rcooj_7 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 You tourney donks get your butts into the Outlast The Pro tourney that starts in 30 minutes. With the $100 last longer from Daniel it's a freeroll.nm, found it Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I think calling is the best option. Can't see what you get value out of by shoving and the only logical things that beat you are A7/AT. edit - yea QJcc makes sense and AT doesn't make much sense given flop action.I'd say a lot of his range should be busted draws. He limped preflop so he could have a lot of flush draws/straight draws on this board. The ace is a "scary" card so it's probably likely he'll bluff here to try to get you to fold Kx.i shoulda said he insta bet the river.. i showed a ton of strength, i dont think this is a busted draw. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was applying my thought process too much to villains hand range. Some people are dumb enough to c/c c/c donk a hand like a set or AK somehow. I think these people are usually stupid enough to ignore the fact you are repping strength and maybe play a hand like 56 this way.If you are sure there are no busted draws there, then it's probably very very close. If he can play sets that way can't be play KT + other worse 2 pair that way? Link to post Share on other sites
three eight offsuit 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 i wouldn't discount slowplayed 777 some of the time. Ive seen lots of people insta bet missed draws at thrse lrvelsid call and expect to win a decent %age with him showing up with 5c6c/5c8c type hands Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was applying my thought process too much to villains hand range. Some people are dumb enough to c/c c/c donk a hand like a set or AK somehow. I think these people are usually stupid enough to ignore the fact you are repping strength and maybe play a hand like 56 this way.If you are sure there are no busted draws there, then it's probably very very close. If he can play sets that way can't be play KT + other worse 2 pair that way?its a super small buy in, thats why im leaning towards him slowplaying and not being capable of bluffing a scare card.any thoughts on turn play? Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Never fold hereYou say your scared of him slowplaying, but he can also just be a normal donk and fire b/c he thinks you were on a draw...he is definitely capable of doing this with a missed draw...yea this is def a call Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Trueace and I must be calling stations because I'm snap calling this. We have 2 pair! Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Never fold hereYou say your scared of him slowplaying, but he can also just be a normal donk and fire b/c he thinks you were on a draw...he is definitely capable of doing this with a missed draw...yea this is def a callmeh i called and lost to his AK. its closer than 'Never' imo.fwiw it doesnt look like im on a draw to a random donkeys pov. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 meh i called and lost to his AK. its closer than 'Never' imo.fwiw it doesnt look like im on a draw to a random donkeys pov.no its not, don't worry that he actually had it this time...seriously his range is soooo wide that we should be ahead almost all the time...he had it this time, but this should never really be a thinking hand imo Link to post Share on other sites
three eight offsuit 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 played this hand on sunday in the 10r I consider the villain very laggy( in a good way)since he's come to table (maybe 3 orbits ago) he's been fairly active w/o much resistance as have I but haven't come up against each otherCan we think this hand thru from flop on. My impression of his flatting range is that it narrows the kind of hands he has here because its sunday he'll be playing lots of tables and won't be looking to get into too many post flops spots so i imagine his hand range is quite strong w/o NY rndom handsPokerStars Game #37277477471: Tournament #241010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (150/300) - 2009/12/27 23:14:28 WET [2009/12/27 18:14:28 ET]Table '241010647 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: cashmilo (5400 in chips) Seat 2: DreamerZgb (19895 in chips) Seat 3: M0sdef (26640 in chips) Seat 4: Adler66 (14620 in chips) Seat 5: FlushMan Dan (21002 in chips) Seat 6: COMANDO ZAZA (19675 in chips) Seat 7: apegod (6665 in chips) Seat 8: inhidonks (20160 in chips) Seat 9: SaschaJoe (11673 in chips) cashmilo: posts the ante 50DreamerZgb: posts the ante 50M0sdef: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts the ante 50FlushMan Dan: posts the ante 50COMANDO ZAZA: posts the ante 50apegod: posts the ante 50inhidonks: posts the ante 50SaschaJoe: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts small blind 150FlushMan Dan: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [As Ac]COMANDO ZAZA: folds apegod: folds inhidonks: raises 366 to 666SaschaJoe: folds cashmilo: folds DreamerZgb: folds M0sdef: folds Adler66: folds FlushMan Dan: raises 1551 to 2217inhidonks: calls 1551*** FLOP *** [3h Th Kh]FlushMan Dan: ?????Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 no its not, don't worry that he actually had it this time...seriously his range is soooo wide that we should be ahead almost all the time...he had it this time, but this should never really be a thinking hand imoi knew i should have folded actually, it was a gut reaction to a timing tell on the river. i think his range is wide enough certainly, but sometimes it just plays out in a way where you know somethings up. Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 played this hand on sunday in the 10r I consider the villain very laggy( in a good way)since he's come to table (maybe 3 orbits ago) he's been fairly active w/o much resistance as have I but haven't come up against each otherCan we think this hand thru from flop on. My impression of his flatting range is that it narrows the kind of hands he has here because its sunday he'll be playing lots of tables and won't be looking to get into too many post flops spots so i imagine his hand range is quite strong w/o NY rndom handsPokerStars Game #37277477471: Tournament #241010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (150/300) - 2009/12/27 23:14:28 WET [2009/12/27 18:14:28 ET]Table '241010647 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: cashmilo (5400 in chips) Seat 2: DreamerZgb (19895 in chips) Seat 3: M0sdef (26640 in chips) Seat 4: Adler66 (14620 in chips) Seat 5: FlushMan Dan (21002 in chips) Seat 6: COMANDO ZAZA (19675 in chips) Seat 7: apegod (6665 in chips) Seat 8: inhidonks (20160 in chips) Seat 9: SaschaJoe (11673 in chips) cashmilo: posts the ante 50DreamerZgb: posts the ante 50M0sdef: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts the ante 50FlushMan Dan: posts the ante 50COMANDO ZAZA: posts the ante 50apegod: posts the ante 50inhidonks: posts the ante 50SaschaJoe: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts small blind 150FlushMan Dan: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [As Ac]COMANDO ZAZA: folds apegod: folds inhidonks: raises 366 to 666SaschaJoe: folds cashmilo: folds DreamerZgb: folds M0sdef: folds Adler66: folds FlushMan Dan: raises 1551 to 2217inhidonks: calls 1551*** FLOP *** [3h Th Kh]FlushMan Dan: ?????Thoughts?im curious what people do here too. Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo41729 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 played this hand on sunday in the 10r I consider the villain very laggy( in a good way)since he's come to table (maybe 3 orbits ago) he's been fairly active w/o much resistance as have I but haven't come up against each otherCan we think this hand thru from flop on. My impression of his flatting range is that it narrows the kind of hands he has here because its sunday he'll be playing lots of tables and won't be looking to get into too many post flops spots so i imagine his hand range is quite strong w/o NY rndom handsPokerStars Game #37277477471: Tournament #241010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (150/300) - 2009/12/27 23:14:28 WET [2009/12/27 18:14:28 ET]Table '241010647 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: cashmilo (5400 in chips) Seat 2: DreamerZgb (19895 in chips) Seat 3: M0sdef (26640 in chips) Seat 4: Adler66 (14620 in chips) Seat 5: FlushMan Dan (21002 in chips) Seat 6: COMANDO ZAZA (19675 in chips) Seat 7: apegod (6665 in chips) Seat 8: inhidonks (20160 in chips) Seat 9: SaschaJoe (11673 in chips) cashmilo: posts the ante 50DreamerZgb: posts the ante 50M0sdef: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts the ante 50FlushMan Dan: posts the ante 50COMANDO ZAZA: posts the ante 50apegod: posts the ante 50inhidonks: posts the ante 50SaschaJoe: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts small blind 150FlushMan Dan: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [As Ac]COMANDO ZAZA: folds apegod: folds inhidonks: raises 366 to 666SaschaJoe: folds cashmilo: folds DreamerZgb: folds M0sdef: folds Adler66: folds FlushMan Dan: raises 1551 to 2217inhidonks: calls 1551*** FLOP *** [3h Th Kh]FlushMan Dan: ?????Thoughts?in my opinion raise more preflop. aces isn't really a hand i'm gettin away from post flop a ton and i dont want him to be able to bingo anything for 10% of his stack preflop no matter how good/bad he is. If he's calling a reraise pre with any pair that he isn't set mining he's putting you on exactly ace king anyway and not folding on 235 flop so you might as well bloat the pot. Or he might have king queen dying to call a reraise and go broke on queen high flop. I would've time banked pre for show and also to give him some time to overthink and then made it like 4k.as played i definately c-bet that flop. if he's that lagtarted he might have jack 9 clubs or somethin and you dont want him to peel a gutterball on turn after he checks behind. i fire like 2/3 the pot then after he shoves i throw up on the keyboard and probably fold. But i'm not any good so i dont know just offering another random opinion.I think a check/call then reevaluate turn is fine line too. if the worst card in history like the jack of hearts peels you can just check/fold if the board pairs 3's then u now beat king 10 and he probably isn't getting away. If a blank like 7 clubs comes i have no idea what to do so that's why i don't like this line. if you're a lot better than me you might have better read on his range. check/calling 3 streets if blanks peel probably isn't terrible. Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo41729 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 probly shoulda checked turn, as played fold river?PokerStars Game #37377691044: Tournament #225950795, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (60/120) - 2009/12/29 16:12:26 PT [2009/12/29 19:12:26 ET]Table '225950795 23' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: Phonebook23 (5094 in chips) Seat 2: tckid (2790 in chips) Seat 3: Producer86 (2778 in chips) Seat 4: trib13 (8170 in chips) Seat 5: sue noi (9350 in chips) Seat 6: BreakStuff84 (3951 in chips) Seat 7: callmegosu (5725 in chips) Seat 8: Naslund44 (8892 in chips) Seat 9: sal7777 (5495 in chips) Phonebook23: posts the ante 15tckid: posts the ante 15Producer86: posts the ante 15trib13: posts the ante 15sue noi: posts the ante 15BreakStuff84: posts the ante 15callmegosu: posts the ante 15Naslund44: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts small blind 60Phonebook23: posts big blind 120*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Naslund44 [Ac 4c]tckid: folds Producer86: folds trib13: calls 120sue noi: folds BreakStuff84: calls 120callmegosu: calls 120Naslund44: calls 120sal7777: calls 60Phonebook23: checks *** FLOP *** [Kc 7c 4s]sal7777: checks Phonebook23: checks trib13: checks BreakStuff84: checks callmegosu: checks Naslund44: bets 500sal7777: folds Phonebook23: folds trib13: calls 500BreakStuff84: folds callmegosu: folds *** TURN *** [Kc 7c 4s] [Td]trib13: checks Naslund44: bets 1120trib13: calls 1120*** RIVER *** [Kc 7c 4s Td] [As]trib13: bets 2400Naslund44:I would have checked turn. ur not exactly playing against geniuses. i mean this guy open limped ace king. ur bet on turn has basically no fold equity whatsoever. even the players in the $4.40's are smart enough to figure out someone might have a king in a pot limped 6 ways pre even if they do have jacks. so all you have left is ur showdown equity. you don't really want him to be able to check/raise u on the turn either if he did flop a set cause then u gotta laydown nut flush draw and who wants to do that?That river bet was pretty confusing to me too. it kind of looks like jack queen i dont really think he bets any lower missed flush draw here because you bet the turn. he might have a hand like king 10 or king 7 or trips he just wanted to see if a club was coming or not before he value bet. You're getting 2.7:1 on your call so you only need to be 26.97% to break even here. poker stove has u as 29% vs aa,kk,kto,kts,qjo,qjs,k7s,77,ako,aks so even tho u don't beat much still call. if he ever ever ever ever ever bluffs missed flush on the river which dan harrington says there's 10% chance he is no matter what it is snap call all day every day. Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo41729 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 i was wondering if i could get some input on a hand from PS 80k which i played horriblythe table is very loose and theres been a lot of squeezing pf. My image should be very tight as i haven't played a hand yetPf squeezer has already squeezed twice neither shown down. Pf raiser hasn't shown a hand down yet either but has been in a few potsPokerStars Game #29701356473: Tournament #173034078, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/06/23 20:23:38 WET [2009/06/23 15:23:38 ET]Table '173034078 197' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: Ice B (3340 in chips) Seat 3: tripscraven (2730 in chips) Seat 4: T$ddyPow$r (3260 in chips) Seat 5: plonker61 (3180 in chips) Seat 6: mysen2 (2430 in chips) Seat 7: xxxApachexx (3035 in chips) Seat 8: FlushMan Dan (2760 in chips) Seat 9: angellk1 (3265 in chips) tripscraven: posts small blind 15T$ddyPow$r: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [Kh Ac]plonker61: folds mysen2: folds xxxApachexx: raises 90 to 120FlushMan Dan: calls 120angellk1: calls 120Ice B: raises 360 to 480tripscraven: folds T$ddyPow$r: folds xxxApachexx: calls 360FlushMan Dan: calls 360angellk1: calls 360*** FLOP *** [Qc 9h As]xxxApachexx: checks FlushMan Dan: checks angellk1: checks Ice B: checks *** TURN *** [Qc 9h As] [Tc]xxxApachexx: checks FlushMan Dan: bets 930angellk1: folds Ice B: folds xxxApachexx: raises 930 to 1860FlushMan Dan has timed outFlushMan Dan: folds Uncalled bet (930) returned to xxxApachexxFlushMan Dan is sitting outxxxApachexx collected 3825 from potxxxApachexx: doesn't show hand FlushMan Dan has returned*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3825 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 9h As Tc]Seat 1: Ice B (button) folded on the TurnSeat 3: tripscraven (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 4: T$ddyPow$r (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: plonker61 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: mysen2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: xxxApachexx collected (3825)Seat 8: FlushMan Dan folded on the TurnSeat 9: angellk1 folded on the Turn contemplated a four bet shove would anyone take this line? and my turn bet is horrid cos i'm ahead of nothing that can call ie making it a bluffWould like to know how others would play it I know this might be super donk but I jam pre after the squeeze. if you can get me a pretty close squeeze/fold and squeeze/calling range i'll stove it, but you said the guy has already squeezed twice you really think he has ace king beat 3 times in a row? even if he calls with qq i think its better to go 50/50 with 5 cards to come with dead money in the middle as opposed to going post oop for 10% of stack without a made hand. he might even be ****tarted enough to call u with ace queen pre. if he has aces i just chalk it up to the donked tourney file and go on with life. i have no idea what to do on any street after the flop here. Link to post Share on other sites
kop00 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 played this hand on sunday in the 10r I consider the villain very laggy( in a good way)since he's come to table (maybe 3 orbits ago) he's been fairly active w/o much resistance as have I but haven't come up against each otherCan we think this hand thru from flop on. My impression of his flatting range is that it narrows the kind of hands he has here because its sunday he'll be playing lots of tables and won't be looking to get into too many post flops spots so i imagine his hand range is quite strong w/o NY rndom handsPokerStars Game #37277477471: Tournament #241010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (150/300) - 2009/12/27 23:14:28 WET [2009/12/27 18:14:28 ET]Table '241010647 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: cashmilo (5400 in chips) Seat 2: DreamerZgb (19895 in chips) Seat 3: M0sdef (26640 in chips) Seat 4: Adler66 (14620 in chips) Seat 5: FlushMan Dan (21002 in chips) Seat 6: COMANDO ZAZA (19675 in chips) Seat 7: apegod (6665 in chips) Seat 8: inhidonks (20160 in chips) Seat 9: SaschaJoe (11673 in chips) cashmilo: posts the ante 50DreamerZgb: posts the ante 50M0sdef: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts the ante 50FlushMan Dan: posts the ante 50COMANDO ZAZA: posts the ante 50apegod: posts the ante 50inhidonks: posts the ante 50SaschaJoe: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts small blind 150FlushMan Dan: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [As Ac]COMANDO ZAZA: folds apegod: folds inhidonks: raises 366 to 666SaschaJoe: folds cashmilo: folds DreamerZgb: folds M0sdef: folds Adler66: folds FlushMan Dan: raises 1551 to 2217inhidonks: calls 1551*** FLOP *** [3h Th Kh]FlushMan Dan: ?????Thoughts?This is a tough flop to play out of position. You will want to keep the pot small until you see the turn and river. Check. Ch/ca if he bets. If the turn is a blank, bet the pot. He'll call with a king, a made flush, and a flush draw with bad pot odds at an 11$ tournament. If the river is another blank, bet 1/3 the pot. If he repops you, then you are folding most of the time, unless you are committed.I had to write this twice. I might have forgotten to retype something the second time, but I think I got everything. Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo41729 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 This is a tough flop to play out of position. You will want to keep the pot small until you see the turn and river. Check. Ch/ca if he bets. If the turn is a blank, bet the pot. He'll call with a king, a made flush, and a flush draw with bad pot odds at an 11$ tournament. If the river is another blank, bet 1/3 the pot. If he repops you, then you are folding most of the time, unless you are committed.I had to write this twice. I might have forgotten to retype something the second time, but I think I got everything.I like this line a lot. check/call flop lead pot on turn if it blanks for the win here. Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo41729 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 i'm curious to know what ppl think about fireing double the pot in certain spots. durrrr does it a lot and it seems to work pretty well for him. i been doin it like 80% of the time with what is essentially the nuts and 20% of time on bluff. I do it 100% of time in spots where i think its a split pot. if needs more clarification i'll dig up some hand histories. Link to post Share on other sites
kop00 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 i'm curious to know what ppl think about fireing double the pot in certain spots. durrrr does it a lot and it seems to work pretty well for him. i been doin it like 80% of the time with what is essentially the nuts and 20% of time on bluff. I do it 100% of time in spots where i think its a split pot. if needs more clarification i'll dig up some hand histories.It works, as long as your image is very aggressive. If you continuously bet double the pot, they will eventually crack and call you. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 As part of a balanced overbetting strategy it is neccessary to have a %age of bluffs. If it's 2x pot my intution tells me it should be 33% though I may be wrong. However I don't think having a balanced strategy is at all important at all but the highest stakes and maybe not even there.When I overbet the pot it's quite often a lot less than the nuts and I rarely, if ever, do it as a bluff. I think the risk/reward is rarely good enough for a bluff although there are probably some good spots for it.You are risking 2 units to win 1 unit with what you perceive to be very little equity, assume you are drawing dead when called. For it to be break even you need to get folds 67% of the time I think.I think quite often other bet sizing can work just as well as a bluff and needs to work much less often.I quite often overbet the pot thinnish for value, say AK on a A7743 board and my opponent is repping AT-AQ which he won't want to fold.I think I really like the split pot idea. That's kinda sexy. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 played this hand on sunday in the 10r I consider the villain very laggy( in a good way)since he's come to table (maybe 3 orbits ago) he's been fairly active w/o much resistance as have I but haven't come up against each otherCan we think this hand thru from flop on. My impression of his flatting range is that it narrows the kind of hands he has here because its sunday he'll be playing lots of tables and won't be looking to get into too many post flops spots so i imagine his hand range is quite strong w/o NY rndom handsPokerStars Game #37277477471: Tournament #241010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (150/300) - 2009/12/27 23:14:28 WET [2009/12/27 18:14:28 ET]Table '241010647 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: cashmilo (5400 in chips) Seat 2: DreamerZgb (19895 in chips) Seat 3: M0sdef (26640 in chips) Seat 4: Adler66 (14620 in chips) Seat 5: FlushMan Dan (21002 in chips) Seat 6: COMANDO ZAZA (19675 in chips) Seat 7: apegod (6665 in chips) Seat 8: inhidonks (20160 in chips) Seat 9: SaschaJoe (11673 in chips) cashmilo: posts the ante 50DreamerZgb: posts the ante 50M0sdef: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts the ante 50FlushMan Dan: posts the ante 50COMANDO ZAZA: posts the ante 50apegod: posts the ante 50inhidonks: posts the ante 50SaschaJoe: posts the ante 50Adler66: posts small blind 150FlushMan Dan: posts big blind 300*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [As Ac]COMANDO ZAZA: folds apegod: folds inhidonks: raises 366 to 666SaschaJoe: folds cashmilo: folds DreamerZgb: folds M0sdef: folds Adler66: folds FlushMan Dan: raises 1551 to 2217inhidonks: calls 1551*** FLOP *** [3h Th Kh]FlushMan Dan: ?????Thoughts?Little piece of advice nnb gave me... Your problem comes pre tournament when you decided to register...open fold, unregister from the tournament so you will never want to kill yourself againGod tournaments are the devil Link to post Share on other sites
JustLikeNegs 1 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Little piece of advice nnb gave me... Your problem comes pre tournament when you decided to register...open fold, unregister from the tournament so you will never want to kill yourself againGod tournaments are the devilgtfo Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd bet/call off the aces. Inhidonks is a spazz IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd bet/call off the aces. Inhidonks is a spazz IIRC.I mean, if you don't take my advice, this is definitely the best way to go with the hand Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Tourney donks... And they don't convert their hands... sigh Link to post Share on other sites
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