The New Face of Poker(a funny little story)

[robby850 0]

Recently I played in the 300 Buy in NL holdem event at the Taj mahal. Sometimes things happen that make you scratch your head. I know we all have our stories but this is just something that I found very interesting. Anyway, here goes. the layout500+ entries, 250 or so left. avg stack 3000+. blinds 100 200. 9 players at my table .. I have 4100 chips. I am first to act with QQ . I raise to 600 from 1st pos. Man to my left looks at his hand, glances at his chips(we'll call him trembler)... pauses, begins to tremble...then raises to 1200. (sirens going off in my head "He has a MONSTER>i am dead". it then goes fold fold... player in 5th pos(call him antsy) .. looks then immediately goes ALL IN with 2100 chips. the button(call him happy) looks at his cards.. seems suprised but happy and pushes all in for 2700 or so. everyone folds to the BB(call him invested) who calls all in with the 1800 he had left. I look to my left and see the trembler getting his stack ready(still trembling). I fold the QQ... The man immediatley calls. Lets take an educated guess as to what these people have. There has to be a couple of AKs in the mix , right? maybe a JJ or a few KKs.. and definitely absolutley sure the trembler has AA. .. When I mucked my QQ i was patting myself on the back and thanking mike cairo for his book of tells.. "this game is too easy. Cairo is a genius"They flip over their cards. invested has 44trembler has Ad 9dAntsy has 66Happy has 66.WHAT?? i know you think its a typo. Unfortunately for these great books written by genius poker minds, they don't have a chapter for Player perception. The tells were there but the sad part is , the trembler probably thought he actually had a monster(after all it was sooooted!). Antsy and Happy actually acted as if they had the nuts. it is all about perception. They felt they had great hands so the tells appear. But since they are unclear as to what is a good hand what difference does it make... Oh by the way, the trembler took down the pot with the 9c hitting on the turn. Hope you enjoyed. look out for these new faces taking over the poker world. lolgood luck

[Guest XXEddie]

YOU SHOULDNT OF FOLDED!!!!! NO WAY DO YOU FOLD QUEENS PREFLOP..YOU DESERVED TO LOSE IF YOU FOLDED THEM

[BPV 0]

theres plenty of times to fold pocket queens pre-flop. From what ive read in a few posts you are maybe 16, you have a lot of things to learn. If he was playing with half decent players,you could only assume that at best at least one person had you completely crushed.

[shotdocta 0]

umm.. no.. i agree that it was a correct fold preflop and i'm glad to see that you had the discipline to do so

[bdluss 0]

I really hope that last comment was sarcasm, if not man do we have a whale of a fish on our hands.

[Polakplayer16 0]

There sure are some stupid people in this forum. If they hate your move then there idiots. I think it was a good laydown. There was either coin flip or dominated with all thoese people in the pot and you werent realy that invested in the pot anyhow. :roll:Im 16 by the way.

[bdluss 0]

Just to clarify my comment was directed towards xxeddie who advocated calling, easily the correct move was folding.

[360f1 0]

First of all, your fold shows that you are a good player. The poster who says go all in anytime you have QQ is obviously a novice. Nice play and, despite the facts, nice read. The only way you might call that is if you already know the players and the kind of hands they play.Second, I hope you used this new found information to take these players ' chips later in the tourney.

[CharlieBrody 0]

I fold in that spot as well, based on 'your reads'. The small reraise to 1200 usually indicates strength and the other guy all happy to push his chips in isn't a good sign. Most of the time you'll be super-hapy with your laydown.

[Guest XXEddie]

OK....i did not say to go all-in anytime, i'm just saying that it wasnt that right play, and to those of you who are saying he should of folded, look what hands you were up against...4 4, A 9, 6 6, and 6 6....apparently im an idoit because i said i would of called....WITH THE BEST HAND!!!

[bdluss 0]

Not to insult you, but yes a call there would be idiotic. In a 4 way all in there is almost no (this situation was very very rare) way you are even a slight favorite to win the hand. You have to assume at the best there is an ak, aq, j's and lets say 8's. Even by this slight miracle you are no more than 30% to win the hand. A muck of k's here is an easy muck. In a 5 way (assuming you would call) the vast majority of time you are looking at least at 1 overpair, if not 2, an ak and probably 1 underpair. It doesnt matter that this was the 5% time that he actually folded the best hand, in the long term this is by far an easy fold.

[jonnyhockey 0]

I once heard (or read, can't remember) DN say that in a hand, he's not looking for reasons to stay in a hand, he's looking for reasons to fold his hand. This situation offered many reasons to get the hell out, and you made the right move in doing so. As previously mentioned, I hope you schooled those guys later on in the tourney...

[Guest XXEddie]

The first person to raise, in which he raised a small amount was a sign of strength, but that strength could be AK suited J's or even 10's some one could of gonne all in with JJ, 10 10, 9 9 8 8 7 7 AJ, AQ, AK KQs KJs QJs, there are way more hands that you have beat than that have you beat, I would call, maybe you dont agree, thats fine, I apoligize for saying that it was stupid to fold. You guys can fold in that spot, I would call and, yeah, maybe I would run into KK or AA but thats poker, you can do what you want in that spot and I'll do what I want in that spot.

[bdluss 0]

Maybe run into aces or kings, more like an almost absolute certainity especially given the buy in. This wasnt some $20 buy in at the local dive bar, it was a $500 buy in which almost certainly guarantees a better group of players. Meaning that most of these players wouldnt even consider playing this big of a pot (especially with an early position raise and a reraise without at least a pair of jacks or better or ak). Even with the above situation of his q's vs a9, 2 pairs of 6's and a pair of 4's, he is still only 54% to win the hand. Obviously given his thought process he is a good enough player to avoid an essential coin flip situation this early in the tournament and wait for a better spot to get his $ into the pot.

[Guest XXEddie]

Maybe his was only 54% to win but the next closest player to win was the A 9 suited which was only 27% to win. Here is the full oddsQQ-53%66-Both about 1%44-18%A9-27%So your in pretty good shape. But like I said, do what you wanna do

[Kalf 0]

there is a somewhat famous hand written about by phil gordon. it seems applicable here: It happened at the 98 0r 97 (or sometime in the late 90s) at the WSOP main event very late (maybe even the final table) where Mike Matusow raised from an early position to 3X the big blind, and Phil Gordon reraised double that with KK from the button. Phil Hellmuth immediately pushed all in from the small blind. After whining and complaining for quite some time, Mike Matusow showed the crowd on the rail his hand (QQ), and mucked it. Then, Phil Gordon went into the tank for eternity, and mucked his KK. Hellmuth raked the pot after showing his AA, and Matusow and Gordon told him what they had. Of course, he bemoaned how unlucky he was to win so little with AA vs. KK vs. QQ.Perhaps that will give some insight to our friend who thinks its not wise to fold QQ when you get raised twice, with one all in.

[Guest XXEddie]

For the 100000000th time, you do what you wanna do, I'll do what I wanna do. I would call, and in that spot, I was right, but I know therye will be time when I run into AA or KK, so be it, I'll call you'll fold. I don't care what you say thats the way I play. Now, sometimes I might fold QQ, I've even had to consider calling all-in preflop with KK It just depends on the situation. Sometimes I'll hesitate to call with KK against one person, sometimes I'll instantly move in with QQ against 4 people it just depends. Now get of my back about how I play cards. You do what you want to do, I'll do what I want to do.

[jonnyhockey 0]

Eddie, these guys aren't poking fun at you, they're just putting their two cents in. We know, you'd call, that's fine, these other comments are just people sharing information pertaining to similar situations, you don't need to keep defending yourself, it's all good!

[Dane 0]

I would have to be pretty short stacked to make that call and Eddie, he might have been the favorite after the cards had been turned over, but 99 out of 100 times you would have to get lucky to win a hand like that, so unless you are potcomitted you should fold

[Tiburon41 0]

In poker, you can always second guess. Second guess how much you bet on the flop to dicourage the fish, second guess re-raising in situations. You have to trust your reads. Right or wrong, you need to trust your reads. I hear everybody mouthing off, "call!" "call!" and what some don't realize is that if one of those players flipped over KK or AA, you're heading home. If they represent strength and you have nothing else pointing the other way, trust your instinct or your read.

[TheIceman05 0]

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie...Calm down. No one's "getting on your back" or anything. You mouthed off like an ass, calling the initial poster stupid, backed up your claim with absolute nonsense, and then got upset with everyone else because they politely disagreed?Cool it, brother. And if you can't handle having your opinions disagreed with, don't make them known... in capital letters, no less.ice

[Metaphysician 0]

In a cash game, if there is an all-in and two calls(for significant m0ney) in front of me, I muck QQ every time. Jacks I'll muck for even less. And I'm right nearly every time at the limits I play. Of course, about 1 time in 10 or 20 I'm wrong, but that's no big deal because I saved my buy-in 9 times at the expense of failing to double or triple up once. Sounds like a good deal to me.

[milladathrilla33 0]

REmember he raised in first position obviously indicating a hand of strength. Then the players continured to re-raise him.. I would of folded to because if i raised in the worst possible position and others continually re-raised me i sure would of folded. I think he made the RIGHT play. Wonder what Daniel N. would of done.

[jomatty 0]

this situation is obviously player dependant. there are some players that i would never muck QQ under any circumstances and others that if they put in the third raise they hit the much before they get their chipsin the pot. what no one has pointed out is that our hero very well should have noticed that these players were likely to overplay mediocre hands and that makes the laydown terrible. if however this hand was an anomily or he had just sat down at the table folding is certainly a very reasonable play. you have to be willing to gamble some to win in a large field tourny and your getting a good price on your money. not good enough if your against AA but youll just have to use your best judgement and think about what THESE players are likely to have.matty

[dpianomn 0]

i agree with pretty much everyone else. given the situation, Q's are an easy laydown here. there's a lot to be said for going with your gut. dave.