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lol spotFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($13.26)Button ($14.84)SB ($14.39)Hero (BB) ($27.04)UTG ($2.60)UTG+1 ($6.49)MP1 ($5.77)MP2 ($12.18)MP3 ($25.87)Preflop: Hero is BB with A :5c, K :ts4 folds, MP3 bets $0.35, CO calls $0.35, Button calls $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.80, MP3 calls $1.45, 2 foldsFlop: ($4.35) Q :3h, 3 :4h, K :club:(2 players)Hero bets $3, MP3 raises to $6

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Since I started playing cash again, like 2 days ago, I've notice that the min reraise at these stakes is usually bad news when you've showed this much interest in playing a big pot. I think you're beat here a lot of the time. Fold and save some money, unless you have a read to think this guy is crazy enough to run a bluff here.

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100 BB's deep this is a snap shove. 260 BB's deep effective I fold.
Wat? In what world can we ship 100 BBs with TPTK in a 3bet pot on KQ3r after getting minraised? You think the guy has freaking AQ or JJ?Arrrrgh, potatoman, its a min RAISE, not a reraise.
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Wat? In what world can we ship 100 BBs with TPTK in a 3bet pot on KQ3r after getting minraised? You think the guy has freaking AQ or JJ?Arrrrgh, potatoman, its a min RAISE, not a reraise.
yea I folded but felt dirty. I'm wondering if flop's best to c/c or if that's being results-oriented
These are the spots i love when i'm on the other end with AA and my villains cant fold AK. Thats what you have to start thinking, does you villain have AA - would he repop pre with AA? also, can he throw away AA? I mean, there is only 1 combo of KK.There is also a good chance he shows up with AK. would explain his hesitancy preflop, but thats where knowing your villain and the table dynamics come in. Has there been lots of 3 betting and even 4 betting? Does 4 betting mean Aces? etc etc..I think i give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he wont throw away aces. so we're hoping to push him off AK - which basically means we're investing a lot to win a little.so i like a foldFurther on to what Trys said. If played differently, I probably check this.he isnt calling with 99-JJ here, not even AQ half the time. so we're better off checking and letting him cbet
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I actually think this is a very good hand to analyze.There is basically nothing from villain's 3bet calling range that we can get value from on the flop, unless we know they are mega-ultra-stations and will call down AQ here.But if we c/c flop, what's our plan for the turn? It seems like c/c three streets here would be very awful, and villain will be firing a 2nd barrel a ton.

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I actually think this is a very good hand to analyze.There is basically nothing from villain's 3bet calling range that we can get value from on the flop, unless we know they are mega-ultra-stations and will call down AQ here.But if we c/c flop, what's our plan for the turn? It seems like c/c three streets here would be very awful, and villain will be firing a 2nd barrel a ton.
I think if we check/call the flop. depending on the turn card, villain might slow down with 1 pair. something we could toy with is, We can put in a check/raise fold to 3bet on the turn - this folds out all lower pairs, and maybe even AK. and could fold out AA.however, if i'm in this hand playing, I'm probably check/calling flop and check/calling turn. firing the river if he checks behind on the turn.
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lol spot
It would be an awful way for villain to play AA or KK. Just truly awful. I'm thinking we might be chopping a lot here. I seem to chop and get in these spots with AK vs AK ENDLESSLY. It's very weird. I don't know how he shows up with KQ here.Maybe it's horrible this deep, but I call and see if he slows down on the turn. If he gets very fruity on the turn, I'm thinking set and can fold.He could have something as stupid as TJ here too. Villain is unknown?QQ seems to be the most logical way we're beaten.
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this has no merit. none what so ever. Infact, i will often flat with AA in this spot. just like villain did.
You're often flatting a 3bet with 2 people behind you left to act? Honestly, unless you're playing HU or you think that you have a complete stone read, you shouldn't really EVER be flatting AA preflop, especially at 10nl where people are willing to call so light. And this would be an especially horrible time to do it with people left behind you.He's right, it is terrible to play AA like this if that is in fact what he has. IMO, it's something like 75%+ that villain has AK here also. Otherwise, you're totally destroyed, so you're playing to chop. Easy fold imo.
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You're often flatting a 3bet with 2 people behind you left to act? Honestly, unless you're playing HU or you think that you have a complete stone read, you shouldn't really EVER be flatting AA preflop, especially at 10nl where people are willing to call so light. And this would be an especially horrible time to do it with people left behind you.He's right, it is terrible to play AA like this if that is in fact what he has. IMO, it's something like 75%+ that villain has AK here also. Otherwise, you're totally destroyed, so you're playing to chop. Easy fold imo.
the re-raise is huge.of course i'm flatting ,and expecting at least one player to fold, but more likely it will be both folding.P.S. i'll play aces 3 way all day. also, I'm loving the fact that I appear weaker and give more reason for My villain (our hero) to lead a big cbet on the flop.1 more thing.. did you even look at the stacks before commenting? our next raise goes to 3.60 lets say. Now our villains (hero's) range is going to tighten up and he's going to tread cautiously since we're so deep.let him think he has control of the hand.
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This deep I fold AK to a 4bet oop too. That would seem to show that RT's play of flatting AA/KK in Villain's position would be perfectly fine.
exactly.seriously, the re-raise preflop of 1.45 is big. I'll wager rolls that 1 player always folds out, if not both.
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Royal does know his poker, but there's merit to the fact that a generic 10nl is not folding AK to a 4-betI think the flop's butchered. The std line is to bet, and although we take the pot down very often, we don't get any value from villain's range. I like a c/c and re-eval on later streets. I don't think villain's ever going to run some suicidal bluff here, and I doubt he'll turn his worse pairs into bluffs either

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the re-raise is huge.of course i'm flatting ,and expecting at least one player to fold, but more likely it will be both folding.P.S. i'll play aces 3 way all day. also, I'm loving the fact that I appear weaker and give more reason for My villain (our hero) to lead a big cbet on the flop.1 more thing.. did you even look at the stacks before commenting? our next raise goes to 3.60 lets say. Now our villains (hero's) range is going to tighten up and he's going to tread cautiously since we're so deep.let him think he has control of the hand.
Yup, I looked at the stacks.The problem with this and the general question you posed to the group is that 92.15% of 10nl players are not forum posters. 99.9099998% aren't competent forum posters. Also, I'm fairly sure that a higher percentage are not Trystero. They aren't thinking, "Omg I have AK and I got 4bet. He might have aces!"They're thinking, "OMG I HAZ AK AND I GOT 4 BET. I WINZZ."IMO, it's especially silly to want to give the flop to someone when you're 2-3 bi deep when they can have a lot of hands that are going to flop something where you're going to get board trapped because you've underrepped, whereas if you 4 bet, even when deep, most 10nl'ers are going to at least CALL nearly 100% of their 3bet range. Plus flatting give AK a 2/3 chance to miss and check/fold. 4betting, even smallish, gets a ton of players to at least call AK trying to flop a pair.
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Agree that that 3bet size is way too large. $1.5 is fine. Whether we cbet or not is dependant on villains stats. Check if he's a meh reg, bet if he's a fish with the intention of getting it in. If we have no reads, check for pot control.

Wat? In what world can we ship 100 BBs with TPTK in a 3bet pot on KQ3r after getting minraised? You think the guy has freaking AQ or JJ?Arrrrgh, potatoman, its a min RAISE, not a reraise.
If we're 100 BB's deep and readless, in a 3bet pot I'm never ever ever folding TPTK when only 3 hands beat me (KK should never show up here) after committing half my stack.
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I understand your point, stupidhead, but I ask again - in a 3bet calling range, which is probably something like {99+, AJ+, KQ} for a station and more like {TT+, AQ+} for a better player, what part of that range is MINraising on a KQ3r flop? And what part of that range are we beating holding AK? Nothing. It would literally have to be air that he's raising, and if we are 100 BB deep, then at that point the pot is $13.35 and we have $5.20 behind. So we'd have to commit $5.20 more for a chance to win $23.75, if my math is right. Therefore we'd need ~22% equity to be breakeven. I just don't see how we have that if we get it in here, when villain's range is going to be 5% "air" of 99-JJ (which is probably a generous amount to give that part of his range), and the rest is QQ/KK/AA/AK, with a small chance of KQ or lol 33.

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this has no merit. none what so ever. Infact, i will often flat with AA in this spot. just like villain did.
Well, maybe you flat w AA KK there with 2 behind, but we can be reasonably certain most garden variety villains won't. I'm just saying call and re evaluate.
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You're often flatting a 3bet with 2 people behind you left to act? Honestly, unless you're playing HU or you think that you have a complete stone read, you shouldn't really EVER be flatting AA preflop, especially at 10nl where people are willing to call so light. And this would be an especially horrible time to do it with people left behind you.He's right, it is terrible to play AA like this if that is in fact what he has. IMO, it's something like 75%+ that villain has AK here also. Otherwise, you're totally destroyed, so you're playing to chop. Easy fold imo.
Yup, I looked at the stacks.The problem with this and the general question you posed to the group is that 92.15% of 10nl players are not forum posters. 99.9099998% aren't competent forum posters. Also, I'm fairly sure that a higher percentage are not Trystero. They aren't thinking, "Omg I have AK and I got 4bet. He might have aces!"They're thinking, "OMG I HAZ AK AND I GOT 4 BET. I WINZZ."IMO, it's especially silly to want to give the flop to someone when you're 2-3 bi deep when they can have a lot of hands that are going to flop something where you're going to get board trapped because you've underrepped, whereas if you 4 bet, even when deep, most 10nl'ers are going to at least CALL nearly 100% of their 3bet range. Plus flatting give AK a 2/3 chance to miss and check/fold. 4betting, even smallish, gets a ton of players to at least call AK trying to flop a pair.
Ok. so wait? I'm a little confused on what you're trying to say.You are saying that, if you're villain, with AA, you should be re-raising because anyone with AK will still ship even after being 4bet?But, now i'm confused, because you said. you're like 75% sure that the villain in this hand has a combo of AK, but if AK is so great to wanna get it all in, why didnt he re-pop preflop?Basically, You're now implying that this villain should have a weaker holding than AK? Maybe you dont realize it, but you contradicted yourself. the only hand that makes sense now is KQ. I'll agree with that, that KQ plays this way, but thats a very narrow range.
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I understand your point, stupidhead, but I ask again - in a 3bet calling range, which is probably something like {99+, AJ+, KQ} for a station and more like {TT+, AQ+} for a better player, what part of that range is MINraising on a KQ3r flop? And what part of that range are we beating holding AK? Nothing. It would literally have to be air that he's raising, and if we are 100 BB deep, then at that point the pot is $13.35 and we have $5.20 behind. So we'd have to commit $5.20 more for a chance to win $23.75, if my math is right. Therefore we'd need ~22% equity to be breakeven. I just don't see how we have that if we get it in here, when villain's range is going to be 5% "air" of 99-JJ (which is probably a generous amount to give that part of his range), and the rest is QQ/KK/AA/AK, with a small chance of KQ or lol 33.
This is almost never AA/KK. Royal tour may flat AA in this situation but 99% of 10NL players won't. KQ is much more likely than KK/AA imo. QQ I expect to get in pre most of the time but I'd say that it's a likely candidate too. Personally I would have never gotten myself in this situation in the first place. I would have 3bet smaller, and if I thought villain had a 3bet calling range that you're describing, I'm checking the flop. If I'm betting the flop it's with the intention to get it in against a tard.
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This is almost never AA/KK. Royal tour may flat AA in this situation but 99% of 10NL players won't. KQ is much more likely than KK/AA imo. QQ I expect to get in pre most of the time but I'd say that it's a likely candidate too. Personally I would have never gotten myself in this situation in the first place. I would have 3bet smaller, and if I thought villain had a 3bet calling range that you're describing, I'm checking the flop. If I'm betting the flop it's with the intention to get it in against a tard.
Just to be clear, I said I could (sometimes will) flat in that spot with AA.which is why i posed the question, does he think his villain might ever flat a big BB in that spot.after some more talks throughout this hand, i feel its more likely he has KQ.I'll have to take your word for it that 99% of 10nl players wont flat a big PP there.
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