ajs510 122 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Not even close. Maybe since 1980 but the competition is pretty weak.Agree 100% Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 So it's ok for him to just sit out and make the team prove themselves to HIM and come back to lead them to the 9th place promised land on his own sweet time?Eff that eternally. He can be a poker ambassador for the rest of his life imo. Didn't like it when Niedermayer did it, don't like it now.I dont think thats what he was doing..I think he is honestly conflicted..He realizes that he just doesnt want to play for any other team.I think with the addition of Mats this team is actually a legitimate playoff contender...And the pundits and ill informed people who insist its bad to make the playoffs are just moronic. This team is head and shoulders better than La, Atlanta and Florida...They will not get a lottery pick, so why not make the playoffs, give the fans some excitement that we are craving and still build at the same time?Cue Gruven to come in and say..MATS ISNT COMING TO TORONTO Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Not even close. Maybe since 1980 but the competition is pretty weak.ok..who is better???Name a player that has given as many years of service at a more consistent pace than Mats Sundin???And honestly dont mention Johnny Bower and Eddie Shack or Tim Horton..*i met Bower and Shack the other night. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Agree 100%Players he is not better than off the top of my headRed KellySawchuk (he might have been a better Leaf than Sawchuk, though Sawchuk won a Vezina and a cup with Toronto)Frank MahovlichCharlie Conacher (probably the best Leaf ever, led the league in goals 5 effing times)Syl AppsKing ClancyJohnny BowerTim HortonTurk BrodaTed KennedyBusher JacksonDave Keon I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And honestly dont mention Johnny Bower and Eddie Shack or Tim Horton..Certainly not Shack.Why not mention Horton or Bower? Horton was the best defenseman on a stingy team that won 4 cups. He might have been the best open ice hitter of his time as well and pound for pound one of the toughest, certainly the strongest. Bower led the league in save % a number of times before it was kept as a statistic. If you ignore these players you become a Rangers fan who only acknowledge everything post 1994. Such as retiring Adam Graves' # before Bathgates. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Certainly not Shack.Why not mention Horton or Bower? Horton was the best defenseman on a stingy team that won 4 cups. He might have been the best open ice hitter of his time as well and pound for pound one of the toughest, certainly the strongest. Bower led the league in save % a number of times before it was kept as a statistic. If you ignore these players you become a Rangers fan who only acknowledge everything post 1994. Such as retiring Adam Graves' # before Bathgates.i am not ignoring them, but being a star in a 6 team league is a lot different. I hate when they bring up the fact that Maurice Richard won like 9 cups..big deal, there was only 6 teams...Plus I have never seen these people play and I can only comment on post 1980 players...Sundin has the most goals, assists and points in an era that was mostly played in the low scoring trap days. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 ok..who is better???Name a player that has given as many years of service at a more consistent pace than Mats Sundin???And honestly dont mention Johnny Bower and Eddie Shack or Tim Horton..*i met Bower and Shack the other night.If a large portion of your definition of better is # of years of service...then we will probably always have differing view points obviously. I'm not as impressed with captaining a team to mediocrity while never being the best at his position during any year of his career. Consistent .9 ppg is nice, but I sincerely doubt it qualifies him to be the best player in an O6's history. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 i am not ignoring them, but being a star in a 6 team league is a lot different. I hate when they bring up the fact that Maurice Richard won like 9 cups..big deal, there was only 6 teams...It was tougher to compete back then. You couldn't beat up on expansion teams. There were tons of guys in the minors ready to step in if you were out with a broken foot or whatnot. These guys played hurt every night out of fear. Jack Adams once said to Ted Lindsay that if he didn't play hurt one night that he'd have a guy in his place tomorrow. And that's Ted effing Lindsay man. It was tougher back then trust me. Imagine they took the best 25% of wherever you currently work or whatnot and the other 75% were in some other lesser job ready to pounce if one of the other guys faulted. Being the best in that 25% office would certainly mean more. There were no Peter Worrell's back then man. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Plus I have never seen these people play and I can only comment on post 1980 players...That's certainly fair and I prefaced it by saying I think he is definitely the best post-1980 Leaf. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but......I have a real problem stating that I think Gordie Howe is much better than Sydney Crosby, when I have never watched Gordie Howe play, or any more than a few games when he was 48. Unless you guys find old footage and actually sit down and watch the tapes, isn't your opinion really just based on someone else's? or only based on stats? Just to be clear, I'm saying I have a problem making the argument, not that I have a problem with others stating it. Your all entitled to your own opinion, but I prefer to base my own on what I see firsthand, not what I read. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Plus I have never seen these people play and I can only comment on post 1980 players...lol, a lot like what I argued before reading your point. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but......I have a real problem stating that I think Gordie Howe is much better than Sydney Crosby, when I have never watched Gordie Howe play, or any more than a few games when he was 48. Unless you guys find old footage and actually sit down and watch the tapes, isn't your opinion really just based on someone else's? or only based on stats? Just to be clear, I'm saying I have a problem making the argument, not that I have a problem with others stating it. Your all entitled to your own opinion, but I prefer to base my own on what I see firsthand, not what I read.I think it's more of a problem when you talk about defensive defensemen for example like Horton for instance. You can always use 1st team all-star selections, awards, peer quotes etc to try and surmise their level of play versus another players. With defensemen I usually like to watch the old footage. I collect O6 video footage and have a very strong catalog of full games from the 50's on up. Is the footage as great as watching current games where you can see every angle and exactly who failed to pick someone up, etc. Of course not. But we do the best with what we have. If you take Eddie Shore and put him in a game tonight is he going to succeed, of course not. Would Kyle Wellwood have his way with 1930's hockey if you magically transported him there right now, yep. But in order to do exercises like those I think you have to put a heavy weight on peer dominance regardless of era. You are never going to be able to do a straight compare even if you normalize the data but I think it's always fun to rank players regardless. If you didn't do this at all there wouldn't be all those fun lists to debate that pop up in the 100 greatest Canadiens types of books, etc. Dominance relative to their era is IMO the best way to compare across eras. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 i am not ignoring them, but being a star in a 6 team league is a lot different. I hate when they bring up the fact that Maurice Richard won like 9 cups..big deal, there was only 6 teams...Plus I have never seen these people play and I can only comment on post 1980 players...Sundin has the most goals, assists and points in an era that was mostly played in the low scoring trap days.Isn't that similar to saying that the guy who wins the WSOP Main Event is better than the guy who wins a smaller event just because he beat more players? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Isn't that similar to saying that the guy who wins the WSOP Main Event is better than the guy who wins a smaller event just because he beat more players?if he does it consistently yes.... Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 From a few days ago: Mats isn't even skating at this point. He's been working out in Anaheim, but won't even skate until the end of the month. He also still hasn't decided if he even wants to play this season so all this garbage about him being a bad captain and not wanting to play for the Leafs unless they have a shot is absurd. He doesn't even know if he wants to play at all. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 From a few days ago: Mats isn't even skating at this point. He's been working out in Anaheim, but won't even skate until the end of the month. He also still hasn't decided if he even wants to play this season so all this garbage about him being a bad captain and not wanting to play for the Leafs unless they have a shot is absurd. He doesn't even know if he wants to play at all.pretty weak how he keeps grabbing you in those pokerstars commercials...He outplayed you so bad...lolHere is a beatiful Sundin moment..Love it.. Link to post Share on other sites
fryer98 30 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 SUNDIN SELLS TORONTO HOME, REMAINS QUIET ON FUTUREThe former Toronto Maple Leafs captain put a For Sale sign on the front lawn of his swanky Toronto mansion in May of 2006, and more than 2½ years later, the place finally sold for $5.7-million.http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../TPStory/Sports Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 SUNDIN SELLS TORONTO HOME, REMAINS QUIET ON FUTUREThe former Toronto Maple Leafs captain put a For Sale sign on the front lawn of his swanky Toronto mansion in May of 2006, and more than 2½ years later, the place finally sold for $5.7-million.http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../TPStory/Sports This has been known for a long time..It has nothing to do with his decision to come back. Its been on the market for ever. Link to post Share on other sites
fryer98 30 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 This has been known for a long time..It has nothing to do with his decision to come back. Its been on the market for ever.Forever = 2.5 yearsGood to know, ha.I didn't post it to say say it meant anything, just saw the story and thought I'd share. I added the 2.5 years quote from the article to people didn't flip over the title. Just for you, serge. Just for you. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Forever = 2.5 yearsGood to know, ha.I didn't post it to say say it meant anything, just saw the story and thought I'd share. I added the 2.5 years quote from the article to people didn't flip over the title. Just for you, serge. Just for you. well, in fairness, 2.5yrs does equal forever in the Toronto housing market of 2006-2008. Link to post Share on other sites
Fubar The Sperm 1 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 One of the guys on The Team 1200 here in Ottawa brought up a good point. He had nothing to back it up but he thought if Burke comes to Toronto then Sundin's chances of coming back to Toronto are greater. Basically Burke has a clean slate with Sundin and can ask him to come back, Sundin will feel welcomed by the new GM instead of unwanted by some of the current Leafs management and play out his career there. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Rumour circulating is that Burke will bring Sundin with him.Of course i will preface the rumour being from Eklund. Link to post Share on other sites
coesillian 0 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think your overestimating Toronto's ability to attract free agents. Even if Burke is in Toronto, I doubt thats where the Sedin will choose to play. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think your overestimating Toronto's ability to attract free agents. Even if Burke is in Toronto, I doubt thats where the Sedin will choose to play.never mentioned SEDIN...I said Sundin..But Sedins would be welcome as well. Link to post Share on other sites
WestcoastCanuck 0 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 never mentioned SEDIN...I said Sundin..But Sedins would be welcome as well. I don't think it is far fetched that Burke would try to bring them in this summer. Link to post Share on other sites
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