dead money 1 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I would really appreciate the help of all the various sng regulars. I recently had to take all my money off both Pstars and Tilt to pay some unforseen bills. I ran a stake for a guy and know have about $160 to work with. I played the $3 KOs on tilt and absolutely hate them. I also see no future in moving up in those as they fill too slow. I can 25 table on stars and 16 table on tilt easily. Ive played all the kinds of sngs and find that I am most profitable in the 9 mans and the 180 mans. I would prefer to grind out the 9 mans as I have kids and finding time to play limits me to about 2 hours a night and maybe 4 hours on the weekends without neglecting my wife too much. I want to make a decent amount of money to supplement my income to pay for vacations, birthdays, christmas, day trips, etc. Basically Im asking your thoughts on what games would be best to play and have the best chance to move up. Im asking for your experience on the game play at levels and if its feasable to move up in a decent time frame. I used to grind the $6.50s and the $16s a lot and made decent money. I used to kill the $2.20 180 mans, but I dont have a decent sample at any of the higher limits to know how good I would be. Also, what kind of attainable ROI drop can you expect at each level. I dont want exact answers obviously, I just want to see if its even worth my time to try. And if anybody else has any ideas on other games that I should try please let me know.I appreciate you reading and responding. I hope my thoughts arent too jumbled. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 $2 180 mans turbos on stars fill up very fast, and the $4 180's are better, they are slooowww levels, which i love. that or do the 27 mans for $2. Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 $2 180 mans turbos on stars fill up very fast, and the $4 180's are better, they are slooowww levels, which i love. that or do the 27 mans for $2.I would love to do the $4s but they take way too long to play. The $3 KOs took too long for me at about 2.5 hours. Im really on a strict 2 hour time limit unless I want to be dead tired for work and fall asleep behind the wheel and kill all oncoming traffic. Thats why I figure the 9 man turbos would be better. I like em but I heard that they have become very shark heavy lately and arent worth it. So it would be a waste to work my way up to the $55s or higher and struggle to keep a 3% ROI. That doesnt sound like fun. But if you guys think different please let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 variance is super wicked in the STT from what i understand. i mean i guess if you are kinda looking for bang for your buck hour wise i would so this or grind 5nl rush 6 max and 9 max, they limit you to 4 entries into the same rush game but you can play full ring too to get more tables.8 tabling rush mean in 2 hours you can probably get in something like 4K of hands in a session. thats pretty nice. i wouldnt play rush longer then 2 hours, thats just a lot.the more i think about this, 4k hands a night, lets say 1BB pre 100 hands average profit ( which is extremely small and way on the low side of how you can probably beat these things), $40 profit on the low side a night will rebuild a BR nicely. do that for a few weeks you will have a roll to do whatever you want Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 variance is super wicked in the STT from what i understand. i mean i guess if you are kinda looking for bang for your buck hour wise i would so this or grind 5nl rush 6 max and 9 max, they limit you to 4 entries into the same rush game but you can play full ring too to get more tables.8 tabling rush mean in 2 hours you can probably get in something like 4K of hands in a session. thats pretty nice. i wouldnt play rush longer then 2 hours, thats just a lot.the more i think about this, 4k hands a night, lets say 1BB pre 100 hands average profit ( which is extremely small and way on the low side of how you can probably beat these things), $40 profit on the low side a night will rebuild a BR nicely. do that for a few weeks you will have a roll to do whatever you wantHmmm. I do like rush but I dont know if I can 8 table it. I was having troule 4 tabling when I tried it. But that is a possibility. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Hmmm. I do like rush but I dont know if I can 8 table it. I was having troule 4 tabling when I tried it. But that is a possibility. Thanks.build up to then. i mean bang for the buck time wish it is great. i used to 4 table 10plo rush 6max whenever i only had like 30 minutes. super soft game if you like plo. got a crap ton of hands in, and people go broke easier in rush plo then regular imo. Link to post Share on other sites
CorvairShaggy 5 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 What about the DONs??? I am still a learning player, but I have posted a decent profit in the past on these, and just switched from cash games back to tourneys again. I can 3-4 table $10 ones and this week I am getting about 80% win ratio this week. Maybe I am on the good side of variance?? I tried a $20 one tonight and it was a little less forgiving on mistakes, but I still survived it. I am like you and can only get a few hours in per night, and if I am lucky can get a solid 4 hour session in on Sunday nights. Maybe someone that plays these regularly can comment on the variance of these, but just a thought?? Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I think a very very very good $2 180 player could get an ROI of up to like 50% while the very best at the $12 level are probably no more than 40% long term Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 If it's just about money, pick a format that's profitable for you and stick to it. Play 9-man sngs, play rush poker, play MTTs, but avoid switching between formats, unless you really need a break from the grind.I've spend some time working on my cash game this year. I'm much improved, but I'm still a more profitable sng player. Stick with what you're most profitable playing. You don't have a lot of time, so don't waste it. Don't move up just because you have the bankroll to do so. Move up because you're confident you can continue to crush the game at that level.Track your results and be honest with yourself.Set realistic goals. You have a job and a family. You can be a winning poker player, but you may never have the time to commit to becoming a top notch player.$160 is not a large bankroll. Unless you don't mind redepositing, you're going to have to start playing at the microstakes. I'm a bankroll nit, so if I was you, I would grind $2.25 9 man sngs. Not much variance, and little chance of going broke. The variance in sngs comes from playing against other decent sng players, especially in bubble situations. For me this usually happens around the $22 level.$2.25 - $160$3.40 - $221$5.50 - $357.50$11 - $715$16 - $1040$22 - $1430If you stick with those bankroll guidelines above, you will almost never go broke, but it will be a grind.Regarding DoN - I can't think of a more boring way to grind out a profit, but, if they are your most profitable game, I would stick with them. Up to $10, an ROI of 15-20 should be achievable. But perhaps the game has gotten tougher. I'll have a better idea once I get my full bankroll back online. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 $5.20 DONs till you hit $400, then $10.40s. Especially if you can mass table them optimally.130 DONs per day @ a decent win rate + FPP bonuses = 35k+ a year.Never try becoming a $20.80 reg. I tried for a while and had games where it was literally the same 10 regs across 12 tables. Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 Thanks for the thoughts guys. Im not a very good cash player. My preflop play is much better than my flop play. I can beat the 1/2 nl games in AC but that is like saying Im the tallest midget at the fair. I have trouble winning at online any higher than the 50nl tables. I loathe the DONs. They are boring as all hell. I know I wouldnt be able to handle it. I think Im just gonna try and grind out the sngs and hope for the best. I may give the rush cash games a go and see what my results are after 10k hands or so. If it looks promising, I might do that. As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks.i would save your money and just read strat posts on 2+2, here, pokerroad, deucescracked, cardrunners, bluefirepoker, ect forums. and sign up for a coaching site membership. HOH is pretty simple. you will get better info from these places imo. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Thanks for the thoughts guys. Im not a very good cash player. My preflop play is much better than my flop play. I can beat the 1/2 nl games in AC but that is like saying Im the tallest midget at the fair. I have trouble winning at online any higher than the 50nl tables. I loathe the DONs. They are boring as all hell. I know I wouldnt be able to handle it. I think Im just gonna try and grind out the sngs and hope for the best. I may give the rush cash games a go and see what my results are after 10k hands or so. If it looks promising, I might do that. As an aside, does anybody know any good cash game strategy books out there? I know that Harrington's books are highly praised. I was just seeing if there was anything else that is good for postflop play. Thanks.Grind the $5.20s for a while and get the BR stable, honestly.Anyway, best book on poker I've found is Mathematics of Poker (Bill Chen) Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 15, 2010 Author Share Posted August 15, 2010 Grind the $5.20s for a while and get the BR stable, honestly.Anyway, best book on poker I've found is Mathematics of Poker (Bill Chen)What kind of bankroll would you recommend when moving up in these? Can you get away with 20 buyins or should it be closer to the same as regular 9 mans? Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 9 man turbos are very shark infested, just play the non turbos continuously for 2 hours. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 What kind of bankroll would you recommend when moving up in these? Can you get away with 20 buyins or should it be closer to the same as regular 9 mans?prob do 30 to be safe, drop back down @ 15 Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 16, 2010 Author Share Posted August 16, 2010 I really appreciate the replies guys. Thanks. How far up the ladder do you have to go where the 9 man turbos get too sharky for a decent player? Im pretty sure I have narrowed it down to the 9 mans, the rush cash or the DONs. Would it be a bad idea to mix it up and play all of them? Play each of them 1 week at a time and mix it up so I dont get super bored. Im not sure its a good idea, but it might help me cope with the monotony. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I really appreciate the replies guys. Thanks. How far up the ladder do you have to go where the 9 man turbos get too sharky for a decent player? Im pretty sure I have narrowed it down to the 9 mans, the rush cash or the DONs. Would it be a bad idea to mix it up and play all of them? Play each of them 1 week at a time and mix it up so I dont get super bored. Im not sure its a good idea, but it might help me cope with the monotony.6.50 on PSdunno FTP.blame battle of the planets a lot of regs will bump down to put up a high orbit block score and get the BOP bonus Link to post Share on other sites
TheTiburon 0 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Dead,I was in the exact same situation back in 2007 when I went through a divorce and needed ALL of my money. When I finally came back I went from having a bankroll to being an over qualified player in low stakes. Here are my observations when I came back:1. DON's are very easy to cruise into the money, but require next to no skill, but a ton of patience. I would multi table these if you are looking for profit and not an advance in your poker career.2. I found the $10 SNG's to be easier to beat than the $5 and under due to more predictable TAG play, but these don't fall in your bankroll parameters. Aspire to work up to this level and CRUSH IT!3. I highly recommend the $4 KO 9 Man SNG's (on Stars) because it significantly decreases your variance by accumulating bounties even in games you don't cash in while still playing like a $3 SNG. There is HELLA dead money in the form of 2-3 fishes just waiting to give your their stack within the first 10 minutes of the game. Once you have 1 double up it's very easy to cash in these. Hope this helps! Hit me up if you want more help working through this. I am currently doing something similar, again after using my entire bankroll to start 2 businesses. Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 Thanks guys. You have all been real helpful. Im still not sure what I want to do but I have a lot more info about than I did a week ago. I think the DONs are my best bet if I can put up with them. I dont even know about the 9 man KOs lol. I havent been on stars in awhile. Those sound intriguing. Also, Tiburon. I found the same thing to be true about the sngs. Go above the 10s and the players become more predictable. The players are def. better but I know exactly how they play and dont have to worry about a guy calling my all ins when he has no buisness to do so ruining both our chances at cashing. Its maddening sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Thanks guys. You have all been real helpful. Im still not sure what I want to do but I have a lot more info about than I did a week ago. I think the DONs are my best bet if I can put up with them. I dont even know about the 9 man KOs lol. I havent been on stars in awhile. Those sound intriguing. Also, Tiburon. I found the same thing to be true about the sngs. Go above the 10s and the players become more predictable. The players are def. better but I know exactly how they play and dont have to worry about a guy calling my all ins when he has no buisness to do so ruining both our chances at cashing. Its maddening sometimes.While the DoN's are easy, starting at $5 it's become crazy-tight. There's a ton of grinders and nits and you're usually at 100/200 while 8-handed. I think your best bet is to either play MTT SnG's or regular 9 and 10-mans. Link to post Share on other sites
Eba12 0 Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I started playing a bit of the $1.40KO 9s and they seem to be pretty alright. I never tried the double or nothings. Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 While the DoN's are easy, starting at $5 it's become crazy-tight. There's a ton of grinders and nits and you're usually at 100/200 while 8-handed. I think your best bet is to either play MTT SnG's or regular 9 and 10-mans.no. $20s yes. $10s and $5s no. Link to post Share on other sites
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