AimHigher 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($30.65)Hero (CO) ($32.50)Button ($28.10)SB ($25.10)BB ($21.55)UTG ($26.15)Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K2 folds, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75Flop: ($3.10) Q, 8, A(3 players)BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, 1 fold, BB raises to $6, Hero calls $3.50Turn: ($15.10) 4(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $15, 1 foldTotal pot: $15.10 | Rake: $0.70Are the two bolded parts ok?BB is 26/22/2 over like 100 hands. I only have about 25 hands or so with him on this table, but I'm about 1k hands into my 4 tabling session and I've seen him on other tables during that time. He multi-tables and seems like a regular. Button is pretty donkish, like 54/18/2. On the flop I thought about folding, but I decided to flat because I felt he could be doing this with something like AJ/AT. I was really only worried about AQ or 88 because I felt he'd reraise everything else. Link to post Share on other sites
ABigMotivation 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Folding that flop is too nitty especially for a smallish raise, and three betting seems out of control so I think a flat is the best option. I probably dont bet as much on the turn, more like 10$. It will send the same message as a pot sized bet but if he had raised then its cheaper to get out if you decide to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I bet less on the turn, $12 or so, to encourage calls / spazz shoves from worse aces or draws. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 I think he only had something like $14.50 left. When he didn't shove the turn I pretty much narrowed him to like AJ/AT, I thought there was a slight chance that he'd checked to induce a bet from me but it was more likely he had a naked ace.Since he's only got less than the pot left, what's the best way to induce him to stack off? Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Oh, ok -sorry, didn't notice stack sizes. I just put him in like you did, in that case. Without draws on board we can check behind and encourage him to "value bet" his weaker ace or to outright bluff. As is we cannot let him see a free river.btw, signature .gif = LAGGG Link to post Share on other sites
BellaireDrew 2 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Oh, ok -sorry, didn't notice stack sizes. I just put him in like you did, in that case. Without draws on board we can check behind and encourage him to "value bet" his weaker ace or to outright bluff. As is we cannot let him see a free river.btw, signature .gif = LAGGGThis. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I bet less on the turn, $12 or so, to encourage calls / spazz shoves from worse aces or draws.This^. Don't bet so much on the turn Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 This^. Don't bet so much on the turnThe guy only has the pot-size left.I play it the same. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Am I the only one that finds check raises on the flop to be really strong? I mean I guess you don't really have to a choice on how to play it based on the guys stack size, but I expect him to have a two pair/set a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Are the two bolded parts ok?BB is 26/22/2 over like 100 hands. I only have about 25 hands or so with him on this table, but I'm about 1k hands into my 4 tabling session and I've seen him on other tables during that time. He multi-tables and seems like a regular. Button is pretty donkish, like 54/18/2. On the flop I thought about folding, but I decided to flat because I felt he could be doing this with something like AJ/AT. I was really only worried about AQ or 88 because I felt he'd reraise everything else.I think it's OK, but if we're calling, we're marrying the hand and shoving any non-flush turn. I think we need to make a note that villain can check raise/fold, and we need to see what the means over time.Am I the only one that finds check raises on the flop to be really strong? I mean I guess you don't really have to a choice on how to play it based on the guys stack size, but I expect him to have a two pair/set a lot.I pretty much agree. I suspect villain butchered some kind of draw here and looked at the turn, his odds, his stack, and regretted the flop CR Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Am I the only one that finds check raises on the flop to be really strong?Flop check-raises are the weakest of check-raises.Here's villain's "reasonable" range on the flop (which includes no outright bluffs, doesn't contain non-draw pairs below top pair, and leaves out some of the worst offsuit rag aces):AcAs,QcQd,QcQs,QdQs,8c8h,8c8s,8h8s,AcKc,AcQc,AsQs,AcJc,AsJs,AcTc,AsTs,Ac9c,As9s,Ac8c,As8s,Ac7c,As7s,Ac6c,As6s,Ac5c,As5s,Ac4c,As4s,Ac3c,As3s,Ac2c,As2s,KdQd,KdJd,KhJh,KdTd,Kd9d,Kd7d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,Qc8c,Qs8s,JdTd,JhTh,Jd9d,Jh9h,Td9d,AcKd,AcKh,AsKc,AsKd,AsKh,AcQd,AcQs,AsQc,AsQd,AcJd,AcJh,AcJs,AsJc,AsJd,AsJh,AcTd,AcTh,AcTs,AsTc,AsTd,AsTh,Ac9d,Ac9h,Ac9s,As9c,As9d,As9h,Ac8h,Ac8s,As8c,As8h,Ac7d,Ac7h,Ac7s,As7c,As7d,As7h,JToWe have 62.5% equity. You want to fold?By my count, there are 95 hands in that range. 7 of those beat us. 6 of those tie us. Against the rest, we currently have the best hand. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Flop check-raises are the weakest of check-raises.Here's villain's "reasonable" range on the flop (which includes no outright bluffs, doesn't contain non-draw pairs below top pair, and leaves out some of the worst offsuit rag aces):AcAs,QcQd,QcQs,QdQs,8c8h,8c8s,8h8s,AcKc,AcQc,AsQs,AcJc,AsJs,AcTc,AsTs,Ac9c,As9s,Ac8c,As8s,Ac7c,As7s,Ac6c,As6s,Ac5c,As5s,Ac4c,As4s,Ac3c,As3s,Ac2c,As2s,KdQd,KdJd,KhJh,KdTd,Kd9d,Kd7d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,Qc8c,Qs8s,JdTd,JhTh,Jd9d,Jh9h,Td9d,AcKd,AcKh,AsKc,AsKd,AsKh,AcQd,AcQs,AsQc,AsQd,AcJd,AcJh,AcJs,AsJc,AsJd,AsJh,AcTd,AcTh,AcTs,AsTc,AsTd,AsTh,Ac9d,Ac9h,Ac9s,As9c,As9d,As9h,Ac8h,Ac8s,As8c,As8h,Ac7d,Ac7h,Ac7s,As7c,As7d,As7h,JToWe have 62.5% equity. You want to fold?By my count, there are 95 hands in that range. 7 of those beat us. 6 of those tie us. Against the rest, we currently have the best hand.Bah, adding suits makes my brain hurt.For speculation's sake, what about if he shoves the turn? I think his range is a lot stronger when he follows up the check-raise with a shove than when he checks the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Flop check-raises are the weakest of check-raises.Here's villain's "reasonable" range on the flop (which includes no outright bluffs, doesn't contain non-draw pairs below top pair, and leaves out some of the worst offsuit rag aces):AcAs,QcQd,QcQs,QdQs,8c8h,8c8s,8h8s,AcKc,AcQc,AsQs,AcJc,AsJs,AcTc,AsTs,KdQd,KdJd,KhJh,KdTd,Kd9d,Kd7d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,Qc8c,Qs8s,JdTd,JhTh,Jd9d,Jh9h,Td9d,AcKd,AcKh,AsKc,AsKd,AsKh,AcQd,AcQs,AsQc,AsQd,AcJd,AcJh,AcJs,AsJc,AsJd,AsJh,Ac8h,Ac8s,As8c,As8h,,JToWe have 62.5% equity. You want to fold?By my count, there are 95 hands in that range. 7 of those beat us. 6 of those tie us. Against the rest, we currently have the best hand.I think what I have up there is a closer range to what he might show up with IMHO Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 For speculation's sake, what about if he shoves the turn? I think his range is a lot stronger when he follows up the check-raise with a shove than when he checks the turn.To be honest, he really shouldn't be check-raising here with really anything without intentions of shoving the turn. That said, if he does check, it is considerably weaker.I think what I have up there is a closer range to what he might show up with IMHOStill 50% equity, which means we can't fold with all the money in the pot and that smallish raise. Link to post Share on other sites
Solar 0 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 If he shoves the turn I think you insta fold it.Otherwise I probably play it similar. It does seem odd to me that we just flat the flop then put him all in on the turn when he could have a draw. I have a lot of sympathy for re-raising the flop. Kinda read dependant though. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Given that the board is drawy plus he could be a donk with a worse A who would stack off with it, plus he has 80bbs, I reraise the flop.Normally I just call the flop raise and fold to any more aggression or possibly call a turn bet. I don't particularly like your bet on the turn, if you're going for value the bet small. If you are going to bet the turn I'd raise the flop in general. (unless your plan was to wait for safe turn card before getting your money in, which isn't a bad plan)Mark Link to post Share on other sites
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