76clubs 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I love AK, but the screen name says it all my man.EDIT: let me clarify: AK is a much better hand no doubt, but the 7 6 is my favorite hand. Very deceptive, and will win more BIG pots than AK I think anyway. But AK is definately a MUCH MUCH MUCH better hand. Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I love AK, but the screen name says it all my man.EDIT: let me clarify: AK is a much better hand no doubt, but the 7 6 is my favorite hand. Very deceptive, and will win more BIG pots than AK I think anyway. But AK is definately a MUCH MUCH MUCH better hand.I would've never guess 7 6 was your favorite hand. :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Just a few points...1. Smash is right. 2. Smash is arrogant. 3. Bradburn, don't get too excited about correcting a published author. Smash keeps his editors busy too with his dyslexia.4. The "poker is like sex" quote was spoken long before Dutch Boyd said it. Link to post Share on other sites
76clubs 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I love AK, but the screen name says it all my man.EDIT: let me clarify: AK is a much better hand no doubt, but the 7 6 is my favorite hand. Very deceptive, and will win more BIG pots than AK I think anyway. But AK is definately a MUCH MUCH MUCH better hand.I would've never guess 7 6 was your favorite hand. :wink:I know, sometimes I even surprise myself lol Link to post Share on other sites
JBradburn6 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 3. Bradburn, don't get too excited about correcting a published author. Smash keeps his editors busy too with his dyslexia.Thanks man, way to make me feel good about myself.I'm gonna go :cry: now. Link to post Share on other sites
IdleMercutio 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Wow, DrawingDead is right, there really used to be intelligent discussion in this forum. Although I think Smash totally nailed why AK dominates 45s, I'm thankful to the OP to be innovative enough to pose the question. Thinking outside the box like this and figuring out why the conventional wisdom is correct is great. It allows us to see why the accepted knowledge is right, but also provides insight in how to exploit it.45s is not a premium hand and shouldn't be mistaken for one, but unless you won't to play your cards programmatically, you need to mix up your starting hands. Suite connecters (as is already widely known) are a great way to do that.Keep intelligent discussion alive in the forum: keep asking questions and challenging how we think about poker. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I appreciate your comments smasharoo... I will be quitting poker and picking up ping pong instead.(less implied odds). thank you again. My only poker knowledge was watching Robert Varkoni's poker video. Good luck at the WSOP...It's a shame you don't know enough to debate the completely valid points I raise and instead resort to a pthetic attempt at humor. Who'd have thought that you sucked so badly at two things at once??Anyway, I think it probably is best if you stop playing poker if you're going to spend your time creating imaginary "studies" about theory that's been understood for decades.Stick to having tea parties with the stuffed animals.3 things.1. this is the most insane theory i've ever heard and i can't believe smash is actually arguing the value of ak. my head is spinning. in a couple of days this kid will sober up and realize that the theory of poker has changed little in the past 30 years and he'll never be back on the forum.with that said.2. smash youre a bully, you only pick fights that you know you can win...with retards. you're my hero.3. Yeah, i can make a theory where i can play a good hand badly and a bad hand goodly so i can lose money with aces and make more weith 72. whats the point here? (don't let this rhetorical question make you think i'll read or care about your response)ps. OP, please post where and when you are trying your theory, er, giving money away. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 While we're here, let's look at some of the many problems with 45s.1. It makes underflushes. Often.2. It makes a weak two pair. Often.3. It hits the flop with weak draws subject to many redraws. Often.4. It beats the following hands unimproved: 23, 24, 25, 34, and NOTHING ELSE. 5. It makes a virtually useless single pair that will never, ever, be top pair. 6. To have any value it requires MASSIVE implied odds making it playable only in the weakest of games.Now let's look at the plus side:1. People who play like ass postflop can get away from it more easily than AK.That's about it really.This and This: Playing 45s in a tight agressive game is good way to lose money. People raise with it in a tough game for deception, not for value.Should have been the end of any rebuttles from the Pro 4,5s groupies.I have no clue how this went to 2 pages after this reply Link to post Share on other sites
nritchi3 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 All I can say is maybe you should team up with the guy that said two pair should beat undertrips and create some new rules so you can even out the ev of 54 with AK. By the way what qualifies you to comment on advanced holdem theory i would be very interested to hear what limits you play at. Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Wow. I never thought about it like that before. I bet AA is like that too. I always seem to lose with AA. It gets cracked left and right and I (and other players) can never get away from it. I think because of the reverse implied odds, AA is an auto fold preflop. Even if you're in the blind in an unraised pot, you should probably fold so you aren't tempted to put it all in on a flop of A23 , because 45s will beat you and worse hands will fold. Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 GET THAT FRIGGIN DANCIN LOCK OUT!!This thread is turning into a flame fest and making people look like complete idiots. Lock'er Up!! Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 how did you idiots manage to go on for 2 pages about this? 45s is obviously a superior hand as it adds up to 9 and 9 is a magic number, being 1 short of 10, the tetrad. What does AK add up to? THATS RIGHT: NOTHING. its not even a hand comprised of numbers, and therefore cannot be added, thus reducing its value exponentially by a factor of 3 brazillian. I highly suggest everyone begin capping 45s on every street, particularily in partypoker 5-10 and 10-20 6max games. thats party. 10-20. 6 max.Also, smash, quit making up words like 'implied' an 'unimproved'. we all see through your silly verbal assault. you just want to keep the powers of 5 high to yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmaster05 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 this is not a discussion, it's a jopke.So what if the forum's gone stale? Everyone read a book or something, it's not the end of the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 lol. Link to post Share on other sites
grimtaash 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 My roomate likes to play 4-5. Of course, he quit playing online poker because he lost too much money. My two cents.grim Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 AK has reverse-implied odds. you wont get much action unless:1. you push it all in and have a coinflip2. if someone holds a weaker Ace on an ace high flop. AQ/AJ/maybe even AT.against QQ..you wont get much action if you flop an ace or king.it's called REVERSE IMPLIED ODDS. everyone should know about this.anyways, i would much rather have AKs than 54s. trust me, everyone will. anyone who says they would much rather have 54s is pretty much brain dead. the only time i would want 54s over AKs is when theres multiple players in the pot with no raise. if the pot is heads up, anyone who prefers 54s over AKs should just quit poker nowteneight Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 AK has reverse-implied odds. you wont get much action unless:1. you push it all in and have a coinflip2. if someone holds a weaker Ace on an ace high flop. AQ/AJ/maybe even AT.against QQ..you wont get much action if you flop an ace or king.it's called REVERSE IMPLIED ODDS. everyone should know about this.anyways, i would much rather have AKs than 54s. trust me, everyone will. anyone who says they would much rather have 54s is pretty much brain dead. the only time i would want 54s over AKs is when theres multiple players in the pot with no raise. if the pot is heads up, anyone who prefers 54s over AKs should just quit poker nowteneightHow many times to you hear somebody say "c'mon dealer gimme a 54s!" When you're short stacked what are you hoping for more...AK or 54s? Have you ever heard somebody be like "man if i can just pick up a suited connector i'll be right back in this game"? Suited connectors are great if you're in position and wanna take a cheap flop against a couple opponents and flop a big hand and get it paid off but its not a better hand. Link to post Share on other sites
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