Tough Spot With Jj, Thoughts Please.

[Sick Boy 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10+$1 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (t3040)UTG (t2470)UTG+1 (t8860)MP1 (t2180)MP2 (t3810)MP3 (t3105)Hero (CO) (t2910)Button (t2940)SB (t3780)Hero's M: 64.67Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP3 calls t30, Hero raises to t135, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t105, MP1 calls t105, MP3 calls t105Flop: (t585) 4, 4, 9(4 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets t585, UTG+1 raises to t8725 (All-In), 1 fold, MP3 calls t2970 (All-In), Hero????So the two dudes that are all in here are fcking idiots. I mean ive seen them shove in with like middle pair, top pair no kicker, flush draws, and also with absolutly nothing. It was just ridiculas really, every single hand these two guys are shoving their chips in. The question is are you making this call and risking your whole tournament? Its a monster pot, are we getting the right price to call here? Or do we fold and wait for a better spot, what with our M at 64. Thoughts?

[Mercury69 3]

Call. Punch screen when one of them turns up a 9 and hits trips on the turn/river.

[Gallo 1]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10+$1 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (t3040)UTG (t2470)UTG+1 (t8860)MP1 (t2180)MP2 (t3810)MP3 (t3105)Hero (CO) (t2910)Button (t2940)SB (t3780)Hero's M: 64.67Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP3 calls t30, Hero raises to t135, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t105, MP1 calls t105, MP3 calls t105Flop: (t585) 4, 4, 9(4 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets t585, UTG+1 raises to t8725 (All-In), 1 fold, MP3 calls t2970 (All-In), Hero????So the two dudes that are all in here are fcking idiots. I mean ive seen them shove in with like middle pair, top pair no kicker, flush draws, and also with absolutly nothing. It was just ridiculas really, every single hand these two guys are shoving their chips in. The question is are you making this call and risking your whole tournament? Its a monster pot, are we getting the right price to call here? Or do we fold and wait for a better spot, what with our M at 64. Thoughts?

Wow, really? I'd fold here and wait for a better spot tbh.

[SlackerInc 0]

In a vacuum it's an easy fold. With the info you added about the players, it's an easy call. You can't just let these aggro-donks roll over you and the rest of the table. Take a stand!

[Sick Boy 0]

In a vacuum it's an easy fold. With the info you added about the players, it's an easy call. You can't just let these aggro-donks roll over you and the rest of the table. Take a stand!

Yeah that's actually what I was thinking, usually this an instafold for my imo. But these guys have been all in 4 or 5 times already each. But does that justify a call here?

[sennin 0]

Given the info about them I probably call. Make it more preflop though..like 180, you want it to get HU. With the small raise you made, after the first caller everyone is priced in.

[litlebullet 0]

take their maney before someone else does

[Tehtoe 3]

Raise more pre, fist pump snap call given reads.

[Gallo 1]

So none of you guys give the idiots credit for a 4 here? I'm almost positive one of them has a draw, but pretty sure the other has the 4. I'm probably wrong, but meh. I mean Hero is betting pot here, so they must know that he has a strong hand, (Yes, I know they're idiots)

[Viticus 0]

So none of you guys give the idiots credit for a 4 here? I'm almost positive one of them has a draw, but pretty sure the other has the 4. I'm probably wrong, but meh. I mean Hero is betting pot here, so they must know that he has a strong hand, (Yes, I know they're idiots)

im giving one of them credit for a flush draw and the other credit for a hand like 89 or 910. the guy that flat check called all-in might have a four but why would the first guy shove a 4 here? even idiots dont want to scare players off with a set. i cant see folding this because i think you are ahead. i dont think you will be by the end of the hand, haha, but there is a ton of value in this pot.

[SGFULTON83 0]

Given the information, I call and expect to be outdrawn.

[TrueAce13 18]

Raise more pre, fist pump snap call given reads.

[Gallo 1]

I actually think the PF raise is fine. I really don't like to over-commit too many chips PF. I mean, I like to thin the field a bit, but if I still get this many callers, so be it.

[MovingIn 0]

So none of you guys give the idiots credit for a 4 here? I'm almost positive one of them has a draw, but pretty sure the other has the 4. I'm probably wrong, but meh. I mean Hero is betting pot here, so they must know that he has a strong hand, (Yes, I know they're idiots)

Even the biggest idiots know to keep customers when they flop a truly big hand. The donk with 8700+ has to be bluffing. With the other guy, I think we see a pocket pair or Ax more often than a 9, let alone a 4... assuming he even has anything at all. Really, if we run into a 4 against these guys, that's just a cooler, and with the way things here have already gone, with two idiots running over the table, it's not looking good even though we have chips to sit on if we're going to fold here and in similar marginal situations while we still have enough chips for a double up+ to matter.If these idiots are going to run over the table, we might as well be felted for all the good our stack does us. In many of these cases, even if you catch a hand slowplay, such villains quickly get impatient once they catch on and start shoving flops and turns, leaving you with a decision to call off your chips with your top pairs. Would you call off? If you can't call off here, I doubt it.Your buy-in's basically gone anyway if you can't play back at guys like these in marginal situations, so you may as well get it in now. Most of the time, they don't have anything resembling the nuts.

[SlackerInc 0]

If these idiots are going to run over the table, we might as well be felted for all the good our stack does us. In many of these cases, even if you catch a hand slowplay, such villains quickly get impatient once they catch on and start shoving flops and turns, leaving you with a decision to call off your chips with your top pairs. Would you call off? If you can't call off here, I doubt it.Your buy-in's basically gone anyway if you can't play back at guys like these in marginal situations, so you may as well get it in now. Most of the time, they don't have anything resembling the nuts.

This is a really excellent point. These guys have changed the whole dynamic of the table, meaning you have to play much differently than normal or as you say just write off your buy-in. Sort of makes it a little like a super-turbo in a way.

[MovingIn 0]

Certainly, and typically you wouldn't play this hand like this. Of course, should we succeed in calling them down... once we chop these stacks down some and they calm down, then not only can we revert to our standard game, but we'll have a big stack to work with as well, plus improved table image from taking a stand against two maniacs and holding up.

[SlackerInc 0]

Certainly, and typically you wouldn't play this hand like this. Of course, should we succeed in calling them down... once we chop these stacks down some and they calm down, then not only can we revert to our standard game, but we'll have a big stack to work with as well, plus improved table image from taking a stand against two maniacs and holding up.

Somehow I doubt they will calm down if their chip stacks go down. IME, going out in a blaze of glory is more likely.

[chrispycream 0]

Given the information, I call and expect to be outdrawn.

This. I think the initial shover probably has a flush draw, and the other has a hand with a suited 9. Pray that they both have diamonds and yell HOLD as loudly as possible.

[shpaget 0]

Even the biggest idiots know to keep customers when they flop a truly big hand.

The question is - Have they gone all in AGAINST EACH OTHER previously...or is it always one or the other?Have they been raising all in, or calling all in, or both?One thing I've learned...idiots think they're good, but they recognize other idiots.Unless these players are colluding, they probably see each other as total donkeys.That means idiot A might be pushing with a strong hand, expecting idiot B to call.The other point, as has been raised...idiots call preflop raises with A4.

[Gallo 1]

Results?