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My Thoughts On Howard Lederer Playing Poker Again


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Lederer clearly isn't playing to win money - he's lonely and wants to feel included in the poker world - so even if you take his money you are giving him what he wants - if you want to make a moral st

Only before he turned 18.

Daniel, I think you should play.   If you find yourself in a game with him, I'd be really appreciative if you could bring this up with Howard. There was a guy named Paresh Jain who played online pok

Lederer clearly isn't playing to win money - he's lonely and wants to feel included in the poker world - so even if you take his money you are giving him what he wants - if you want to make a moral stand about not playing poker with evil dudes then you have to put pressure on his so called buddies

 

My guess is that Doyle Slim etc would have played with Adolf Hitler back in the day if they had a significant edge

 

So do you believe that poker is a social activity in which money changes hands due to both luck and skill or do you believe that it is an out and out war to make money with no social significance

 

Howard Lederer isn't the one to be mad at - he's an evil dude who wants companionship everyone knows that - it's the same thing as Americans not wanting to do business with South Africa until Apartheid ended

 

Tell Doyle etc that they have enough money and that even if they are just plying a sucker - they are tainting the industry and embarrassing their fans and the people who bought their books and read their blogs

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I love your passion for the game.

 

There would be other pros out there who still get along with Howard but someone needs to take a stance on shit like this to protect the integrity of the game.

 

You have values/morals and are forever trying to make the game a better spectacle, I respect that. Whilst there are other bunnies out there like Hellmuth who care little for the growth of the game & are more interested in how many bracelets they can fit on 1 arm.

 

Having said all that, I'm not too sure what confronting Howard on a table is going to achieve.

There is only so much you can say and do to him without crossing the line.

And once you've worked yourself up into a ball of anger, it's much easier to cross that line. Even if this ass clown deserves to be put down on his ass.

 

My only advice to you is to stay within the limit of what you can do and be the better man.

 

 

What are the legal proceedings surrounding this case?

Would have thought the casino are the ones who protect the intergrity of the game.

Ban him whilst court proceedings are pending for a starters...

 

Feel sorry for the peeps who watch him on the sidelines waiting for their money to be paid to them... then they see the guy take $10,000 out of his wallet to buy in for a tourament.

 

It's f&*king wrong!

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Daniel, I think you should play.

 

If you find yourself in a game with him, I'd be really appreciative if you could bring this up with Howard. There was a guy named Paresh Jain who played online poker for a living. Despite playing hundreds and maybe thousands of tournaments with him, I never met him but my freshman year roommate in college was one of his best friends growing up. Pareshjain killed himself not long after black friday and most people suspect it was partly if not mostly because the majority of his bank/life roll was locked up on FTP. Im sure there are other reasons, just as Im sure there are countless other stories like this one. Maybe just ask your online friends for stories like this one and tell one to Howard every time you play with him. Make him understand just how many lives he negatively impacted because of his gross negligence and greed

 

edit: Here's the link on 2p2 to the thread about him. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61/mtt-community/rip-paresh-jain-dana-gordon-1100256/

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anyway my $0.02

 

I think it's pretty clear cut, play if you want to play in the game. I don't think you'd be seen as a hypocrite if you play with him, it's not like you're laughing and joking and going back on everything you said. In a perfect world, no body would play with Lederer, all scumbags would be removed from poker etc. etc. blah blah blah

that's never going to happen. As they say, if casinos banned everyone who ever did something wrong/illegal/unethical, the casino would have no customers. Howard is going to be able to play games, it's not right for any casinos or tournaments to ban him, there's nothing any one man can do about that no matter how influential that one man is.

 

So you have to look at it from what's the best choice for you. If you want to play poker, and that's the only game in town, it looks like you should play. Unless it was a case of you feeling 'I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I sat and played with that scumbag'. If you feel thaaaaat strongly, then for your own well being, maybe you shouldn't play. But as far as your reputation and 'obligation' to the public, there's no legitimate reasons why you playing with Howard Lederer should make people think any less of you.

 

On what you should say to him, I doubt this would happen anyway, but the only thing that would grind my gears is if people started acting like nothing happened with Howard and laughing and joking around with him. I don't think you HAVE to verbally abusehim/give him a piece of your mind, but I think that's a much better solution than pretending nothing happened and acting all smiley around him. (tbh, I doubt you of all people would act like this, so maybe this is aimed at the 'keyboard warrior' types. I'm sure there's plenty of pros (former FTP pros possibly) who would post on a forum or tweet that what Lederer did is wrong, he's a scumbag etc. but when it came to actually playing with him, they'd ignore the issue and just act like it's all good in the hood).

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Your obsession on other people and how much you don't like them is borderline strange. Did Howard do something wrong? Hell yea he did and he will pay the price for it when the time comes but get over it. Same thing with his sister..we all realize you don't like her..get over it. The poker world is full of scum bags, cheaters, thief's and downright losers. Your buddy Edog is one of the biggest degenerate scammers out there but I'm sure you would sit down with him because he's your boy yo. A thief is a thief anyway you slice it. He's pretty ballsy I will admit but you like the majority of the tough guy poker community won't do a god damn thing once you are in his presence . Daniel..GET OVER IT.. you were much more interesting when you tweeted about golf and actual poker playing..now you are just an over obsessive fake tough guy pokerstars walking propaganda billboard.

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I'd say don't play with him since it might make other players who consider themselves friends to both of you uncomfortable.

 

If you do decide to play though, bring a baseball bat and quietly set it on the floor. That should be enough to keep him from trying to bluff you.

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Your obsession on other people and how much you don't like them is borderline strange. Did Howard do something wrong? Hell yea he did and he will pay the price for it when the time comes but get over it. Same thing with his sister..we all realize you don't like her..get over it. The poker world is full of scum bags, cheaters, thief's and downright losers. Your buddy Edog is one of the biggest degenerate scammers out there but I'm sure you would sit down with him because he's your boy yo. A thief is a thief anyway you slice it. He's pretty ballsy I will admit but you like the majority of the tough guy poker community won't do a god damn thing once you are in his presence . Daniel..GET OVER IT.. you were much more interesting when you tweeted about golf and actual poker playing..now you are just an over obsessive fake tough guy pokerstars walking propaganda billboard.

 

puckbag out of the gate with the high stinky cheese.

 

54zhb1.gif

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puckbag out of the gate with the high stinky cheese.

 

54zhb1.gif

 

You've posted 3 times in this thread for a total of about 50 words, stop spending so much time on 2+2. Guy asked for opinions and opinions is what he will get whether him or yourself like them or not.

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okay my .02$

 

play him, take his money, but don't say a thing. He already knows he is a scum bag and doesn't care so why make it uncomfortable for the fellow players at that table. In time he will get what is coming to him. Show him you are a better man. You can degrade him here or on twitter but making a scene at the table may only backfire my poker son. I commend you for sticking up for those that lost funds but sometimes not saying anything makes a bigger statement.

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You've posted 3 times in this thread for a total of about 50 words, stop spending so much time on 2+2. Guy asked for opinions and opinions is what he will get whether him or yourself like them or not.

 

i have no bleeping idea what you're even trying to say.

 

but i do know that you will not come into my house and run your mouth. if this kind of thing were to continue i reckon i might have to stomp a mudhole in your bleep and walk it dry.

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Ya'll people are delusional if you think Daniel could ever sit at a table with Howard and not say anything. After everything Daniel has said on the internet is it the best move to just give Howard the silent treatment once they finally play in person? Definitely not to me. To me Daniel isn't even a table grinder anymore. He is a tournament personality and that's it. If the game is like a once in a lifetime game then sure go for it. Just don't scare away the fish. If it's not even that good of a game (and if it's the only game in town I imagine it's full of veterans) than why even bother? Just because you have the poker bug? Ridiculous!! Howard should be banned from any and all poker games until Americans are made whole. I don't care if his friends want to play with him because he's a mark. That's a weak excuse and it makes them look like idiots. If they want to play with him that bad why don't they play at his house where they don't even need to pay a rake.

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okay my .02$

 

play him, take his money, but don't say a thing. He already knows he is a scum bag and doesn't care so why make it uncomfortable for the fellow players at that table. In time he will get what is coming to him. Show him you are a better man. You can degrade him here or on twitter but making a scene at the table may only backfire my poker son. I commend you for sticking up for those that lost funds but sometimes not saying anything makes a bigger statement.

 

What if Howard takes his money?

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I've played at a table where 8 of the 10 people sitting there talked about their time in prison or jail -- the point being that the poker world is not necessarily a world of clean cut characters and pristine people. It is perfectly ordinary to sit with unsavory characters, regardless of whether or not we know the details of their unsavoriness, or we're personally impacted. I've sat at tables where there are people I don't like at all. Sometimes I keep my mouth shut and sometimes I give them the needle, and once or twice over many years, I've told them how I feel. But I've never gone to a table with a plan of how I'm going to treat someone, and I don't think you should either. If you feel the time and situation are right, you can probably say, "Everyone here probably knows how I feel, but I just need to say it ... " and go on from there. He'll probably not react because he's got so many legal concerns that he can't say anything at all, so that may take some of the joy of talking to him out of the process. If the time and situation don't arise, then I think your blog and posts are communicating to a lot of people and that's OK. Whatever happens, keep your mouth and body on the legal side of things and let the chips fall where they may. And good luck in the game. We all know you'll play :)

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