The Hi-lo(w) Content Thread

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

ummm I swear $2-4 L was just an experimentPokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is MP with 9 , A , 4 , 3 . UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) 4 , 4 , K (3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.Turn: (4.75 BB) 6 (3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.River: (7.75 BB) 4 (3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.Final Pot: 9.75 BBResults in white below: UTG has 8s 2s 3c 2c (High: full house, fours full of twos). Hero has 9c As 4s 3d (High: four of a kind, fours). Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

think I just made my name an oxymoron no? PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , A , 8 , T . 1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) 4 , T , T (5 players)Hero bets, BB calls, MP folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.Turn: (5.50 BB) J (3 players)Hero checks, BB folds, CO bets, Hero calls.River: (7.50 BB) 9 (2 players)Hero bets, CO calls.Final Pot: 9.50 BBResults in white below: Hero has 9h Ad 8h Th (High: full house, tens full of nines). CO has 4h 5c 4d 6s (High: full house, fours full of tens). Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB.

[jmbreslin 0]

So how have you adjusted your strategy, if at all, to the limit structure? If I recall correctly, Hwang advocates for a wider hand selection in FLO8 because you'll never have to face pot-sized bets to chase hands.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I don't think I've made any adjustment as far as the hand selection goes, but I do bet hands dif. You can be more aggresive with draws and not so timid with vulnerable hands as you don't have to worry about bloating the pot and getting pushed off on later streets. Also vice versa as in hitting the nut lo on the turn and check calling then pushing the pot when the board pairs on the end to rep the boat or flush if suit card etc. obv. doesn't work like it does in PL. I think hand selection has more to do with amount of players more than it does PL or FL imho and I've been at the 6 max for awhile

[jmbreslin 0]

I would imagine that FL play is more straightforward than PL because you can't rely on stealing moves with pot-sized bets (e.g., the PF raise followed by the pot-CB, or pot-betting a lock on one-half to try to bluff someone off the other half). Would it be fair to say that FLO8 is much more about value betting than PLO8?

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I would say that is a "fair" statement

[jmbreslin 0]

Not sure what the quotes and smiley emoticon are intended to convey, but maybe I should give FLO8 a try. It might be a better fit for my natural playing style than PLO8.

[Cappy37 0]

thought you'd like the step up Cappy. 6 max is so much more fun than full ring. People are much more creative and it's not just bet the nutz everytime over and over

I find it more fun to play full ring like it's 6max . It's fun to take money from people who think you *need* the nuts in full ring.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , A , 8 , T . 1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.CO has 4h 5c 4d 6s Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB.

I'd like to take the CO and stick his nose into those last two lines and demand he tell me why those two are related. Even in 6max, that's horrible.

[Cappy37 0]

So how have you adjusted your strategy, if at all, to the limit structure? If I recall correctly, Hwang advocates for a wider hand selection in FLO8 because you'll never have to face pot-sized bets to chase hands.

IN POSITION. Put that on a stick-it and place it above your monitor. I know I forget all the time lol. And when pots are multiway and players are playing correctly (big step of faith, i know) the betting and re-raising still makes chasing a rough task. It's far better to be drawing both high and low, because there's almost 0 implied odds. You want multiple ways to get a nice chunk of big pots, and scooping is just happiness personified. It's not pl where you can get a sneaky draw paid off on the end, so you really want to be the one either with a made high preventing draws, or drawing all over the place for both sides of the pot. Or you want to get it heads up and just bluff the hell out of someone/take someone married to AAxx to valuetown.

[Cappy37 0]

I would imagine that FL play is more straightforward than PL because you can't rely on stealing moves with pot-sized bets (e.g., the PF raise followed by the pot-CB, or pot-betting a lock on one-half to try to bluff someone off the other half). Would it be fair to say that FLO8 is much more about value betting than PLO8?

Easiest way to say it: picture a table full of nine people making that above statement, and get out the slide ruler and protracter and try and figure out the best way to take their money.

[antistuff 0]

Easiest way to say it: picture a table full of nine people making that above statement, and get out the slide ruler and protracter and try and figure out the best way to take their money.

you build a little device that just keeps hitting the bet and raise button over and over again while you go off and take a nap?(actually, i think the trick is to be aggressive on early streets to give the illusion of being a maniac while turning into a calling station on the turn and river).

[jmbreslin 0]

Tried .10-.20 FL tonight and got very annoyed when my nut low got counterfeited twice. When I looked at the HUD stats around the table they all looked virtually identical: VP of about 50% and PFR of 0. Talk about loose-passive.

[Cappy37 0]

you build a little device that just keeps hitting the bet and raise button over and over again while you go off and take a nap?(actually, i think the trick is to be aggressive on early streets to give the illusion of being a maniac while turning into a calling station on the turn and river).

Oh, I still only play 30% of the hands, depending on the situation around me and my read on the table. You can't go completely bat$#!r at a 10man table. And it's more of a "check behind" station, really, if I need to see a card.

Tried .10-.20 FL tonight and got very annoyed when my nut low got counterfeited twice. When I looked at the HUD stats around the table they all looked virtually identical: VP of about 50% and PFR of 0. Talk about loose-passive.

Wow. That brings back memories. I used to put up 3 or 4 tables of .25/.50 FL back when I started playing o8b, and my goodness those tables were passive and timid. Lots of scared money, amazingly enough.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Not sure what the quotes and smiley emoticon are intended to convey, but maybe I should give FLO8 a try. It might be a better fit for my natural playing style than PLO8.

It was my way of saying not sure if I totally agree with the statement, but I don't necessarily disagree with it either. When I was playing a lot of fixed limit b4 deciding to play micro PL an NL o8 tables I had ez success at .05-.10 and .10-.20 stakes then stalled out at .25-.50 and .50-1. I think because players were worse at the bottom of the small limits and as we went up players still wouldn't fold to raises preflop but seemed to be able to get away "better" later in the hands if that makes any sense. It seems as i went up in stakes and down to 6 max playing position, reraising preflop, and isolation moves in general just tend to work better. IMO FWIW

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

(actually, i think the trick is to be aggressive on early streets to give the illusion of being a maniac while turning into a calling station on the turn and river).

+1 this seems to be working well for me as well. you keep firing when you got it and people pay you off and when you don't people seem to slow down like they are almost afraid of u raising their bets and you can slow down right behind. I've been raising just about every hand I choose to play from UTG to the button preflop. (occasional in the blinds if there are a lot of folds to me)

[jmbreslin 0]

Okay, walk me through this...1) you raise a high % of the hands you play and bet/raise the flop, which gives people the impression that you're a maniac2) people become more willing to mix it up with you when they think you're raising a wide range3) because of your aggression people are more likely to check to you on later streets, which means you can check behind for free cards if you haven't hit yet4) when you do hit you can keep betting in position or go into check-call mode OOP to feign weaknessDoes that sum it up?

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Okay, walk me through this...1) you raise a high % of the hands you play and bet/raise the flop, which gives people the impression that you're a maniac2) people become more willing to mix it up with you when they think you're raising a wide range3) because of your aggression people are more likely to check to you on later streets, which means you can check behind for free cards if you haven't hit yet4) when you do hit you can keep betting in position or go into check-call mode OOP to feign weaknessDoes that sum it up?

yep sounds good to me

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

heads up I guess I'll raise bet bet and bet again PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is BB with A , 3 , Q , K . 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.Flop: (4 SB) J , 7 , K (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.Turn: (3 BB) 6 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.River: (5 BB) 8 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.Final Pot: 7 BBResults in white below: Hero has Ad 3c Qc Kc (Low: 8, 7, 6, 3, A | High: one pair, kings). SB has 7h Qh Qd 4d (High: one pair, queens). Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB.

[antistuff 0]

Okay, walk me through this...1) you raise a high % of the hands you play and bet/raise the flop, which gives people the impression that you're a maniac2) people become more willing to mix it up with you when they think you're raising a wide range3) because of your aggression people are more likely to check to you on later streets, which means you can check behind for free cards if you haven't hit yet4) when you do hit you can keep betting in position or go into check-call mode OOP to feign weaknessDoes that sum it up?

one more very important thing - when you check oop people will think that you are weaker than people usually are than when they check in that situation due to the fact that you are so aggressive so often. so on the turn try to checkraise the pot when bet/bet won't get all the money in. although i noticed last night that people are finally catching on that i do this a lot, so im gonna have to switch a little.

[jmbreslin 0]

Frig poker can be frustrating when the cards don`t come your way. Had 2 PLO8 tables open along with a .05-.10 FLO8 table and it was a session full of sets getting outdrawn, single-suited flops when I didn`t hold those suits, and nut lows getting quartered. That, and completely whiffing altogether. Not enjoying poker a whole lot these days.

[Cappy37 0]

Frig poker can be frustrating when the cards don`t come your way. Had 2 PLO8 tables open along with a .05-.10 FLO8 table and it was a session full of sets getting outdrawn, single-suited flops when I didn`t hold those suits, and nut lows getting quartered. That, and completely whiffing altogether. Not enjoying poker a whole lot these days.

Stop making sets in pots with big fields still in the hand, and playing hands that make weaker sets. Makes your life a lot easier.Do what I do: Fire up pokerstars. Load up 1/2 horse, 2/4 o8b, a ten cent 360 man nlhe turbo, a ten cent 240 man plo turbo, a 2.20 180 turbo, a 4.40, and then pop open a Corona. Good times. :)Above all, remember: it's a game. We try and make money at it, but it needs to be a bit fun. Thats why I'll duck out of Horse at times, because Stud hi and lhe are just stressfull to me if I'm not in the right frame of mind. Those ten cent turbos are an awesome way to blow off steam and giggle at the madness going on around it. It's quite theraputic.And breaking even having 6 different games/limits/formats going at once feels like winning the world series. It's all about perspective.Start a stake thread in general poker and make 10 people play the dollar razz mtt. Spread the pain. That was another trick I used to pull all the time to get off of tilt. Although staking used to be my biggest leak. so meh..

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Start a stake thread in general poker and make 10 people play the dollar razz mtt. Spread the pain. That was another trick I used to pull all the time to get off of tilt. Although staking used to be my biggest leak. so meh..

LMFAO! Awesome!

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Frig poker can be frustrating when the cards don`t come your way. Had 2 PLO8 tables open along with a .05-.10 FLO8 table and it was a session full of sets getting outdrawn, single-suited flops when I didn`t hold those suits, and nut lows getting quartered. That, and completely whiffing altogether. Not enjoying poker a whole lot these days.

hang in there jmbreslin. I was on a huge downswing when I first switched my $ from AP to Starz ended up losing almost half my roll and grinding for a couple of months just to get back close to even. Then cashed out half my roll and dropped limits. Now I've started going back up and have doubled my roll in the last 12 sessions so it comes back around. Just keep playing solid and +EV results will happen for you!

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I claim shenanigans!PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is SB with J , K , 3 , 4 . 2 folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls.Flop: (6 SB) Q , Q , A (3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets, Hero raises, BB folds, Button calls.Turn: (5 BB) 2 (2 players)Hero bets, Button folds.Final Pot: 5 BBResults in white below: No showdown. Hero wins 5 BB.

[jmbreslin 0]

hang in there jmbreslin. I was on a huge downswing when I first switched my $ from AP to Starz ended up losing almost half my roll and grinding for a couple of months just to get back close to even. Then cashed out half my roll and dropped limits. Now I've started going back up and have doubled my roll in the last 12 sessions so it comes back around. Just keep playing solid and +EV results will happen for you!

I know, I know, I just feel lost at the tables these days. I'm not even on a downswing, just one long 2.5 month sideways swing. Several times I've bounced back up to my highest bankroll point only to fall back again. Just can't break through. I decided last night to focus on O8 cash and nothing else, but it seems like such a damn waste of time to buy in for $20 on a few tables, play 1.5 hours, and lose $3. I have to keep reminding myself that this is a long term thing and I'm not in a rush.