Newsweek Article On Palin

[Zealous Donkey 0]

But he should be running as someone whose abilities make him better than some small town hick. The process of the campaign should be to convince us of who is more elite and thus more suited to the job.

Who would you rather run your business, an MBA from an Ivy league school, or someone who has successfully run a business for 15 years?Elitists would pick the MBA and dismiss the successful businessman as just a small town hick.

[vbnautilus 48]

Who would you rather run your business, an MBA from an Ivy league school, or someone who has successfully run a business for 15 years?Elitists would pick the MBA and dismiss the successful businessman as just a small town hick.

No, we're not comparing empty qualifications versus experience. We are talking about having qualities that are relevant to the job, like intelligence, judgement, awareness of the realities of the world... we want the smartest, sharpest person we can find.

[vbnautilus 48]

By insulting small town religious people? That's supposed to make us think he's qualified?Elite <> elitist.

I don't know what insult you are referring to.

[hblask 1]

I don't know what insult you are referring to.

I think you know, but here:

He repeated similar quotes on other occasions, but I'm too lazy to look them up. I'm sure someone here will pick up the ball.

[mk 11]

comments in this thread by copper and hblask are just astonishing, new lows for both of you. the orwellian hatred of knowledge in modern conservatives scares me more than just about anything.ORTHODOXY MEANS NOT THINKING—NOT NEEDING TO THINK. ORTHODOXY IS UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

[El Guapo 8]

No, we're not comparing empty qualifications versus experience. We are talking about having qualities that are relevant to the job, like intelligence, judgement, awareness of the realities of the world... we want the smartest, sharpest person we can find.

I would argue (ineffectively of course) that once you get past a certain point on the right of an IQ bell curve that, that person becomes less fit to do something such as run the country. Common sense and a connection to the plight of the average citizen seems to disconnect in highly intelligent people.

[hblask 1]

comments in this thread by copper and hblask are just astonishing, new lows for both of you. the orwellian hatred of knowledge in modern conservatives scares me more than just about anything.ORTHODOXY MEANS NOT THINKING—NOT NEEDING TO THINK. ORTHODOXY IS UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

LOL. I at no point said I agree with the notion that Obama is elitist. I was mostly just explaining the difference between elite and elitist, and which of those Obama is accused of. He does have a record of statements that are pretty unambiguous in their meaning, though. Whether he is just misunderstood or is really and Algore-style prick, well, I'll let the sheep who vote for the lesser of two evils decide that.And me orthodox? That's pretty funny, considering that both sides regularly accuse me of being a pawn for the other side.

[copernicus 0]

comments in this thread by copper and hblask are just astonishing, new lows for both of you. the orwellian hatred of knowledge in modern conservatives scares me more than just about anything.ORTHODOXY MEANS NOT THINKING—NOT NEEDING TO THINK. ORTHODOXY IS UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

good thing there is no hatred of knowledge coming from either of us.

[vbnautilus 48]

I would argue (ineffectively of course) that once you get past a certain point on the right of an IQ bell curve that, that person becomes less fit to do something such as run the country. Common sense and a connection to the plight of the average citizen seems to disconnect in highly intelligent people.

What does it mean a "connection to the plight of the average citizen"? Does it mean that you are an average citizen? If so, I think that's really not what we want at the top. Does it just mean that you care about the average citizen? I don't see any evidence that anyone running for this office doesn't care about the average citizen (who the heck is an average citizen anyway?). Certainly Obama is intelligent and has plenty of "connection" through his ridiculed community organizer experience. The idea that increased intelligence comes at the cost of "common sense" is only true in the sense that "common" sense includes all kinds of errors and crazy superstitious ideas.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

LOL. I at no point said I agree with the notion that Obama is elitist. I was mostly just explaining the difference between elite and elitist, and which of those Obama is accused of. He does have a record of statements that are pretty unambiguous in their meaning, though. Whether he is just misunderstood or is really and Algore-style prick, well, I'll let the sheep who vote for the lesser of two evils decide that.And me orthodox? That's pretty funny, considering that both sides regularly accuse me of being a pawn for the other side.

I disagree with you. Obama is the very definition of elitist. He, like Sam Harris, think something is wrong with anyone who disagrees with them. "They are "stupid", "uneducated", "racist", "Jesus Freaks", ect. "Clinging to their guns and religion" is as about an elitist statement as one can make.

[copernicus 0]

Certainly Obama is intelligent and has plenty of "connection" through his ridiculed community organizer experience.

his connections through community organizing are not with the average citizen, its with the poor and with the Chicago political/fundraising machine. The former is fine, the latter is a disaster. Take a look at the 3 most influential women in his campaign organization. All from the Chicago machine and all radical lefties. These are the people he will have to pay back if he wins.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I would argue (ineffectively of course) that once you get past a certain point on the right of an IQ bell curve that, that person becomes less fit to do something such as run the country. Common sense and a connection to the plight of the average citizen seems to disconnect in highly intelligent people.

How does Sam Harris even define intelligence? Obviously he doesn't know Sarah Palin's IQ. He has the faulty premise that Christianty/Religious = Unintelligent. It is the same as the faulty premise that some Christians have about atheists: Atheism = Immorality

[vbnautilus 48]

I disagree with you. Obama is the very definition of elitist. He, like Sam Harris, think something is wrong with anyone who disagrees with them. "They are "stupid", "uneducated", "racist", "Jesus Freaks", ect. "Clinging to their guns and religion" is as about an elitist statement as one can make.

Well, this is nonsense and really avoids responding to the issue. There are plenty of people who disagree with us that are intelligent. SH and I have disagreed at times and both consider the other intelligent. But if you think that valuing intelligence makes one elitist, then count me among the elitists.

[El Guapo 8]

What does it mean a "connection to the plight of the average citizen"? Does it mean that you are an average citizen? If so, I think that's really not what we want at the top. Does it just mean that you care about the average citizen? I don't see any evidence that anyone running for this office doesn't care about the average citizen (who the heck is an average citizen anyway?). Certainly Obama is intelligent and has plenty of "connection" through his ridiculed community organizer experience. The idea that increased intelligence comes at the cost of "common sense" is only true in the sense that "common" sense includes all kinds of errors and crazy superstitious ideas.

Some how I think you called me dumb twice in this post. Not sure how I feel about this.I was actually not referring to Obama at all, just the notion that the higher your IQ the better you are at leading this country.Not to sound egotistical, but I do think that someone like me, would be better suited to be president than some of the nominees thrown up there. I do not believe to be a good president you need to have a long standing in politics, just the opposite in fact. But at the same time I personally would never want to be president. Obviously there is no way to quantify IQ vs. common sense. But some of the people who I know have tested out in the 130 IQ and above range make some of the dumbest life decision I have ever seen.

[vbnautilus 48]

Some how I think you called me dumb twice in this post. Not sure how I feel about this.

I certainly didn't intend to... I can't see where I did that. edit: maybe you misunderstood what i meant by "you are an average citizen". I wasn't calling you an average citizen, I was asking if to have a connection with the average citizen would mean that one was an average citizen.

I was actually not referring to Obama at all, just the notion that the higher your IQ the better you are at leading this country.

IQ is a very narrow way to define intelligence.

I do not believe to be a good president you need to have a long standing in politics, just the opposite in fact.

I agree

Obviously there is no way to quantify IQ vs. common sense. But some of the people who I know have tested out in the 130 IQ and above range make some of the dumbest life decision I have ever seen.

Well then we wouldn't choose them as president. We're looking for a needle in a haystack here, the person who is *best* qualified for this job. No one says that any intelligent person would make a great president. It's just that the person who we choose should show extraordinary mental capabilites.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Well, this is nonsense and really avoids responding to the issue. There are plenty of people who disagree with us that are intelligent. SH and I have disagreed at times and both consider the other intelligent. But if you think that valuing intelligence makes one elitist, then count me among the elitists.

No IMO it is at the very heart of the issue. Why do you and SH assume that Palin supporters don't value intelligence? You assume because of their ideology that they are uneducated. If this is not true then correct me. I too value intelligence, obviously that is not what I mean when I say elitist.

[vbnautilus 48]

No IMO it is at the very heart of the issue. Why do you and SH assume that Palin supporters don't value intelligence? You assume because of their ideology that they are uneducated. If this is not true then correct me. I too value intelligence, obviously that is not what I mean when I say elitist.

It is not an "assumption". It is a conclusion based on evidence. If you think Sarah Palin was chosen because she is the has the sharpest, most well-developed mind, or the deepest insight into the complex systems that drive international politics or the economy, then you might want to let the campaign know so they can start advertising her that way instead of as a small town hockey mom. As for her education, that is a matter of public record. She enrolled at Hawaii Pacific College, left after one semester and transferred to North Idaho College, spent two semesters there and transfered to the University of Idaho, where she spent two additional semesters before transferring to Matanusksa-Susitna College before finally finishing at University of Idaho once again. Sound like one of our top academic achievers to you?

[Balloon guy 158]

It is not an "assumption". It is a conclusion based on evidence. If you think Sarah Palin was chosen because she is the has the sharpest, most well-developed mind, or the deepest insight into the complex systems that drive international politics or the economy, then you might want to let the campaign know so they can start advertising her that way instead of as a small town hockey mom. As for her education, that is a matter of public record. She enrolled at Hawaii Pacific College, left after one semester and transferred to North Idaho College, spent two semesters there and transfered to the University of Idaho, where she spent two additional semesters before transferring to Matanusksa-Susitna College before finally finishing at University of Idaho once again. Sound like one of our top academic achievers to you?

Sounds like a well rounded diverse education with many world views and experiences. She probably learned the hard way about dealing with different cultures and the diverse problems facing the country.The fact that she took that all on and went on to become the governor of the largest state in the union is just a coincident I guess.

[vbnautilus 48]

Sounds like a well rounded diverse education with many world views and experiences. She probably learned the hard way about dealing with different cultures and the diverse problems facing the country.

Yes, she got to experience both Coeur d'Alene and Moscow, Idaho. Forget VP, sign her up for an ambassadorship! (not only has she seen Russia, but she lived in Moscow! )

The fact that she took that all on and went on to become the governor of the largest state in the union is just a coincident I guess.

I would think after taking on all those difficult community college classes she should have skipped the whole governorship and just ran for president straight out.

[hblask 1]

I would think after taking on all those difficult community college classes she should have skipped the whole governorship and just ran for president straight out.

NOW do you understand the difference between elite and elitist?

[SAM_Hard8 50]

As for her education, that is a matter of public record. She enrolled at Hawaii Pacific College, left after one semester and transferred to North Idaho College, spent two semesters there and transfered to the University of Idaho, where she spent two additional semesters before transferring to Matanusksa-Susitna College before finally finishing at University of Idaho once again. Sound like one of our top academic achievers to you?

Uhh have you checked Algore's educational experience? He makes Palin look like a Rhodes scholar.Oh and take a look at Kerry's grades at Yale.

[Balloon guy 158]

Uhh have you checked Algore's educational experience? He makes Palin look like a Rhodes scholar.Oh and take a look at Kerry's grades at Yale.

Kerry had a different set of smarts.The smarts that has him throwing someone else's medals over the fence at the anti-war protest, that way he could bring out the real medals when he ran for office.And the smarts to ignore how crazy Theresa is in order to hitch his wagon to that gravy cart.Kerry... a special kind of man.And Algore, you can call him dumb if you want to, but he invented a global scare, created a business that sells nothing but feelings and is cashing in on the fear he created with a make believe hoax that was mostly spread on the interweb he claimed he built. And to make matter even more better, he lives in the most wasteful mansion he can afford, and gets a full pass from the people that will not admit that this goober is making millions making them look like fools.No, these men should have a special wing named after them in the school of political scumbags.

[vbnautilus 48]

NOW do you understand the difference between elite and elitist?

I've already said if you think elitism is valuing intelligence you can count me as an elitist. We are trying to find the most elite person.

Uhh have you checked Algore's educational experience? He makes Palin look like a Rhodes scholar.

Al Gore went to Harvard and graduated cum laude.

Oh and take a look at Kerry's grades at Yale.

You don't have to be an elitist to understand that one gets a better education at Yale than at Matanusksa-Susitna College. Otherwise everyone would be trying to get into MSC. Anyways, I'm not touting John Kerry as a man of distinct intelligence ( and I did not vote for him,) , I am responding to a direct question about Palin's education.

[hblask 1]

I've already said if you think elitism is valuing intelligence you can count me as an elitist.

I'm not sure if you are doing this on purpose, or if you really can't see the difference. This is not the kind of elitism Obama is accused of.Elite = talented, intelligent, top of their gameElitist = arrogant, looks down on others without cause.For example, Tony Romo is elite, yet humble.A statement like this:

I would think after taking on all those difficult community college classes she should have skipped the whole governorship and just ran for president straight out.

is elitist (although I am willing to admit that it is likely at least 50% for humor/shock value).Saying people won't vote for you because bitter people are clinging to guns and religion is elitist. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of this statement that makes it otherwise, but I am open to the possibility that it is being misinterpreted.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Al Gore went to Harvard and graduated cum laude.

A bachelor of arts degree is easy to get especially with family connections, check out his years at Vanderbilt, I think it was 6 years and zero degree's.