Newsweek Article On Palin

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I think you are posting the main difference between Conservative and Democrats.Conservative: For most things we are smart enough to take care of it on our own.Democrats: Most people are not smart and cannot think for themselves, thus we need really smart people in office to make those decisions for you.BTW who is SH?

Wow, very well said. You are becoming my new hero.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

The problem, as far as our political process is concerned, is that half the electorate revels in Palin's lack of intellectual qualifications. When it comes to politics, there is a mad love of mediocrity in this country. "They think they're better than you!" is the refrain that (highly competent and cynical) Republican strategists have set loose among the crowd, and the crowd has grown drunk on it once again. "Sarah Palin is an ordinary person!" Yes, all too ordinary.We have all now witnessed apparently sentient human beings, once provoked by a reporter's microphone, saying things like, "I'm voting for Sarah because she's a mom. She knows what it's like to be a mom." Such sentiments suggest an uncanny (and, one fears, especially American) detachment from the real problems of today. The next administration must immediately confront issues like nuclear proliferation, ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and covert wars elsewhere), global climate change, a convulsing economy, Russian belligerence, the rise of China, emerging epidemics, Islamism on a hundred fronts, a defunct United Nations, the deterioration of American schools, failures of energy, infrastructure and Internet security … the list is long, and Sarah Palin does not seem competent even to rank these items in order of importance, much less address any one of them.

This a load of crap, he is painting with such a large brush he could paint a billboard with one stroke. This entire quote is condescending.Nobody I know is voting for her because of her lack of intellectual qualifications or because she is mediocre. I'm voting for Sarah because she's a mom. She knows what it's like to be a mom. I heard this many time about Hillary and I bet he didn't have a problem with it then. What is wrong with a woman finding someone she can identify with? It's OK for blacks to vote for Barry for the same reason. the list is long, and Sarah Palin does not seem competent even to rank these items in order of importance, much less address any one of them This is the elitist attitude that is making her a hero among the proletariat. He is saying person from a simple American background can't possibly understand this stuff. He is very wrong.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think you are posting the main difference between Conservative and Democrats.Conservative: For most things we are smart enough to take care of it on our own.Democrats: Most people are not smart and cannot think for themselves, thus we need really smart people in office to make those decisions for you.BTW who is SH?

Meh, I don't think that captures this issue. There are things we don't have the opportunity to take care of on our own; most of us won't be meeting with Putin or commanding the armed forces. We need to pick one person to do that stuff. SH = Sam Harris, he wrote the article I linked to in the OP. He's a friend and collaborator of mine who has written a couple of best-selling books criticizing religion.

[vbnautilus 48]

He is saying person from a simple American background can't possibly understand this stuff. He is very wrong.

No, he's saying this particular person from a simple American background doesn't understand this stuff. And he's right.

[vbnautilus 48]

No I think she is being marketed as a true Washington outsider that has acted against the status quo of politics as usual. She(and McCain) actually are what Obama tries to represent. And to any undecided voters this is obvious. As I stated in an earlier post once you start digging under the surface of Obama's persona there is nothing there except an intelligent, talented politician.

I don't see how you can paint McCain as a Washington outsider and still maintain any credibility.

[El Guapo 8]

Meh, I don't think that captures this issue. There are things we don't have the opportunity to take care of on our own; most of us won't be meeting with Putin or commanding the armed forces. We need to pick one person to do that stuff. SH = Sam Harris, he wrote the article I linked to in the OP. He's a friend and collaborator of mine who has written a couple of best-selling books criticizing religion.

SH - GotchaI choose my words carefully. I said "most". We obv need military, police, fire, roads, etc. certain regulatory agencies for Monopolies, market manipulation and so on and so on.Being conservative does not mean NO GOV, it means less, and more onus on the state level. Republicans of today are not true Conservatives, and this right here, is the reason that Palin is getting so much love from us. She embodies the ideals of true conservatives (the most in recent history at least, as I have stated before we will never get someone we see eye to eye with).

[SAM_Hard8 50]

No, he's saying this particular person from a simple American background doesn't understand this stuff. And he's right.

Matter of opinion, IMHO he's wrong.Most Americans will disagree with most everything he writes, especially about religion.Nothing about the rest of what I said.

[Balloon guy 158]

Meh, I don't think that captures this issue. There are things we don't have the opportunity to take care of on our own; most of us won't be meeting with Putin or commanding the armed forces. We need to pick one person to do that stuff. SH = Sam Harris, he wrote the article I linked to in the OP. He's a friend and collaborator of mine who has written a couple of best-selling books criticizing religion.

Well now we get to the root of elitism, claiming to know enough about the entire universe to tell other people they are wrong for believing in God.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

I don't see how you can paint McCain as a Washington outsider and still maintain any credibility.

No I think she is being marketed as a true Washington outsider that has acted against the status quo of politics as usual. She(and McCain) actually are what Obama tries to represent. And to any undecided voters this is obvious. As I stated in an earlier post once you start digging under the surface of Obama's persona there is nothing there except an intelligent, talented politician.

RIF

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I don't see how you can paint McCain as a Washington outsider and still maintain any credibility.

No. He is a politician alright and he acts like one. But he does have core values and when those are effected he makes a stand against whoever opposes him regardless of their partly affiliation. Like supporting the surge when the whole world was against it. McCain is less an insider than most though I agree with you that he has to be considered an inside player.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

\quote name='vbnautilus' date='Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 5:39 PM' post='2803124']No, he's saying this particular person from a simple American background doesn't understand this stuff. And he's right.his is based on the fact that her degree is from Idaho and her interview with CG in which he(SH) misrepresented what she was saying.

[20TN40 0]

Yeah but if we were all in agreement that the president should be elite, then when a candidate paints themselves in that light it would not be considered snobbish, it would be just normal campaign work. There are certain contexts where it is acceptable, even necessary to talk oneself up; like in a job interview you're not taken as arrogant for touting your accomplishments. However, since some of us are attached to the idea that the president should be "just one of us" then anything said to elevate oneself becomes obnoxious.

Are you being contrary again? We want elite like a USA gold medal winner, confident and humble. If I had ever had any intention of voting for Obama (I haven't btw) his snobbish remarks about whites and Southerners would have killed it for me.

[20TN40 0]

Why do you think those things are mutually exclusive? You think Obama doesn't have a sense of responsibility and service?

Obama may have a sense of responsibility and service to everyone except us "gun toting, Bible thumping, Southern white" people. Or at least that what it sounds like when he talks.

[20TN40 0]

Let me ask you this. In recent History, have we unequivocally ever had the best man for the job running for President? I would guess that is a no.

I would say that we have, at two points, elected the best man for the current circumstances. I think we needed Kennedy when he got elected and I think we needed Reagan when he got elected.

[vbnautilus 48]

Well now we get to the root of elitism, claiming to know enough about the entire universe to tell other people they are wrong for believing in God.

And you can tell him he's wrong? Elitist!Look when the republicans want to put on a convention, they don't find someone who puts up party streamers like the rest of us, they find the guy who can do the best damned balloon drop you've ever seen. So why do they want a VP who is just like the rest of us?

[vbnautilus 48]

SH - GotchaI choose my words carefully. I said "most". We obv need military, police, fire, roads, etc. certain regulatory agencies for Monopolies, market manipulation and so on and so on.Being conservative does not mean NO GOV, it means less, and more onus on the state level. Republicans of today are not true Conservatives, and this right here, is the reason that Palin is getting so much love from us. She embodies the ideals of true conservatives (the most in recent history at least, as I have stated before we will never get someone we see eye to eye with).

No I get that and I agree with it for the most part, which is partly why I'm not a democrat. What I am saying about wanting someone really smart in there is not so that the government can make more decisions for us. It's so that the decisions they do have to make for us made as well as possible.

[vbnautilus 48]

Nothing about the rest of what I said.

The rest of what you said was basically to deny that she is being presented to us as a 'regular folk' kind of person. I don't think is worth the effort to gather evidence about that since it seems pretty plainly the strategy (for one thing the first half of the first speech she gave to us was about her family, not about her theory of world economics); and frankly what other strategy could have with her?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

No I get that and I agree with it for the most part, which is partly why I'm not a democrat. What I am saying about wanting someone really smart in there is not so that the government can make more decisions for us. It's so that the decisions they do have to make for us made as well as possible.

That's something I can agree with. Unfortunately we will never be a libertarian country as I would prefer, so we do need to become more effective in the administration of govt. BO will most certainly make the govt bigger, more expensive to run and even less efficient than it already is. I don't think McCain will do much better but believe things may get less worse on his watch. The only politicians I have heard even talking about new innovative approaches to make govt more efficient is the devil himself, Newt Gingrich.

[20TN40 0]

Meh, I don't think that captures this issue. There are things we don't have the opportunity to take care of on our own; most of us won't be meeting with Putin or commanding the armed forces. We need to pick one person to do that stuff. SH = Sam Harris, he wrote the article I linked to in the OP. He's a friend and collaborator of mine who has written a couple of best-selling books criticizing religion.

Why is it that you think Obama will do better speaking with Putin than McCain? Or since your friends article (I was trying to like him because of his last name, but it's not working) is directly talking about Palin, what about Biden makes you think he would be successful in talking with Putin or commanding the armed services?Or is it more what I've suspected all along..........you aren't arguing FOR Obama/Biden as much as you are arguing AGAINST McCain/Palin?

[vbnautilus 48]

Are you being contrary again? We want elite like a USA gold medal winner, confident and humble. If I had ever had any intention of voting for Obama (I haven't btw) his snobbish remarks about whites and Southerners would have killed it for me.

Which part of Sarah Palin is analogous to gold medal winner?

Obama may have a sense of responsibility and service to everyone except us "gun toting, Bible thumping, Southern white" people. Or at least that what it sounds like when he talks.

Come on now let's not forget what the guy actually said:But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points. But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.This gets translated into "bible-thumping" southerners? That's a bit of a stretch. He was talking about Pennsylvania for one thing, he didn't mention race, and he was most certainly not disavowing responsibility for these people; on the contrary he was talking about how to get them involved in the political process even though they are currently hopeless.

[vbnautilus 48]

Or is it more what I've suspected all along..........you aren't arguing FOR Obama/Biden as much as you are arguing AGAINST McCain/Palin?

Well I think I've been pretty clear about that. I'm not necessarily an Obama supporter. Although I think he has shown that he can think something through and verbalize his position in a rational and coherent way better than perhaps anyone I've seen go through this process in recent memory.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Which part of Sarah Palin is analogous to gold medal winner? Come on now let's not forget what the guy actually said:But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points. But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.This gets translated into "bible-thumping" southerners? That's a bit of a stretch. He was talking about Pennsylvania for one thing, he didn't mention race, and he was most certainly not disavowing responsibility for these people; on the contrary he was talking about how to get them involved in the political process even though they are currently hopeless.

It might be a stretch to say bible thumping southerners, but this is extremely condescending to think that he knows better why they feel the way they do. It is a perfect example of what is dangerous about the left wing in this country. If they lose an election it is because the "folks are too stupid to know any better". Take a look at the fairness doctrine which most certainly will be passed if Obama becomes president. It would take certain shows off the air because of thier content. Because people are too "stupid" for their own good to know what shows they enjoy listening to on the radio.

[vbnautilus 48]

Take a look at the fairness doctrine which most certainly will be passed if Obama becomes president. It would take certain shows off the air because of thier content. Because people are too "stupid" for their own good to know what shows they enjoy listening to on the radio.

That is pure FUD. Obama does not support the return of the fairness doctrine.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

The rest of what you said was basically to deny that she is being presented to us as a 'regular folk' kind of person. I don't think is worth the effort to gather evidence about that since it seems pretty plainly the strategy (for one thing the first half of the first speech she gave to us was about her family, not about her theory of world economics); and frankly what other strategy could have with her?

wow you really need to brush up on your comprehension because I said nothing of the kind.

[copernicus 0]

It is not an "assumption". It is a conclusion based on evidence.

lol, yes you are an elitist