Asimo 1 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'm in Vegas for the series. A buddy of mine says that if we play this table game "Texas Hold'em" he thinks we have an edge.For those of you that haven't played the game here's some info about it:http://poker.about.com/od/pokertablegames/...emtablegame.htmBasically, you have an ante bet and in order to see the flop you have to double the ante. If you're hand improves you can bet for the turn, and if after the turn you still like your hand you can bet for the river. If after seeing the flop you don't like your hand or it doesn't improve you can check it, and bet only after the turn, or you can check it all the way.The ante is only paid if you make a straight or better, but if you win the hand and don't make a straight or better you don't lose it.He is suggesting that we never play the bonus as this is the biggest edge for the house.So his thought is, if him and I (and possibly a third player) were to sit at the same table and show each other our cards and see every flop so long as we don't have really weak hands or so long as we are not sharing cards we should be able to win. We would each put up like $2K each and chop whatever we win or lose.He's saying that it's as if we were sitting at a regular poker table and you have a guy that is playing against both of us blind and this player is seeing every hand to river. If you're hand improves you can bet it and he calls. If your hand doesn't improve you can check it down and still win with high cards. It's hard enough for a blind hand to beat one player but over the long run that one blind player is not going to beat 2 or 3 players, right? Let's just say if I have Ace high and my buddy makes top pair. He can bet it the whole way and is a big favorite to beat a blind hand, if he wins and I lose collectively we push and at the same time my Ace high is a favorite over any blind hand and after seeing the flop I'm checking it down if I don't improve.So, again basically you are seeing your hole cards for 1 unit bet, seeing the flop for 2 unit bet and have the option to bet 1 unit after the flop and 1 unit after the turn.It's hard for me to understand where the house's edge is if my buddy and I play together and show us each other's hands.He said that he has played this game with another friend in the past and they are both up $4K after two sessions 3 hour sessions. Their average unit bet was $50.---------All of this might be a little confusing but, just think of it as if you are playing in a 3 handed game and it's you and your friend against this other player. We all three put in 3 bets pre-flop every hand. If your hand improves you can bet and the blind hand calls, if your hand doesn't improve you can check it down. How the hell is this third blind player going to have an edge over both of you??? Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 http://wizardofodds.com/texasholdembonus Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've never played the game, but the only thing I can 100% assure you of is you do not have an edge in this game. It may be slight, even 1%, but the house is not going to put any game in their casino that they know they mathematically they do not have an overall winning edge. Link to post Share on other sites
gfdsa146 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'll be honest, I didnt read the long explanation and just skipped to the summary at the end. Your summary of the strategy seems to check out but there's a bigger issue at hand. If your friend's system does work, the casino will KNOW that you're a winning player and are beating them. What happens to winning players? They get banned. Blacklisted. So unless you love Texas Hold'em The Table/Pit Game so much that you just absolutely have to play it, I don't think you should do it if you want to continue playing Texas Hold'em The Game of Skill Against Other Players at casinos. Link to post Share on other sites
Asimo 1 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I've never played the game, but the only thing I can 100% assure you of is you do not have an edge in this game. It may be slight, even 1%, but the house is not going to put any game in their casino that they know they mathematically do not have an overall winning edge.This is the same thing I said, but I just don't see it. Especially, if you are seeing each other's hole cards. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 This is the same thing I said, but I just don't see it. Especially, if you are seeing each other's hole cards.your signature is by far one of my favorites everrrr that doesn't involve scantily clad bouncing women Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I played the "Ultimate Texas Holdem" one this trip. I lost. I doubt it's beatable, but I think getting lucky on the bonus bets might be your only hope to win something short term. Obviously not long term, but I don't think getting even money all day long is going to do much damage.The one I played though, they allowed you to make bigger bets the earlier you decided to play the hand. If you played your hand vs the dealer preflop, you could bet 3x or 4x on the bet spot. If you saw the flop first, then you had to put 2x, and if you waited till the river then you could just bet 1x (aka a match to your ante.) It seemed to me that the way to actually cut the edge might be to make the bigger bet preflop when you had a better than average hand, because you're playing it heads up vs the dealer. (Q7 or better basically.) I didn't have the money to play this way, but I think that pretty much has to be right.I always do the bonuses though, cause really I'm just hoping to get lucky and run. Has yet to happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Asimo 1 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I played the "Ultimate Texas Holdem" one this trip. I lost. I doubt it's beatable, but I think getting lucky on the bonus bets might be your only hope to win something short term. Obviously not long term, but I don't think getting even money all day long is going to do much damage.The one I played though, they allowed you to make bigger bets the earlier you decided to play the hand. If you played your hand vs the dealer preflop, you could bet 3x or 4x on the bet spot. If you saw the flop first, then you had to put 2x, and if you waited till the river then you could just bet 1x (aka a match to your ante.) It seemed to me that the way to actually cut the edge might be to make the bigger bet preflop when you had a better than average hand, because you're playing it heads up vs the dealer. (Q7 or better basically.) I didn't have the money to play this way, but I think that pretty much has to be right.I always do the bonuses though, cause really I'm just hoping to get lucky and run. Has yet to happen.I think that if you were able to bet bigger pre-flop it'll probably be better for you as you can increase your bet when you know you are a favorite. If you don't hit the flop you can check it down and you may still be good.I think being able to see the other people's hole cards is a big advantage as well right? This is additional information that you can use.The bonus is a bad bet because you are not getting paid the correct odds when you do hit it. Link to post Share on other sites
BubbleBoy 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I played the "Ultimate Texas Holdem" one this trip. I lost. I doubt it's beatable, but I think getting lucky on the bonus bets might be your only hope to win something short term. Obviously not long term, but I don't think getting even money all day long is going to do much damage.The one I played though, they allowed you to make bigger bets the earlier you decided to play the hand. If you played your hand vs the dealer preflop, you could bet 3x or 4x on the bet spot. If you saw the flop first, then you had to put 2x, and if you waited till the river then you could just bet 1x (aka a match to your ante.) It seemed to me that the way to actually cut the edge might be to make the bigger bet preflop when you had a better than average hand, because you're playing it heads up vs the dealer. (Q7 or better basically.) I didn't have the money to play this way, but I think that pretty much has to be right.I always do the bonuses though, cause really I'm just hoping to get lucky and run. Has yet to happen. OMG where did you play Ultimate Texas Holdem at??????????????? I must know now. Link to post Share on other sites
daniel mahan 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 not to take away from the texas holdem table game discussion but i agree wit alan! asimo's sig is A++++ Current Sig Rankings IMO:1. Influcted's Gift to All forum Member2. Asimo's AA not sucking out on AQ aipf Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 OMG where did you play Ultimate Texas Holdem at??????????????? I must know now.looooool Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 OMG where did you play Ultimate Texas Holdem at??????????????? I must know now.LOLAt Planet Hollywood.Enjoy Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think that if you were able to bet bigger pre-flop it'll probably be better for you as you can increase your bet when you know you are a favorite. If you don't hit the flop you can check it down and you may still be good.I think being able to see the other people's hole cards is a big advantage as well right? This is additional information that you can use.The bonus is a bad bet because you are not getting paid the correct odds when you do hit it.The thing is, you only bet once. Either PF, Flop or Post River. Depending when you bet changes how much you can bet.You put down an Ante + Blind and then optional Bonus Bet. So for me, I was doing 5/5/5. Then the "Bet" spot determines if you're going to play against the dealer, but you get to decide when you want to make the bet. If you do it PF though, you can make it up to a 4x, so I could do a $20 bet. If I saw the flop first, then it's $10, and if you wait for all the cards, usually if I had K high or better I would put the $5 there hoping the dealer missed totally. Otherwise you just lose the original 15 you had out there.Hopefully that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 OMG where did you play Ultimate Texas Holdem at??????????????? I must know now.Palazzo too. GL CASE! Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 not to take away from the texas holdem table game discussion but i agree wit alan! asimo's sig is A++++ Current Sig Rankings IMO:1. Vick12' sig18274657607. Influcted's Gift to All forum Member21028384757688473. Asimo's AA not sucking out on AQ aipffyp Link to post Share on other sites
oldmangrimis 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 This is the same thing I said, but I just don't see it. Especially, if you are seeing each other's hole cards.I don't think they will allow you to see each other hole card. you cna t make a bet on the river and they don't pay ante bet until you get a str or flush Link to post Share on other sites
Asimo 1 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think they will allow you to see each other hole card. you cna t make a bet on the river and they don't pay ante bet until you get a str or flushMy friend said that they did this during their two sessions and the house did not say anything... Link to post Share on other sites
govikes 0 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 your signature is by far one of my favorites everrrr that doesn't involve scantily clad bouncing womenpretty sure i lol everytime i see it Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think they will allow you to see each other hole card. you cna t make a bet on the river and they don't pay ante bet until you get a str or flushThey don't care at all. In fact half the time the dealer asks to see it to help you decide what to do. Link to post Share on other sites
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