**// Cy Young/mvp Talk \\**

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

So this season is almost over, and lets start arguing over who should win what.I just read this article by Yahoo sports and I thought it was very good. They talk about who should win the NL Cy Young (LINCECUM!)http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Agan...o&type=lgnsNL MVP is really interesting. Manny coming over and lifting the Dodgers. Pujols putting up god like numbers again or David Wright for helping the Mets stay on top of the NL East. I would have to give it to Pujols, simply because he is the best player in the NL if not the whole league. gogogo!

[timwakefield 68]

Manny can't get it because they still don't combine numbers when somebody is traded to the other league midseason (which is dumb).Also WTF @ Manny hitting like .587 with 900 homeruns the instant he leaves.

[Moneyball16 0]

At this point unless something happens down the stretch it will be bs if Pujols and Lincecum don't win in the NL. I dont think people can make the argument that Webb should win over Lincecum because he has more wins when Tims win % is over 100 points higher and Tims other numbers crush Webbs pretty badly and with Pujols his team is still kind of in the race and they are a lot better than everyone though they would be at the beginning of the season so I feel like it would be unfair to say that he isn't most valuable to his team or not clutch or whatever. If people decide to go with a player on a playoff team I think MVP should either be Reyes or Wright.For the AL its still pretty close to me for who I feel deserves to win and I think the last weeks will decide it. Lee and Halladay is much closer then people think due to the fact that Hallday has faced much harder lineups than Lee and still has comparable numbers. I think Lees been slightly better so far and has to be almost a lock in most peoples minds for AL CY Young.For AL MVP I think Lee, Pedroia and Sizemore are the most deserving and Pedroia will probably win for being on the best team even though he has been slightly worse than the others. If Hamilton wins it'll be pretty retarded since he might be only the 3rd most valuable on his team let alone the MVP of the league. I wouldnt give it to ARod either since I dont think hes been as good as Sizemore and he isnt contending either. Quentin mightve be a good pick before he got hurt. Morneau has been pretty good but im still bitter from his last win and I dont think hes as deserving as the others I mentioned. Youk could win and I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it either and just because the guys one of my favourite players and is having a great season I hope Joe Mauer gets some votes.

[chgocubs99 0]

Don't watch much AL baseball but as far as I'm concerned it's Lincecomb/Pujols in the NL/NL discussion

[TB17 0]

Uhm why Reyes Wright over Delgado?

[rocketpoker828 0]

Ship the AL Cy Young to Cliff Lee imo.

[Moneyball16 0]

Uhm why Reyes Wright over Delgado?

Cause Wright has hit better than Delgado this year, plays a tougher position and is better defensively. Reyes is pretty much the same thing but hasn't been quite as good with the bat but more than makes up for it for playing above average at shortstop. All things considered Delgado is basically a average starting first baseman and he shouldn't have a shot at MVP. Hes been great lately and in the second half but it doesnt make up for being complete shit before that. Beltran and Santana are also having better seasons than Delgado.

[chgocubs99 0]

Are you two joking? If Delgado, Wright, or (LOL) Reyes win the MVP it will be the biggest joke in the history of the award. Well, besides the year Ivan Rodriguez won it.

[Sportsmack 0]

as far as I'm concerned it's Webb/Manny in the NL/NL discussion

[Tactical Bear 3]

If it's me, I give the MVPs to Pujols and Sizemizzle. The NL choice is easy for me, and the AL choice is the best of a lot of mediocre options. I hate Sizemore, but he's probably deserving.I give the AL Cy Young to Lee. NL Cy is harder. I have no real lean between Santana, Lincecum, and Webb.

[timwakefield 68]

I'm gonna reserve judgment until the season is over (read: too lazy to pore over numbers right now), but I'm obviously voting rooting for Pedroia.

[MDXS 0]

I'm gonna reserve judgment until the season is over (read: too lazy to pore over numbers right now), but I'm obviously voting rooting for Pedroia.

Me too. Sizemore's been better, but in this case I'll probably be weighting the Playoff argument and WPA argument a little more heavily than usual. When it comes to Pedroia, I lose some rationality. Is this what...love...is...?Um...Anyway, I came to link to this article comparing Lee and Halladay. It pretty much backs up what Moneyball was saying.Also, I'm very thankful that no rogue Red Sox fans are making the Matsuzaka case. I worry that if Lee didn't have that pretty pretty record we'd be hearing it. We're better off without that kind of embarrassment.(I guess I'll be sticking to the kind of embarrassment that goes along with writing a paragraph like the first one of this post)

[showstopper24 0]

Ship the AL Cy Young to Cliff Lee imo.

I don't understand how there is even a debate for this (and I don't think there really is, but it gives the sports people something to talk about). K-Rod is great and even though he tied the record there isn't really a good chance of him winning the Cy Young award. What really pissed me off was when Skip Bayless said that the Cy Young was Daisuke Matsuzaka's to lose, not Cliff Lee's to win. When he said this, Dice-K wa 16-2 while Cliff was 19-2 and Cliff had a better ERA. Cy Young is the best pitching award and Skip was confusing it with the MVP award which pissed me off. As for the NL...I don't follow it too much but it would be sweet for CC to get it. I don't think he will, but has there been a better pitcher since he was traded?

If it's me, I give the MVPs to Pujols and Sizemizzle. The NL choice is easy for me, and the AL choice is the best of a lot of mediocre options. I hate Sizemore, but he's probably deserving.I give the AL Cy Young to Lee.

I agree with Pujols. He's amazing. I was watching PTI and they were saying that Manny or CC could win it. Manny hasn't been in the league long enough (IMO-I don't know if there is a minimum number of games one needs) but he and CC have definitely been very valuable to their teams and may singe handedly get those teams in the playoffs.As for Sizemore-being an Indians fan, I love him...BUT, I do think he is a bit over-rated. He's a great defender. It's great that he joined the 30-30 club because I think that's a huge accomplishment these days and he's a leadoff hitter that has a crap load of homers and a crap load of RBIs, which is great. But his average isn't that good. He just got a single but he went 25 at bats before that with out a hit. I realize everybody goes through cold spells, but I can't see an MVP winner that has an average of .260. Also, if he was really the most valuable player, how come the Indians sucked when we had Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, and Sizemore?

[MDXS 0]

I don't understand how there is even a debate for this (and I don't think there really is, but it gives the sports people something to talk about). K-Rod is great and even though he tied the record there isn't really a good chance of him winning the Cy Young award. What really pissed me off was when Skip Bayless said that the Cy Young was Daisuke Matsuzaka's to lose, not Cliff Lee's to win. When he said this, Dice-K wa 16-2 while Cliff was 19-2 and Cliff had a better ERA. Cy Young is the best pitching award and Skip was confusing it with the MVP award which pissed me off. As for Sizemore-being an Indians fan, I love him...BUT, I do think he is a bit over-rated. He's a great defender. It's great that he joined the 30-30 club because I think that's a huge accomplishment these days and he's a leadoff hitter that has a crap load of homers and a crap load of RBIs, which is great. But his average isn't that good. He just got a single but he went 25 at bats before that with out a hit. I realize everybody goes through cold spells, but I can't see an MVP winner that has an average of .260. Also, if he was really the most valuable player, how come the Indians sucked when we had Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, and Sizemore?

Skip Bayless is a tool. Anytime he disagrees with you is a reassurance. I don't see how anyone could watch any of Daisuke's starts and come out thinking he was Cy Young of anything.Here's the argument for Sizemore: Yes, the average is low, but as a lead-off hitter, his job is to get on base. He walks a LOT. His top-20 or so OBP more than makes up for a .260 average. Once he's on base, he's extremely dangerous. He steals a lot of bases without being caught too often and from the anecdotal reports and data I've seen, he may just be the best baserunner in the AL right now. His power is tasty. His defense spectacular. I think he was just under deserving of the gold glove last year, but this year he has earned it. Now when you take all this and stick it at a premium defensive position, you have an MVP-caliber player. As for the black marks you bring up, I'm not worried about 25 at-bats. Cold streaks happen to everyone. Pedroia was bad for the whole month of May. While Sizemore was not hitting, he probably was still playing excellent defense and when possible, ran those bases effectively...and maybe even picked up some walks along the way. As for the Indians sucking...you're probably in a better position to say given that you're an Indians fan and see them more often than me. I guess what I would say is that 3 players don't make a team (especially when only 1 is an everyday player).

[showstopper24 0]

Here's the argument for Sizemore: Yes, the average is low, but as a lead-off hitter, his job is to get on base. He walks a LOT. His top-20 or so OBP more than makes up for a .260 average. Once he's on base, he's extremely dangerous. He steals a lot of bases without being caught too often and from the anecdotal reports and data I've seen, he may just be the best baserunner in the AL right now. His power is tasty. His defense spectacular. I think he was just under deserving of the gold glove last year, but this year he has earned it. Now when you take all this and stick it at a premium defensive position, you have an MVP-caliber player. As for the black marks you bring up, I'm not worried about 25 at-bats. Cold streaks happen to everyone. Pedroia was bad for the whole month of May. While Sizemore was not hitting, he probably was still playing excellent defense and when possible, ran those bases effectively...and maybe even picked up some walks along the way. As for the Indians sucking...you're probably in a better position to say given that you're an Indians fan and see them more often than me. I guess what I would say is that 3 players don't make a team (especially when only 1 is an everyday player).

Good points...and today he began the game with striking out twice, but then h got three hits in a row, including two doubles. You wouldn't hear me complaining if he got the MVP, I just highly doubt it will happen. I actually don't kow/too lazy to look up the past MVPs, but don't they normally play for playoff/winning teams?

[MDXS 0]

Good points...and today he began the game with striking out twice, but then h got three hits in a row, including two doubles. You wouldn't hear me complaining if he got the MVP, I just highly doubt it will happen. I actually don't kow/too lazy to look up the past MVPs, but don't they normally play for playoff/winning teams?

Yeah, they do. ARod won it with the last place Rangers a few years ago, but he's the exception, not the rule. Playing for a contender is heavily weighted in the vote as well as performance down the stretch. That's why Morneau won in '06, why we're there's talk about Delgado this year, and why Pedroia stands as the front runner. He's hitting close to .400 with some pop since June 14th and a big reason why the Sox have been so successful after trading Manny.

[keith crime 8]

let manny and cc share the NL MVP since togther thats one sick season

[vonteego3 0]

Lincecum going away for the NL Cy Young. I don't like giving the MVP to a guy on a 4th place team, since they'd have finished 4th without Pujols as well, but his numbers blow everyone else away.lol @ any discussion of anyone other than Lee in the AL, so we'll move along to the MVP. Why no love for Morneau? .313/23/121/90/.908, compared to Pedroia's .327/17/78/112/.876, and Morneau did it with much less help. Even Josh Hamilton should get some consideration, being the centerpiece for the best offense in baseball and putting up numbers that blow most other guys away. If he hadn't gotten hurt, we'd have to talk Quentin, too.

[cwik 0]

timmy just locked it up.

[Moneyball16 0]

Why are the Giants letting Tim go 138 pitchers?

[TB17 0]

Why are the Giants letting Tim go 138 pitchers?

you should be happy fantasy wise

[Solodell 0]

Lincecum going away for the NL Cy Young. I don't like giving the MVP to a guy on a 4th place team, since they'd have finished 4th without Pujols as well, but his numbers blow everyone else away.lol @ any discussion of anyone other than Lee in the AL, so we'll move along to the MVP. Why no love for Morneau? .313/23/121/90/.908, compared to Pedroia's .327/17/78/112/.876, and Morneau did it with much less help. Even Josh Hamilton should get some consideration, being the centerpiece for the best offense in baseball and putting up numbers that blow most other guys away. If he hadn't gotten hurt, we'd have to talk Quentin, too.

Cards wouldn't have finished in 4th w/o Pujols. They only recently dropped there anyway, and previously were right there in the WC race all season (except for leading the division for several months early). Apparently Pujols isn't the MVP because the bullpen blew 30 saves. That makes sense.Cy Young for me is Lincecum/Lee as well. Haven't paid enough attention to AL to have an MVP thought. NL MVP for me is Pujols, although I know he'll lose it somehow. Maybe they can find a token Philly to give it to again.

[chgocubs99 0]

Cards wouldn't have finished in 4th w/o Pujols. They only recently dropped there anyway, and previously were right there in the WC race all season (except for leading the division for several months early). Apparently Pujols isn't the MVP because the bullpen blew 30 saves. That makes sense.Cy Young for me is Lincecum/Lee as well. Haven't paid enough attention to AL to have an MVP thought. NL MVP for me is Pujols, although I know he'll lose it somehow. Maybe they can find a token Philly to give it to again.

LOL Jimmy Rollins, I almost forgot about that one. Though Howard would have to be second in the voting, no?

[vonteego3 0]

Cards wouldn't have finished in 4th w/o Pujols. They only recently dropped there anyway, and previously were right there in the WC race all season (except for leading the division for several months early). Apparently Pujols isn't the MVP because the bullpen blew 30 saves. That makes sense.Cy Young for me is Lincecum/Lee as well. Haven't paid enough attention to AL to have an MVP thought. NL MVP for me is Pujols, although I know he'll lose it somehow. Maybe they can find a token Philly to give it to again.

Cards would have finished behind Cincy and Pittsburgh without Pujols? Probably not.

[cwik 0]

Why are the Giants letting Tim go 138 pitchers?

Bochy was criticized when he didn't let Lincecum go out in the 9th a few starts ago. Then he lets him go and he is criticized again. It is kinda a lose/lose situation. I mean, I know he is the Giants future, but he is also the only thing of the present too. Him getting the Cy Young gives the fans a reason to come to the ball park during these 'rebuilding years'. And even though he leads the majors in innings pitched, people have criticized him for not being able to go all the way. If they really wanted to take care of his arm, they'd make him ice his arm after games and stuff.