which was conducted by French citizens (and one Belgian). Shouldn't we be banning the French? There is no relationships between Syrians and recent terrorist attacks other than skin colour and religion, and I don't remember anyone calling for banning white people after Aurora or Sandy Hook, which at least actually took place in the United States.

 

 

Obama has the ability by executive power to take guns away from every criminal, terrorist and gangbanger in the country if he chose to do it...He hasnt , he is soft...

 

He absolutely does not, or anything close to that. I can't fathom how you could actually think that. And what, you think the Republicans will do that? hahahaha

 

What would you like me to say..

 

I agree that we should keep out illegal Mexicans , because they are taking legal jobs away from hard working Americans.

 

I agree that we shouldnt allow 10000s of Syrians so terrorists can sneak in under the program.

 

I believe that he will due better for the economy, and I also believe he will fight terrorism in and outside the country..

 

He is by far the best candidate that is presented before me.

 

I think thats more than enough to vote for him.

 

The economy is fantastic and unemployment is at 5%. I don't see how someone who has gone bankrupt several times, has no political experience and actively employs thousands of illegal immigrants is going to do that much better.

 

Then again, I'm pretty sure the ruling party has minimal effect on the economy, so I'm not attributing to the excellent current conditions to Obama, just like how I won't pretend that the next 4 years, which should be pretty strong, reflect particularly well on whoever is President.

 

He does have the ability...

 

The fact that people on the Terrorist watch list cant fly, bought they can buy guns legally is criminal.

 

The fight against guns is simple..Take them out of the criminals hands...What a novel concept.

 

You do realize that it was the Republican Congress who turned this down right? And that taking away rights because someone is on a no-fly list would be extremely unconstitutional because they have not been formally accused of, tried, or convicted of any crime. Or was the United States founded on a basis that individual's rights can be taken away by the government without due process? Cause I kind of thought it was the opposite.

 

Most of the gun violence that happens in urban cities are by criminals and gangbangers.

 

This is actually an important and salient point. Terrorism represents a drop in the bucket compared to the danger Americans face from crime (including gun crime). But it is way more complicated so we don't talk about it much. Then again, having a lot less guns available would make it easier, but the Republicans have fought that at every chance, while Obama has taken the strongest stance of any recent President in trying to combat the issue.

 

This is the problem...There is a disconnect..

 

Even the hint of you saying I would support Hitler is very very upsetting and I choose not to engage ..

 

Trump announced that he would not let any Muslims into the country, that he would close all mosques and that all Muslims would have to register to a government list. I realize that isn't the same as extermination, but can you really say it is that different? And it took Hitler 6 years to get from elected to the Holocaust - Trump has gone from "Muslims are scary" to "Muslims are banned" in only 3 months...what is next?

[Dubey 1,035]

Arp, for me, the tipping point was probably the Mexico wall thing. Now it seems like everything he says publicly has either subtle or not so subtle hints of racism and xenophobia. The anti-muslim rhetoric that he has been spewing recently is just completely unforgiveable to me.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Danny, I'm aware of the gaps in every scenario. You seem to focus on the gaps in the alternate explanations though. It makes it appear you believe the official explanations. Perhaps you do.

 

Your comment about it being unconstitutional to ignore the due process of the law is amusing. I guess that doesn't apply to killing Americans with drones.

 

 

[serge 904]

Arp, for me, the tipping point was probably the Mexico wall thing. Now it seems like everything he says publicly has either subtle or not so subtle hints of racism and xenophobia. The anti-muslim rhetoric that he has been spewing recently is just completely unforgiveable to me.

 

Is it ok to allow Mexicans to come into the country illegally?

 

To work without legal status and take away jobs and benefits from hard working legal tax paying Americans?

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Your comment about it being unconstitutional to ignore the due process of the law is amusing. I guess that doesn't apply to killing Americans with drones.

 

Dale, how crazy am I that I think the government should have the ability to kill without due process?