shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Villain has me covered. I have about 1400, with 800 in. Originally bought in for 300, then re-bought for 500, and built it to 1300 pretty quickly, when i actually got nut flush over small flush...anyways, this hand comes up. I'm on the SB.UTG +2 raises to $20UTG +3 calls $20SB calls $20 - 7 8 - is this a leak? should i be folding? UTG + 2 is aggressive, and has a semi-wide range...BB calls $20Flop ($80)K J 3 SB checksBB checks UTG + 2 bets $40UTG + 3 foldsSB raises to $200BB foldsUTG + 2 calls $200Turn ($480)5 SB (hero) ?The pot is now so big, and if villian doesnt have me beat already with a cooler of a higher flush, then it's a nut flush draw with pair, or a set hoping to pair the board...this is what I put him on...thoughts on how to play from the turn, and prevoius streets? thanks in advance.. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Yeah calling suited connectors OOP is a pretty small leak... but a leak none the less... if you're going to play it I go ahead and repop preflop. You've got a decent shot at a squeeze and it's definitely is worth picking up the money on c-bets as well..Furthermore it keeps you from getting lost in spots like these... I mean you're OOP with a small flush that you're not getting away from, and you're stuck on what to do.Anyhow... this is an easy bet... I'd size it around 300 to set up a nice and clean river shove. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Bet. $350-$450Ez river shove Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Also... it'd be nice to know if this is FR or a shorthanded game. Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Yeah calling suited connectors OOP is a pretty small leak... but a leak none the less... if you're going to play it I go ahead and repop preflop. You've got a decent shot at a squeeze and it's definitely is worth picking up the money on c-bets as well..Furthermore it keeps you from getting lost in spots like these... I mean you're OOP with a small flush that you're not getting away from, and you're stuck on what to do.Anyhow... this is an easy bet... I'd size it around 300 to set up a nice and clean river shove.I really should have done this....lol Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 I really should have done this....lolfull ring... Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 so is a shove on turn completely nuts? cause that's what i did...i made up my mind that i was not going to let him draw to the flush/full house...i should have just be the pot... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Shoving makes the hand easy to play, but it doesn't maximize our evLike we want him to draw to the flush/full-house. We just want to charge him with incorrect odds.Betting pot or a little less would be sufficient, as a shove rarely gets a worse hand to call and we aren't folding out better... Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 so is a shove on turn completely nuts? cause that's what i did...i made up my mind that i was not going to let him draw to the flush/full house...i should have just be the pot...Not even the pot honestly... I think around 300 works great because it will leave you with a pot over 1000 and your stack will be under 900... that way you don't have to bet the pot on either street which makes it easier for your opponent to call with worse hands.A shove isn't the worst play ever, but it's definitely getting him to fold hands you want to come along.I've never played this high but I can imagine the fear of getting sucked out on for so much money played a role in your decision. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I'd def bet more than $300 tho.If he only has the Ah, he isn't going to put in more money on the river if he bricks. Also if he has the Ah, the more we bet on the turn, we lessen his direct and implied odds as he has to call more now and will win less... does that make sense?By betting $400 the pot will be $1280 and we'll have only $780 to shove on the river and we give sets/two-pair better odds to call our river shove with worse Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Shoving makes the hand easy to play, but it doesn't maximize our evLike we want him to draw to the flush/full-house. We just want to charge him with incorrect odds.Betting pot or a little less would be sufficient, as a shove rarely gets a worse hand to call and we aren't folding out better...i completely understand all this..and really, it usually easy to put into practice...but when you are stuck for 300, and actually got it all back and then some...and a chance to build on it more, you really dont want to lose it on a @#$ river card.. ...so yeah, i f@# up on this one....he took about 3 min to fold...he had AK, with A hearts...it would have been so sick to see him insta call with AQ of hearts or something like that... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Meh... I know you like the 2/5 & 5/5 games better than the 1/2 or whatev, but you gotta let go over the $$ and being stuck and stuff and just make the best decision Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 i should note that villian and i have the biggest stacks..everyone else is hovering at the 200-600 level... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 i completely understand all this..and really, it usually easy to put into practice...but when you are stuck for 300, and actually got it all back and then some...and a chance to build on it more, you really dont want to lose it on a @#$ river card.. ...so yeah, i f@# up on this one....he took about 3 min to fold...he had AK, with A hearts...it would have been so sick to see him insta call with AQ of hearts or something like that... Yes, but when he insta-calls it's only going to be AhXh or similar which has you beat. Like as sick as it would be, would you fold KK in his spot after getting c/r on the flop and shoved on the turn for 2x pot?I recently heard somewhere that you shouldn't be playing deep (more than 200bb) if you can't fold sets... might have been improva on the DC podcast Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Meh... I know you like the 2/5 & 5/5 games better than the 1/2 or whatev, but you gotta let go over the $$ and being stuck and stuff and just make the best decisionyeah, true dat...i really need to stop thinking about it in terms of actual monetary value...that's my biggest fault...i just started playing regularily again at the start of the year, after 7 years of just occasoinally playing - so i'm still adjusting to that whole "holy shit, that's like a week's paycheque" etc....i probably played about 50 hours in the past 7 years, and i've already passed that in 2010... Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Yes, but when he insta-calls it's only going to be AhXh or similar which has you beat. Like as sick as it would be, would you fold KK in his spot after getting c/r on the flop and shoved on the turn for 2x pot?I recently heard somewhere that you shouldn't be playing deep (more than 200bb) if you can't fold sets... might have been improva on the DC podcasti would def fold KK.... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Cool, well def just work on forgetting about the $ amount and focusing on pot size, stack size and the action/ranges etc.Also, this is live poker. For the most part people are going to give you their $, you just need to make hands and value bet them. Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Cool, well def just work on forgetting about the $ amount and focusing on pot size, stack size and the action/ranges etc.Also, this is live poker. For the most part people are going to give you their $, you just need to make hands and value bet them.tell me this...what if i did bet 400, and he goes all in...?? do you call? fold? i really wanted to avoid this as well, because i felt he could pull this off. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 snap call Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 tell me this...what if i did bet 400, and he goes all in...?? do you call? fold? i really wanted to avoid this as well, because i felt he could pull this off.if you're going to shove it in yourself why are you going to have a hard time calling a shove? Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Yeah calling suited connectors OOP is a pretty small leak... but a leak none the less... if you're going to play it I go ahead and repop preflop. You've got a decent shot at a squeeze and it's definitely is worth picking up the money on c-bets as well..Furthermore it keeps you from getting lost in spots like these... I mean you're OOP with a small flush that you're not getting away from, and you're stuck on what to do.Anyhow... this is an easy bet... I'd size it around 300 to set up a nice and clean river shove.I can't describe to you how much I disagree with the bolded section. Suited connectors are hands you want in multi-way pots... why lose our ability to flop something big against many opponents by reraising preflop? Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I can't describe to you how much I disagree with the bolded section. Suited connectors are hands you want in multi-way pots... why lose our ability to flop something big against many opponents by reraising preflop?*LOW* suited connectors you do not want to play more than 3 handed and certainly do not want to play passively OOP.And, repoping pre does not change what cards will come out on the flop.And, well, if you ever play anthing besides ABC TAG poker... you will understand that I'm dead on. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 squeezing live full-ring w/that hand OOP is suicidal imo Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I personally like the line hero took. Calling with 7 8 suited with a raiser and 1 caller, isn't too terrible even OOP. (if this plays like a typical 2/5 game)Like KJ, said, you're not going anywhere after the flop, so just bet big on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 squeezing live full-ring w/that hand OOP is suicidal imoCaveat: in 1/2 .... NO. If you squeeze big enough. In 5-5 ... mayyyyybe. Link to post Share on other sites
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