chasing

[miner_man 0]

Okay, hypothetical situation here...Lets say, you are in a single table tournament with 5 players remaining. You're in third place with 2,000 chips. The blinds are 100/200. You are dealt As 4s. You and another player call to see a flop. The flop is 5s 9s Qh. Your opponent immediately goes all in. Lets say that you know nothing about your opponent. Considering that you have 2,000 in chips and your opponent has gone all in with X amount of chips. Depending on one variable, the X amount of chips that your opponent pushes in, when do you call? When do you fold?For me, in this position I tend to call if my opponent has less than 1,000 in chips, and I fold if he has more. Is this a smart play? What would you do?

[NickTheKid 0]

Not getting the odds, run.

[swtballa 0]

call even if it is all your chips. You have the opportunity to take a player out. Who knows you might even have him beat, he coule be on a spade draw also. Your ace high could be good in this situation and even if he has top pair you have like 11 outs, your ace or a spade.

[TheIceman05 0]

If there are 600 chips in the pot (which I believe there are), and I'm heads up with 12 likely outs (3 Aces, 9 spades), I probably won't call much. It's hard to CALL with a draw, even with 12 outs. We could probably get away with calling a bet a little under the size of the pot, and be ahead in the long run. Calling a 1000 chip bet is a serious mistake.Ice

[NickTheKid 0]

Disagree, put your money in somewhere better, you are on a draw... it's a bad idea. If you had 2 over's and the draw it would be a little different, that 4 doesn't look too hot from over here.

[TheIceman05 0]

call even if it is all your chips. You have the opportunity to take a player out. Who knows you might even have him beat, he coule be on a spade draw also. Your ace high could be good in this situation and even if he has top pair you have like 11 outs, your ace or a spade.

That's just terrible advice. If you fold, you've still got 10 big blinds left. You're a short-ish stack, you're likely not ahead here. Calling off a bet 3 times the size of the pot is just ludicrous. Ice

[buzzkill81 0]

For me, in this position I tend to call if my opponent has less than 1,000 in chips, and I fold if he has more. Is this a smart play? What would you do?

If the guy went all in for more then 215-300 chips your making a bad call. 9 outs / Bet: $900 / Pot: $40035% chance to turn or river an outTo justify betting $900: the pot must be $1,673For a pot of $400: the max you can call is $215even if your Ace is live and would give you the best hand your still not getting proper pot odds.12 outs / Bet: $900 / Pot: $40045% chance to turn or river an outTo justify betting $900: the pot must be $1,101For a pot of $400: the max you can call is $327

[TjSlifka 0]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

[miner_man 0]

Yes, I am thinking my ace is good in this position. So my logic behind my decision is... It's tournament play and the object is to knock out other players. If you're only risking half of your stack or less, its worth taking the 45% chance of knocking a player out. I think its a whole different story in a cash game. However, you still have the odds against you somewhat. This is why I would not call off more than half of my stack, cause I also think it is a bad idea to call off all of your chips with a draw hand. Bad logic?

[CieloAzor 0]

I was assuming a pot of 700...two callers, small blind folds, big blind checks, then checks the flop. It honestly wasn't explained very well, so if the big blind is the only player you're up against, the pot's 500.Regardless, I'd say you can call a pot sized bet, maybe a little more. A pot sized bet gives you 2-1 odds and your chance of making the flush is slightly better than that. Then you've got to factor in that your ace could be live, or you could even be up against a smaller flush draw. On the other side of the coin, he could have a set or two pair, where even if you make your flush, you may lose to a full house. Then there's metagame considerations, reads, etc, etc.All in all, I'd probably call at least a bet of 800 with the pot at 700. I certainly wouldn't call all-in.

[MilesZS 0]

Yes, I am thinking my ace is good in this position. So my logic behind my decision is... It's tournament play and the object is to knock out other players. If you're only risking half of your stack or less, its worth taking the 45% chance of knocking a player out. I think its a whole different story in a cash game. However, you still have the odds against you somewhat. This is why I would not call off more than half of my stack, cause I also think it is a bad idea to call off all of your chips with a draw hand. Bad logic?

The ultimate goal is not necessarily to knock players out, period. You have to think about yourself. You have to be selfish. In a tournament you need to be exploiting your huge advantages, and taking as little coin flips as possible (unless you're the chip leader by a damn fair amount).With that stack, calling an all-in of more than the pot with a draw that is worse than a coin flip (barely, I know) would be a marginal play at best. I would say that is probably negative tournament EV if you will.

[Scott31 0]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

Oh lord. The money you lose in this situation alone means you're a losing player. The OP should ignore this and everyone else should for that matter.

[allinbluff35 0]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

Oh lord. The money you lose in this situation alone means you're a losing player. The OP should ignore this and everyone else should for that matter.

bless his little heart though

[Scott31 0]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

Oh lord. The money you lose in this situation alone means you're a losing player. The OP should ignore this and everyone else should for that matter.

bless his little heart though

Yes, it was a cute little post.....unbelievably wrong, but a good effort at rattling the brain and hoping something wise comes out. I'd shake it a few more times. :-)

[Guest]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

This is now the funniest thing I have read all day.That is so cute! "Flushes always come". He must have one hell of a pattern mapper. Live though? Psychic intuition? I mean really. If they go all in before I can act I obviously call....... :roll: Fuck. Even JFarrell nor toogood are that retarded

[renaedawn 1]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

Where do you get a deck like that?Damn all this pot odds crap. Why didn't someone tell me that flushes always come?? :roll:

[mrdannyg 274]

if he had less than 1200 or so i would call, but that is because i have little or no confidence in myself as a NL tourney player. a good player should ONLY call if the math favours him significantly. i believe that means the other player has to go all-in for less than 600 or so, but i'm sure someone can easily give that figure. yes, knocking a player out is an added benefit, but you should have enough confidence in your play to not need to take an even money shot for a significant amount of chips.unless there is something weird about the payout structure, like this player is on the bubble and even if you lose, you will not be in danger of being taken out next, you should not make this call unless you have a significant odds advantage, or if you do not have confidence in your ability to play better than your opponents.cheers,daniel

[Sushiman 0]

I just have to say the 4 to a flush comment is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. My first couple of months of playing I lost the majority of my money betting flush draws, and have learned my lesson well. Although it sounds like the guy who beat DN at the Mirage also subscribes to this guy's philosophy.

[nealdo17 0]

call even if it is all your chips. You have the opportunity to take a player out. Who knows you might even have him beat, he coule be on a spade draw also. Your ace high could be good in this situation and even if he has top pair you have like 11 outs, your ace or a spade.

What sites do you play on and what is your handle?

[Scanner313 0]

Deleted a dup.

[Scanner313 0]

Okay, hypothetical situation here...Lets say, you are in a single table tournament with 5 players remaining.  You're in third place with 2,000 chips.  The blinds are 100/200.  You are dealt As 4s.  You and another player call to see a flop.  The flop is 5s 9s Qh.  Your opponent immediately goes all in.  Lets say that you know nothing about your opponent.  Considering that you have 2,000 in chips and your opponent has gone all in with X amount of chips.  Depending on one variable, the X amount of chips that your opponent pushes in, when do you call?  When do you fold?For me, in this position I tend to call if my opponent has less than 1,000 in chips, and I fold if he has more.  Is this a smart play?  What would you do?

If I'm thinking of this correctly, you're not going to get anything better than 2:1 on your money, so...You'd have to assume that either your opponent has 2 spades as well (one being a Q at worst) and he's chasing, or he's got a set. I woulnd't put him on 2 pair on the flop if he went all-in, but that's another debate.So you've got 2 cards to come with 9 spades to make the nut flush. Toss in the remaining 3 aces and you've got 12 outs to beat his trip Q's. So you're about 38% to make your flush and you have a very slim chance at trip A's (about 12% on the turn and then about 4% to catch the 3rd A on the river). If this is wrong, someone please correct me.Believe me, it's hard to fold 4 to the nut flush with 2 cards to come, but the odds are against you and you have to assume he's got a hand already, and a decent hand at that. If he's got you covered then you really have no choice but to fold (and then leave the table until the cards are swept so you don't see the spade that fell on the river). Of course, if he's the shortstack (at max 2/3 your chip count) you call without question (or at least I would).Anyway, that's my observation.

[dms26 3]

Whenever I get 4 to a flush I always re raise all in.. and If they go all in before I can act I obviously call no matter if I have 1 chip or 2k chips.. Flushes always come.. you have to call in that situation.

Thanks for the advice, and the laugh. If by always you mean 35% of the time you're absolutely right. Way to ignore pot odds and all that other unimportant stuff too.

[CieloAzor 0]

If I'm thinking of this correctly, you're not going to get anything better than 2:1 on your money, so...You'd have to assume that either your opponent has 2 spades as well (one being a Q at worst) and he's chasing, or he's got a set.  I woulnd't put him on 2 pair on the flop if he went all-in, but that's another debate.So you've got 2 cards to come with 9 spades to make the nut flush.  Toss in the remaining 3 aces and you've got 12 outs to beat his trip Q's.  So you're about 38% to make your flush and you have a very slim chance at trip A's (about 12% on the turn and then about 4% to catch the 3rd A on the river).  If this is wrong, someone please correct me.

Most of it is wrong. Most importantly, running aces would not defeat a set of queens. Why are you counting 3 aces as 3 outs against a set? Why can't the guy have 2 pair? Why can't you get better than 2:1? Please rethink all of this.

[Scanner313 0]

Most of it is wrong. Most importantly, running aces would not defeat a set of queens. Why are you counting 3 aces as 3 outs against a set? Why can't the guy have 2 pair? Why can't you get better than 2:1? Please rethink all of this.

Sorry, you're right about the running A's. They give him a boat. Forget about that one, I wasn't thinking heavy on that as it's a long shot to begin with.As for 2 pair, obviously the guy COULD have 2 pair (he could have 2-7off), but it's a pretty bold move going all-in on 2 pair to a pre-flop raise, even on a mixed flop. I would expect with a lot riding that the guy might have something better (i.e. a set) to make a move like that. Then again, it could be an all-out bluff.As for the pot odds, it was just the 2 of them. If the pre-flop was light and this guy goes all-in for a significant amount more, then all the OP can win is how much he calls, plus the change. So assuming that the all-in bet WAS significantly higher than the pre-flp exchange then the pot odds wouldn't be much better than 2:1.

[Talent03 0]

Its really quite simple. You are about 3 to 1 to make your hand (considering 12 outs). If the pot is laying you 3 to 1 odds then you call. If it is not, then you fold.