The Pope Has Problems

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Why would arresting the Pope end Christianity?

[JubilantLankyLad 1,957]

Why would arresting the Pope end Christianity?

Papal Infallibilityedit: just read about this, apparently it doesn't count for pedophilia. convenient.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

So, is anyone going to defend the pope? Anyone? No one has a problem if we shackle him and send him off to prison?SB- I was so glad you did a quick search and came up with the BG quotes so I didn't have to. I am interested to see if he'll answer or avoid this because you bring very good points. The only thing is most Christians be it, Protestant, Catholic, Babtist or whatever doesn't really have a clue as to what or where the history of their religon is, let alone what the actual beliefs are.I mean we know arresting the pope isn't going to happen and the throngs of idiots will go on believing in the voodoo but let's pretend it did and people left the church in droves and ending Christianity as we know it. Is that a good thing for society. Is it worth keeping around for the uneducated and morally bankrupt that need a fantasy to give their life meaning and guidance?

I wouldn't have any problem at all with the pope being arrested. Conspiring to evade justice by covering up child abuse and rape is a crime in any secular context. Why should he be exempt because this is a religious context? Would he be exempt if he knew priests were dealing coke and covered that up? Or counterfeiting money in the church basement? By what logic should such widely corroborated sex crimes against children be treated as less important?[Edit: or breaking into the Watergate to steal campaign plans?]The thing is I don't think such a thing would really end Christianity. If this pope fell, the Vatican would find another, hopefully cleaner pope and maybe undertake some serious reform. Then it would blow over eventually. If they stonewall enough, they may lose Italy itself, Ireland, Spain, and France, making all Europe secular. But in places like South America, I think locals will be loyal to their local priest and their local cathedral as long as those priests remain clean. Even if they had to give up faith in the Vatican and the pope, the local rhythms of life -- weddings, funerals, christenings -- would keep them tied to "a" church (rather than "the" church).What I meant by "ending Christianity" would entail a crisis that engulfed the entire Catholic church around the world. This sexual abuse crisis has engulfed America and Europe, but so far South America and Africa seem untouched for the time being.

[CaneBrain 95]

I don't think the Pope belongs in jail but I do think he should resign.

[JubilantLankyLad 1,957]

zero chance this ends the catholic church. you cannot end a billion people's association with their Church (or church) through despair, it's just not possible. it has to be done with inspiration.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Papal Infallibilityedit: just read about this, apparently it doesn't count for pedophilia. convenient.

I googled Papal Infallibility when this thread started.Advantage: me.

[speedz99 145]

zero chance this ends the catholic church. you cannot end a billion people's association with their Church (or church) through despair, it's just not possible. it has to be done with inspiration.

Huh. That was surprisingly deep.

[JubilantLankyLad 1,957]

Huh. That was surprisingly deep.

I'm more than just jokes. Barely.

[vbnautilus 48]

Protestants try very hard to ignore the fact that by a factor of more than 3:1 the dominant doctrine of Christianity worldwide is that of Catholicism.

Where you getting these numbers? I tried to verify this but came up with very different figures. Looks to me like it is maybe just more than half of christians who are catholic.In the U.S. of course its like only 17% who are Catholic, which explains why they don't care too much about it here.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Where you getting these numbers? I tried to verify this but came up with very different figures. Looks to me like it is maybe just more than half of christians who are catholic.In the U.S. of course its like only 17% who are Catholic, which explains why they don't care too much about it here.

I got them from a few different sites -- adherents.com being the only one I remember by name. Pew research is usually also good for such things, but I don't remember if it popped up in my search. What I found was 1.9 billion Christians of all sorts, and somewhat less than 400 million Protestants. [indigenous/animist faiths came in around the mid-300s, I think.]Probably needless to say, all the sites differed from each other, seeing as there's no truly thorough way of measuring.

[vbnautilus 48]

I got them from a few different sites -- adherents.com being the only one I remember by name. Pew research is usually also good for such things, but I don't remember if it popped up in my search. What I found was 1.9 billion Christians of all sorts, and somewhat less than 400 million Protestants.

OK, then I think I see the discrepancy. You're assuming that all the non-protestants are catholic, but they aren't. Only about 1 billion are Catholic, while the rest are various other forms of christians, e.g. anglican, eastern orthodox, protestant, etc, etc. So Catholics are just about over half.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

OK, then I think I see the discrepancy. You're assuming that all the non-protestants are catholic, but they aren't. Only about 1 billion are Catholic, while the rest are various other forms of christians, e.g. anglican, eastern orthodox protestant, etc, etc. So Catholics are just about over half.

COPTIC!! Don't forget about Coptic. you sons of bitches are always forgetting about the copts.

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't think the Pope belongs in jail but I do think he should resign.

I would like to see every leader of every large organization resign over stories written about them in the Onion...

[Balloon guy 158]

Grumpy much today? If you have reading suggestions, I'd like to hear them, rather than insults and assertions. [Maybe I'm the one being too touchy today, if you're being your usual gently ironic self.]

grumpy?I'm not grumpy, just think women should know their place...

While I'm waiting on them, I'll agree that the Greek texts are likely to be better and that translating to Latin likely introduced errors. You admire those who translated the bible into vernacular languages like English and German, although that act introduced errors as well. All translations do, even if they used only the Greek texts (and they didn't).

This doesn't make any sense, if ALLLLLL translations have errors, you must be able to see the errors, which means you can fix it.

But even if you feel (as you seem to) that the eastern orthodox church is the truest church in terms of fidelity to the old texts, that church is hardly Protestant in any fashion at all. It's rather closer to Catholicism in its organization, hierarchy, rituals, and doctrines.

Never said for a second that the eastern orthodox was truer...I was only pointing out that the Catholic church was not alone for the last 2,000 years. You made the false assumption, and I pointed it out, now you are trying to make another one...I guess this is a pattern...

And, accurate or not, it's located itself in a historical cul-de-sac. The Roman Catholic church in the west is the one that influenced world history more, and it remains the church from which Protestantism was born. And since the Greek Orthodox are not huge on proselytizing and missionary work, a crisis that destroys Catholicism will still essentially destroy the majority of the world's Christianity. I don't find it plausible that lapsed, embittered Catholics will become Eastern Orthodox. I find it even less plausible that they'll become Baptists by the billion.

I never doubt the ability of Catholics to maintain their faith in the Catholic church.Ask a Catholic what their pentance is for doing some sin and they will tell you they have to say x amounts of the Lord's Prayer...The very prayer that Christ said this about: 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us today our daily bread. 12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

[Roll the Bones 74]

zero chance this ends the catholic church. you cannot end a billion people's association with their Church (or church) through despair, it's just not possible. it has to be done with inspiration.

oh I agree which is why I said, what if? As in something strange happened. Someone within the church brings out evidence of a systematic collusion into pedophelia and evidence that the church knew Jesus wasn't a son of God. Perhaps something like letters from Jesus or the Gospel of Jesus that shows he was just a normal preacher of the day and then like a house of cards things start to slowly fall apart over the course of the next few decades.Christianity isn't much if Jesus wasn't really who they say, fair enough?So, how would that effect the country. Good or bad?

[Roll the Bones 74]

blah blah blah

So did the protestant church branch off from the catholics or not? Are you saying the protestants came first and the catholics bastardized it? Are you calling the Catholics sinners, (along with every other group your religon teaches you to hate?) Is the texts so confusing that so many people had it wrong for all these centuries and only your particular branch got it right? How does anyone know if it's an error in translation if it is all just opinion anyway?When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realized that God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked Him to forgive me.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

your religon teaches you to hate

[Roll the Bones 74]

heh, well, he doesn't like Catholics or any other religous sects, athiests, etc. Who's left? He's the one saying we're going to burn in hellfire for not believing his version.

[Roll the Bones 74]

[Balloon guy 158]

heh, well, he doesn't like Catholics or any other religous sects, athiests, etc. Who's left? He's the one saying we're going to burn in hellfire for not believing his version.

Are you sure it's me who is saying that?

[Roll the Bones 74]

Are you sure it's me who is saying that?

yesNow care to answer my questions? And was is your opinion, should the pope be arrested and prosecuted?

[timwakefield 68]

There have been some bad popes.10 most wicked popes

[GWCGWC 83]

I think we all know the answer here. Religon is simply a money making organization and they were worried about the bottom line profit.

Anyone been to the Vatican City? It's pretty impressive in it's oppression. Hello women with sleeveless top and shorts, I'm dressed in a uniform designed by Michelmutha****inangelo and I'm a badass for god. I know it's 110 degrees but you need to cover your shoulders and bare legs if you want to enter this basilica. This is a place that houses the largest and richest collection of art in the world and a place where you get a speech before entering the Sistine Chapel. NO PICTURES, NO TALKING, YOU HAVE 10 MINUTES OF VIEWING, GO.Don't forget to visit the gift shop where tiny old Vietnamese nuns will sell you anything you.........wait, is that a plastic glow in the dark Jesus on a wooden cross? I must own this. Somehow it seemed appropriate at the time. If you see a wooden box, you're welcome to make a donation. Upon hearing this, one can play a game of I Spy the collection box. If you find yourself in an open space where you can't see an actual box, you must put some Lira in the next box. It's surprisingly hard to donate when playing this game.It's a trip and definitely worth a visit.

Christianity isn't much if Jesus wasn't really who they say, fair enough?

nah, it's 'faith' based religion.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

There have been some bad popes.10 most wicked popes

So two of them confused people, one refused to pay taxes, and one ordered the painting of the Sistine Chapel?

[Roll the Bones 74]

So two of them confused people, one refused to pay taxes, and one ordered the painting of the Sistine Chapel?

Well nuts, I apparently could make that list then.