pokerkid 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Utg limps. Villain raises to 1.10. I raise to $4 with AA. Everyone folds to Villain who calls.Pot = 8.60Flop comes J 5 7 rainbowVillain leads $2.15. I call.Pot = $12.90Turn 8.Villian leads $6.35. I call.River 3.Villain pushes for $18.56 Link to post Share on other sites
tbrick412 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 raise flop shove turn Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You have no idea where you stand because you didn't raise the flop. If you raise the flop and he reraises, then you can make your decision at that point based on your read and your table image. If you raise and he folds, you win. If you raise, he calls and then leads the turn, then you raise again and see what he does. Or if he calls your flop raise and checks the turn, then you take it down. If he check-raises then it's decision time. Point is, you put yourself in a position to make an earlier decision with more information by continuing your aggression and raising the flop. By playing it passively and calling down you're now in no-man's land having invested $12 and facing an $18 bet on the end. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 yeah raise the flop so you can jam the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I call a shove after I raise the flop to 8? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 YOU KEEP LETTING PEOPLE BLOCKER BET YOU! Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You have no idea where you stand because you didn't raise the flop. If you raise the flop and he reraises, then you can make your decision at that point based on your read and your table image. If you raise and he folds, you win. If you raise, he calls and then leads the turn, then you raise again and see what he does. Or if he calls your flop raise and checks the turn, then you take it down. If he check-raises then it's decision time. Point is, you put yourself in a position to make an earlier decision with more information by continuing your aggression and raising the flop. By playing it passively and calling down you're now in no-man's land having invested $12 and facing an $18 bet on the end.Not knowing what the stack sizes are makes talking about the action here difficult. We don't have suits either. I guess I'm willing to call off 100BBs with my AA here if villain 3bet shoves on the flop. Depends on what I've seen him do before now. With one-pair hands, I like to get as much $ in the pot as possible early in the hand, because that's ordinarily when your hand has its highest value. When we get to the river, a lot of draws mature and villains find two pair, etc. Make them pay up when they're behind instead of being the one who does the paying when the draw matures. So, anyway, at the flop, we have a $4 pot and you CALLED a $2.15 bet. Many times villains will put out blocker bets in order to establish their own price for a draw -- one low enough so that it's profitable for them. The magic of having position (betting after the villain acts) is that now you get to reset the price to one that's not profitable for him: you should raise here at least to $6. But like I said, without knowing suits and stacks, (apart from the ****ing A in the title), it's hard to really peel this hand apart and know what the best play would be. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 It was a rainbow flop. If I raise the flop, do i call a shove? It's a pretty dry board. Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 What jmbreslin said.Stop being so passive. Yeah, sometime, villain shows up with JJ and you lose a bunch. That's poker. Concentrate on making your opponents' decisions more difficult, more expensive and maximizing the value of your aces, which don't come along often enough.I think what you did in this hand post flop was minimize your value, allow your opponent to draw as cheaply as possible and allow him to force you to make the tough decisions.Sorry if that comes across as extremely critical. Sometimes I play WAY too passively too. I'm still learning. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You have no idea where you stand because you didn't raise the flop. If you raise the flop and he reraises, then you can make your decision at that point based on your read and your table image. If you raise and he folds, you win. If you raise, he calls and then leads the turn, then you raise again and see what he does. Or if he calls your flop raise and checks the turn, then you take it down. If he check-raises then it's decision time. Point is, you put yourself in a position to make an earlier decision with more information by continuing your aggression and raising the flop. By playing it passively and calling down you're now in no-man's land having invested $12 and facing an $18 bet on the end.This is good Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 So basically here was my reasoning for playing it the way I did. His range on the flop is something like: KK, QQ, JJ, 10-10, 99, 88, 77, AK, AQ, AJ,If he has AK AQ, AJ, 88, 99, 10-10, QQ, KK, he could fold to our raise on the flop.If he has JJ or 77, I'm probably going to get it in anyways, and as another poster said, that's poker.I didn't want him to be able to fold 99, 10-10, QQ, KK, AJ or complete air. I thought if I just called, he'll continue to stack off.If I raise, he definitely folds his bluffs and could fold something like QQ or AJ. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I kinda like the way you played it fine. That is if you snap called river.Edit: actually his donk being so small is kinda LOL, I'd raise there, but call, call, calling is fine if normal bets and bigger stacks Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Not knowing what the stack sizes are makes talking about the action here difficult. We don't have suits either. I guess I'm willing to call off 100BBs with my AA here if villain 3bet shoves on the flop. Depends on what I've seen him do before now. With one-pair hands, I like to get as much $ in the pot as possible early in the hand, because that's ordinarily when your hand has its highest value. When we get to the river, a lot of draws mature and villains find two pair, etc. Make them pay up when they're behind instead of being the one who does the paying when the draw matures. So, anyway, at the flop, we have a $4 pot and you CALLED a $2.15 bet. Many times villains will put out blocker bets in order to establish their own price for a draw -- one low enough so that it's profitable for them. The magic of having position (betting after the villain acts) is that now you get to reset the price to one that's not profitable for him: you should raise here at least to $6. But like I said, without knowing suits and stacks, (apart from the ****ing A in the title), it's hard to really peel this hand apart and know what the best play would be.This is not a draw-heavy flop so chances are slim he's trying to give himself a good drawing price. On a dry flop a donkbet usually means one of two things: (1) villain has connected with the flop but doesn't have a huge hand, and is testing the raiser to see if he will fold his overcards - so often a raise will take it down right there; (2) he's flopped big and is trying to entice the raiser to raise the flop. If villain reraises this flop after donkbetting, I would not be comfortable putting my 100BB stack in the middle. In fact, the only way I would be willing to do so is if I had a solid read on villain and knew there was some big-time metagame stuff going on. Link to post Share on other sites
Solar 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 So basically here was my reasoning for playing it the way I did. His range on the flop is something like: KK, QQ, JJ, 10-10, 99, 88, 77, AK, AQ, AJ,something like this, could be more small pairs. I don't think AQ donks the flop, but I could be wrong.If he has AK AQ, AJ, 88, 99, 10-10, QQ, KK, he could fold to our raise on the flop.Most villains arent folding KK/QQ/AJ here. Wouldn't be the first time I saw AK stack off post flopIf he has JJ or 77, I'm probably going to get it in anyways, and as another poster said, that's poker.I didn't want him to be able to fold 99, 10-10, QQ, KK, AJ or complete air. I thought if I just called, he'll continue to stack off.If I am villain a call looks stronger to me than a raise. I mean, what is your range here based on the way you play.. JJ-AA?If I raise, he definitely folds his bluffs and could fold something like QQ or AJ.he might fold those hands occasionally, but he's going to fold them a lot more if a king hits on the turn. Get the money in now Link to post Share on other sites
skits2 0 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sorry, not sure If i'm doing to quote right.... I think I might not be.....But agreed with Solar. You Want the villian to have QQ, KK, AJ, KJ, I assume you are playing at the $25 tables, I haven't seen many people fold over pairs there. Try to get the money in on the flop, if not, shove the turn Link to post Share on other sites
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