The Official Obama Scorecard Thread

[SAM_Hard8 50]

2. You can go further- There is no such thing as an actual tax cut when running a long term deficit. Bush and Reagan didn't cut taxes- they decreased revenue and massively increased debt. The only way to actually cut taxes is to run a surplus first, and then decrease the overall size of government.

That might be the dumbest thing you have ever written, and that's a deep well to draw from.

[hblask 1]

That might be the dumbest thing you have ever written, and that's a deep well to draw from.

See, that's one thing I actually agree with him on. You can give pretend tax cuts by running a deficit, but that money is coming from somewhere else in the economy, and will have to be paid back. So it's actually sort of a double whammy. The more I study taxes and spending, the more I think deficit spending beyond a couple percent for anything other than a nation-threatening emergency is both bad economic policy and also immoral.

[brvheart 1,752]

I agree with SS and HB on the tax cut issue, however, I think we can all agree with Sam that SS's well is fairly deep.

I think there are quotes (or paraphrases) from 6 different people. Not 4. And NONE of them said that higher taxes had ANY effect on them. And since the disagreeing portion is 0, it doesn't matter how many more people, because you can multiply 0 by any number and still be 0. Therefore, higher taxes and more regulation simply do not harm businesses. Ever.

Damn you DannyG!! *fist shake* You got me again on the reading. I've now changed my position to that of your final sentence, and bow to your greatness.Just as a side note. I'm not sure we could trust a personal interview from 50 small business owners. Have you ever had to talk with some of those people about finance? Holy shit. Many many many small business owners are big idea people that know ****ing nothing about business or finance. It's really sad. It's also why so many small businesses fail. They have no ****ing idea how to manage cost of goods or sky-high labor costs. They don't realize that they could solve their problems by cutting people (especially management) and personally working more hours or simply raise their ****ing prices. They have no idea how much taxes are really affecting them. They just know that they made it through another week, so everything is wonderful. Then 10 months later they are bankrupt and blaming everyone else but themselves.

[akoff 0]

I agree with SS and HB on the tax cut issue, however, I think we can all agree with Sam that SS's well is fairly deep.Damn you DannyG!! *fist shake* You got me again on the reading. I've now changed my position to that of your final sentence, and bow to your greatness.Just as a side note. I'm not sure we could trust a personal interview from 50 small business owners. Have you ever had to talk with some of those people about finance? Holy shit. Many many many small business owners are big idea people that know ****ing nothing about business or finance. It's really sad. It's also why so many small businesses fail. They have no ****ing idea how to manage cost of goods or sky-high labor costs. They don't realize that they could solve their problems by cutting people (especially management) and personally working more hours or simply raise their ****ing prices. They have no idea how much taxes are really affecting them. They just know that they made it through another week, so everything is wonderful. Then 3 years later they are bankrupt and blaming everyone else but themselves.

Many - most - big percentage for sure. hell to a large degree i am guilty of it...running a business in year 1 is much different then in yr 10 or 20.

[mrdannyg 274]

I agree with SS and HB on the tax cut issue, however, I think we can all agree with Sam that SS's well is fairly deep.Damn you DannyG!! *fist shake* You got me again on the reading. I've now changed my position to that of your final sentence, and bow to your greatness.Just as a side note. I'm not sure we could trust a personal interview from 50 small business owners. Have you ever had to talk with some of those people about finance? Holy shit. Many many many small business owners are big idea people that know ****ing nothing about business or finance. It's really sad. It's also why so many small businesses fail. They have no ****ing idea how to manage cost of goods or sky-high labor costs. They don't realize that they could solve their problems by cutting people (especially management) and personally working more hours or simply raise their ****ing prices. They have no idea how much taxes are really affecting them. They just know that they made it through another week, so everything is wonderful. Then 10 months later they are bankrupt and blaming everyone else but themselves.

I work for a bank. In the commercial credit department. For small-mid size companies. I deal with exactly the type of people you are referring to all day, every day. There is nothing about your last paragraph that is not completely accurate. I wouldn't say that they don't know about finance necessary - most do - it's just that they are tireless workers, who refuse to believe that anything other than hard work and entrepreneurial spirit could be the determining factor in the success of their business. So they consider finance, taxes, etc, to be irrelevant, more due to ideology than for any firm, academic reasons.

[iZuma 764]

well I work in a semi-managerial position in a large multi-national finance corporation, so everyone should just understand that with my perspective, I'm more of an authority on business and finance than anybody else here. not that I currently have an opinion on the topic currently being discussed, nor do I even remember what the topic currently being discussed is for that matter, just understand that everything I say on the topic is correct, and if I say you're wrong, you're wrong.

[strategy 4]

but the moment anyone asks you for a job, you'll be all ums and uhs.

[Dread Aidan 8]

well I work in a semi-managerial position in a large multi-national finance corporation

I feel like I'm getting closer to figuring out what you do.

[ShakeZuma 585]

but the moment anyone asks you for a job, you'll be all ums and uhs.

semi-managerial

I feel like I'm getting closer to figuring out what you do.

I make and sell soap.

[hblask 1]

Obama: "This is the government, where failure is evidence that we need to do more of that. Please waste another $400B so I can pretend to be doing something. Oh, and Republicans are bad, vote for me."

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Obama: "This is the government, where failure is evidence that we need to do more of that. Please waste another $400B so I can pretend to be doing something. Oh, and Republicans are bad, vote for me."

Very nuanced and intelligent reading of what he said. Thanks for contributing to the level of dialogue and discourse in this forum.

[brvheart 1,752]

Obama: "This is the government, where failure is evidence that we need to do more of that. Please waste another $400B so I can pretend to be doing something. Oh, and Republicans are bad, vote for me."

I thought he sounded very centrist myself. All I could think about is how pissed democrats have to be by what he said. He said they were going to cut Medicare and medicaid, lower taxes, and pay for the entore jobs bill by cutting even more than what was required. Those are all republican talking points.

[CaneBrain 95]

I thought he sounded very centrist myself. All I could think about is how pissed democrats have to be by what he said. He said they were going to cut Medicare and medicaid, lower taxes, and pay for the entore jobs bill by cutting even more than what was required. Those are all republican talking points.

That's bc you listened. Henry checked out a while ago. Ever since he passed the health care bill, Obama has been a centrist weanie....yet fox news keeps pushing how crazy left he is. Politics!

[mrdannyg 274]

I thought he sounded very centrist myself. All I could think about is how pissed democrats have to be by what he said. He said they were going to cut Medicare and medicaid, lower taxes, and pay for the entore jobs bill by cutting even more than what was required. Those are all republican talking points.

After reading the transcript, I was trying to figure out who would be more pissed off - Republicans (because they hate everything Democrat) or Democrats (because it was a significant Repub reach).Like all Presidents, seems like Obama wants to be centrist and a consensus-builder. With this speech, it actually seems like he is one. I have no idea if that is a good thing or not. Lots of R talking points in his speech. Sounds more like a centrist-leaning R speech than a leading D speech.

[hblask 1]

I thought he sounded very centrist myself. All I could think about is how pissed democrats have to be by what he said. He said they were going to cut Medicare and medicaid, lower taxes, and pay for the entore jobs bill by cutting even more than what was required. Those are all republican talking points.

I just read the headlines, I can't actually watch him talk anymore. All those things sound great if he had any intention of doing them, but he is, after all, Obama. In his next speech he'll say the opposite.

[akoff 0]

That's bc you listened. Henry checked out a while ago. Ever since he passed the health care bill, Obama has been a centrist weanie....yet fox news keeps pushing how crazy left he is. Politics!

yep - only passed the worst thing in the history of country...the one that may well bankrupt us if left unchecked - the same one that is going to choke his beloved voter base to death for years - he wasted a few trillion in the stimulus - raised our debt ceiling and was the leader of a party that put wasted more money faster then every other adminstration combined. we need more centrists like that.

[mrdannyg 274]

I just don't understand why anyone who already knows how they're going to vote for in the next 50 years would bother taking part in political discussions. Wouldn't it get boring - not even considering your own opinion, and not listening to the other side carefully enough to debate reasonably?

[strategy 4]

I haven't looked at the news or anything, but I think the markets are down because they don't believe it'll be anything but a political pissing match.really, why would the republicans want to push to fix the economy now, especially with obama coming out with such a big, easy to ridicule number? it's actually in their best interests for the shit to hit the fan...

[hblask 1]

I just don't understand why anyone who already knows how they're going to vote for in the next 50 years would bother taking part in political discussions. Wouldn't it get boring - not even considering your own opinion, and not listening to the other side carefully enough to debate reasonably?

I definitely know many of the people I won't vote for in the next election or ever. But I separate politicians from policy. I find discussing specific policies interesting and informative. I find discussing politicians a bit boring except to point out "X supported policy Y".

[Balloon guy 158]

I just don't understand why anyone who already knows how they're going to vote for in the next 50 years would bother taking part in political discussions. Wouldn't it get boring - not even considering your own opinion, and not listening to the other side carefully enough to debate reasonably?

Says the Canadian..regarding American politics?Besides, I would be willing to vote democrat, if the poll question was ever: "Which party is the wort thing ever for American?"

[strategy 4]

honestly, I think the plan is fine. I think we NEED to do something to make sure the recovery doesn't fail. extended periods of high unemployment are really bad when your country has made a huge investment in human capital (higher education loans).

[Balloon guy 158]

honestly, I think the plan is fine. I think we NEED to do something to make sure the recovery doesn't fail. extended periods of high unemployment are really bad when your country has made a huge investment in human capital (higher education loans).

Unemployment will reach 10% and stay there long before any government program by either side will change it.

[mrdannyg 274]

I haven't looked at the news or anything, but I think the markets are down because they don't believe it'll be anything but a political pissing match.really, why would the republicans want to push to fix the economy now, especially with obama coming out with such a big, easy to ridicule number? it's actually in their best interests for the shit to hit the fan...

Of course it will. Obama proposed exactly what the R's have been whining about. Now the details will have to be agreed to, which won't happen. So Obama can call the R's a bunch of obstructionists who don't even support their own ideas, and the R's can say Obama didn't get anything done, and the economy went to crap under him.I know who I think is dumber, but the whole thing is so dumb it seems sad.

Says the Canadian..regarding American politics?Besides, I would be willing to vote democrat, if the poll question was ever: "Which party is the wort thing ever for American?"

I hope you say "wort thing" and left it there, because that is pretty funny.

[Dread Aidan 8]

I totally agree with some of the stuff that was said in the last ten or so posts, but really disagree with some other stuff. Probably. I don't know, I kind of skimmed it. Anyway, what is the goal of the payroll tax cut? It's only for employees, not employers, right? So it just means that those people who are already working will be able to pocket a little extra money, but it doesn't provide any kind of incentive for companies to hire more. It doesn't change their side of the equation at all. If you want to put more money into the economy, you need more people working, not the current workforce netting a little more. Not that I'm against it; more money for me, you know?

[El Guapo 8]

I totally agree with some of the stuff that was said in the last ten or so posts, but really disagree with some other stuff. Probably. I don't know, I kind of skimmed it. Anyway, what is the goal of the payroll tax cut? It's only for employees, not employers, right? So it just means that those people who are already working will be able to pocket a little extra money, but it doesn't provide any kind of incentive for companies to hire more. It doesn't change their side of the equation at all. If you want to put more money into the economy, you need more people working, not the current workforce netting a little more. Not that I'm against it; more money for me, you know?

Ya, this is the part that is frustrating me. Typically I would be all for tax cuts, but this is not where it should be done at this time. SS is already underfunded, this is just going to add to the problem.