ben4808 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (UTG+1) (t1560)MP1 (t1470)MP2 (t900)MP3 (t1440)CO (t1520)Button (t1530)SB (t2160)BB (t1480)UTG (t1440)Hero's M: 52.00Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, A1 fold, Hero bets t80, MP1 calls t80, 4 folds, SB calls t70, BB calls t60Flop: (t320) 5, K, 7(4 players)SB checks, BB bets t100, Hero raises to t300, 2 folds, BB calls t200Turn: (t920) J(2 players)BB bets t100, Hero raises to t1180 (All-In), BB calls t1000 (All-In)River: (t3120) 9(2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: t3120Results in white below: BB had K, 7 (two pair, Kings and sevens).Hero had K, A (one pair, Kings).Outcome: BB won t3120The more I go over this, the more I think I would play it the same way again. Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I raise more on the flop, maybe to around 400..make him pay more if he has flush or straight draw. I hate that tiny turn donk bet I have trouble with those too..here I think its a clear raise tho. I don't think you ever really don't just get it in in this spot in a sng. Bad luck he outflopped you defending his blind with that trash but thats poker, move on to the next sng. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Why are we raising the turn? He just led out again after calling a flop raise - if he wants to bluff, let him by calling. But I don't see the value in raising that turn donk - no new draws materialized on the turn that would call the flop raise, so I don't think he's throwing a blocker. Don't post results next time, as it's hard to not be results oriented, but in a vacuum I think his turn donk means that he has one pair beat, he's putting you on exactly the kind of hand you have (AK/AA) and he wants you to spaz out. Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Yep, raisng the turn sucks.....im willing to bet that fade is all for the spew shove Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Why are we raising the turn? He just led out again after calling a flop raise - if he wants to bluff, let him by calling. But I don't see the value in raising that turn donk - no new draws materialized on the turn that would call the flop raise, so I don't think he's throwing a blocker. Don't post results next time, as it's hard to not be results oriented, but in a vacuum I think his turn donk means that he has one pair beat, he's putting you on exactly the kind of hand you have (AK/AA) and he wants you to spaz out.Idk I might flat the turn but his donk bets don't convince me that he's not on a draw. The more I thought about it the more I agree that I would probably just flat it, but thats why I hate those donks he could be making them with a worse king that we're still ahead of too. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 you had the ability to small ball probe turn but yah this happens with bad players, sometimes you hit a great pair and go broke to a weird 2 pair. KJ should have been more likely and on turn there is so many draws, and you are early in the tourny that if you get called or a repop comes you should start to feel horrible. The end probably means that straights hit but its unlikely for a Q10 to show up here. In the end you probably still go broke and yah it sucks but really he was a donk to flat a preflop bet with k7 but it happens. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here. Alright, villain has a shitty 2 pair, it sucks. But getting it in now is a great time Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here. Alright, villain has a shitty 2 pair, it sucks. But getting it in now is a great timeWhy not jsut flat the turn? The way that hand developed shoving is a total spew cause the other person is gonna fold most hands we beat and call with hands that beat ours.....flat the turn and see what he does on river......if he moves in fold and call if its a reasonable bet even if u lose u still have enough chips to play with cause the blinds are low. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Why not jsut flat the turn? The way that hand developed shoving is a total spew cause the other person is gonna fold most hands we beat and call with hands that beat ours.....flat the turn and see what he does on river......if he moves in fold and call if its a reasonable bet even if u lose u still have enough chips to play with cause the blinds are low.There is over 900 in the pot on the turn when it begins (which is about our entire stack), with this donkbet on the turn (especially in these micro limit sngs) we are getting called by worse many times (KQ,KT,K9, etc). We will also fold out FD's here a percentage of the time, and even get called by them at the same time and get us more equity. If we flat this turn. We are still looking to get it on on a nonheart river and such. Now, if villain has a FD, he is going to shut the hand down, and we lose equity, where we could get called by a FD on the turn.You guys give wayyyyy too much credit to a guy playing a 3.40 sng Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 There is over 900 in the pot on the turn when it begins (which is about our entire stack), with this donkbet on the turn (especially in these micro limit sngs) we are getting called by worse many times (KQ,KT,K9, etc). We will also fold out FD's here a percentage of the time, and even get called by them at the same time and get us more equity. If we flat this turn. We are still looking to get it on on a nonheart river and such. Now, if villain has a FD, he is going to shut the hand down, and we lose equity, where we could get called by a FD on the turn.You guys give wayyyyy too much credit to a guy playing a 3.40 sngflat the turn.....still have around 1000 left.....see the river.....why do so many people always want to shove all the time.....blinds are 10/20 its insanity.....maybe some of us do give a guy playing a 3.40 sng to much credit but some of people dont give them enough credit Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Why not jsut flat the turn? The way that hand developed shoving is a total spew cause the other person is gonna fold most hands we beat and call with hands that beat ours.....flat the turn and see what he does on river......if he moves in fold and call if its a reasonable bet even if u lose u still have enough chips to play with cause the blinds are low.+1. +2 if you include the post right before this one. No reason to put our tourney on the line in the first level with one pair. Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here. Alright, villain has a shitty 2 pair, it sucks. But getting it in now is a great timeno. i'm calling and letting him bet river again. Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 flat the turn.....still have around 1000 left.....see the river.....why do so many people always want to shove all the time.....I'm not one who likes to shove all the time but given the pot size already and the action and remaining stacks I'm for it...again, because I think most of the time your up against a flush draw or worse K. TrueAce said "We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here" and I agree 150%. Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'm not one who likes to shove all the time but given the pot size already and the action and remaining stacks I'm for it...again, because I think most of the time your up against a flush draw or worse K. TrueAce said "We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here" and I agree 150%.i dont think u can be so sure.......he was the BB....3 palyers were in a head of him.....its early he could be coming along with anything.... its way to early for this TPTK spew shove..... Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'm not one who likes to shove all the time but given the pot size already and the action and remaining stacks I'm for it...again, because I think most of the time your up against a flush draw or worse K. TrueAce said "We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here" and I agree 150%.And I disagree 150%. Actually I would say 6 out of 10 times or so that a villain has taken this line on me he has KJ, 1 out of 10 he has a set, and the other times he has air or a weaker made hand that can't stand a raise. So I ask again: why on earth are we raising the turn? Let him bluff or valuetown himself on the river, and we obv bet if checked to. Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 And I disagree 150%. Actually I would say 6 out of 10 times or so that a villain has taken this line on me he has KJ, 1 out of 10 he has a set, and the other times he has air or a weaker made hand that can't stand a raise. So I ask again: why on earth are we raising the turn? Let him bluff or valuetown himself on the river, and we obv bet if checked to.I agree 100% here. Let villain hang himself on river. If he outdraws you, or already has you beat, then gg. Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Also, when I first looked over the HH it looked like KJ for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 And I disagree 150%. Actually I would say 6 out of 10 times or so that a villain has taken this line on me he has KJ, 1 out of 10 he has a set, and the other times he has air or a weaker made hand that can't stand a raise. So I ask again: why on earth are we raising the turn? Let him bluff or valuetown himself on the river, and we obv bet if checked to. He has bet into us on two streets. Do we fold if he c/r us on river? because blinds are still so low? or are we calling the rest of our chips off then? Link to post Share on other sites
Dhall901 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I like a bigger raise pre-flop. AK oop isn't an ideal situation. You nailed the flop pretty decent, but BB could have any trash two pair because he was priced in on the call. On the un-coordinated board the call on the flop is worrisome. It was nice that you ended up with position in the hand, but use it more wisely. The baby lead on the turn asks for a raise, I don't see any reason to push here. I think you have to call the turn, but then he pushes on the river... Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 There is over 900 in the pot on the turn when it begins (which is about our entire stack), with this donkbet on the turn (especially in these micro limit sngs) we are getting called by worse many times (KQ,KT,K9, etc). We will also fold out FD's here a percentage of the time, and even get called by them at the same time and get us more equity. If we flat this turn. We are still looking to get it on on a nonheart river and such. Now, if villain has a FD, he is going to shut the hand down, and we lose equity, where we could get called by a FD on the turn.You guys give wayyyyy too much credit to a guy playing a 3.40 sng I'm not one who likes to shove all the time but given the pot size already and the action and remaining stacks I'm for it...again, because I think most of the time your up against a flush draw or worse K. TrueAce said "We get it in on the turn b/c we almost always have the best hand here" and I agree 150%.+1This is pretty standard, why is everyone so scared to go broke? Take the buy-in into account, more often than not we have the best hand here just based on random donks going nuts with K2, 64 or A7. Plus, it's not more likely he shows up with a hand that beats you with the line he took, it's def more likely he has a draw. wp'ed OP. I'm not sure why these threads get a ton of replies nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites
wildspoke 2 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I like get the shove on the turn. The big blind has shown strength in different spots along the way. I don’t think we are giving the big blind way too much credit for a hand. He bet out on the flop and turn. And called min-raises as well. (weak)But shouldn’t that be telling us something?What range were you putting him on?If he has KQ KJ, we can string him along to the river and get value on every street.If he has a flush or straight draw don’t we want to get him on the river? You have position so if a scare card falls you can just check/call. Why go broke so early with one pair? Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I like a bigger raise pre-flop. AK oop isn't an ideal situation. You nailed the flop pretty decent, but BB could have any trash two pair because he was priced in on the call. On the un-coordinated board the call on the flop is worrisome. It was nice that you ended up with position in the hand, but use it more wisely. The baby lead on the turn asks for a raise, I don't see any reason to push here. I think you have to call the turn, but then he pushes on the river...why would raise larger pre-flop? 80 is fine. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 +1This is pretty standard, why is everyone so scared to go broke? Take the buy-in into account, more often than not we have the best hand here just based on random donks going nuts with K2, 64 or A7. Plus, it's not more likely he shows up with a hand that beats you with the line he took, it's def more likely he has a draw. wp'ed OP. I'm not sure why these threads get a ton of replies nowadays.Because the value in the shove is wayyy to thin, we only have one pair, and it's the first level of the tournament. Risk/reward just isn't worth it here. In a cash game, it's a closer decision. Link to post Share on other sites
redonkulous 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 +1This is pretty standard, why is everyone so scared to go broke? Take the buy-in into account, more often than not we have the best hand here just based on random donks going nuts with K2, 64 or A7. Plus, it's not more likely he shows up with a hand that beats you with the line he took, it's def more likely he has a draw. wp'ed OP. I'm not sure why these threads get a ton of replies nowadays.standard spew...... as SwolyswoND said the risk /reward isnt worth it ...way to early....its OK to use the brakes once in a while Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 as long as you manage bankroll well don't be scared to fight with a very good hand Link to post Share on other sites
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