Daniel And Obama

[hblask 1]

<br />Wow, pretty smug post. How about you reply to what I wrote instead of assuming I'm not taking any breaths as I, um, type....<br /><br />And if these are the brightest people on these boards...whoa! Do you feel a need to baby sit every conversation on these boards?<br />

Thank you for confirming my point.

[Kenny Banya 0]

Thank you for confirming my point.

And you proved mine...no one has dared to rebut what I wrote yet.

[hblask 1]

<br />And you proved mine...no one has dared to rebut what I wrote yet.<br />

I haven't discussed it because I can't tell what your point is. I think I agree with much of what you said; in fact, I think I agree with you more than I agree wtih Balloon Guy on the issue of Bush's competence, but it's difficult to figure out what you are talking about. So far, BG is pwning your butt in this discussion because he writes clearly and remains civil throughout. (Not to mention his famous sense of humor).PS: BG There, I did it, where's the cigar you promised?

[Kenny Banya 0]

I haven't discussed it because I can't tell what your point is. I think I agree with much of what you said; in fact, I think I agree with you more than I agree wtih Balloon Guy on the issue of Bush's competence, but it's difficult to figure out what you are talking about. So far, BG is pwning your butt in this discussion because he writes clearly and remains civil throughout. (Not to mention his famous sense of humor).PS: BG There, I did it, where's the cigar you promised?

"You are so 16 years old ""oops, learn the difference between debt and deficit" "If you add in future posible spending increases the debt is 2 brazzillion dollars" "Only by idiots"How is this being civil? He has been using insults well before me. He is winning? He says I should learn the difference between debt and deficit when I say the USA is 9 trillion in debt. This is a fact. I don't need to learn the difference. He is wrong. When you have deficit spending you got to borrow that money from somewhere! (unless you print the money whihc is worse) I said we are 70 trillion in debt if you add in entitlements. He argued that if you add all future possible spending increases the debt is "2 brazzillion dollars." Wait a second, who is talking about possible spending increases. I'm talking about entitlements, you know things like social security, government subsidies, government handouts to the poor/elderly/students/women/minorities. Does he not know the difference between budgetary entitlements and future spending increases?I think my post above proves the economy is bad. Would you agree?

[Loismustdie 0]

"You are so 16 years old ""oops, learn the difference between debt and deficit" "If you add in future posible spending increases the debt is 2 brazzillion dollars" "Only by idiots"How is this being civil? He has been using insults well before me. He is winning? He says I should learn the difference between debt and deficit when I say the USA is 9 trillion in debt. This is a fact. I don't need to learn the difference. He is wrong. When you have deficit spending you got to borrow that money from somewhere! (unless you print the money whihc is worse) I said we are 70 trillion in debt if you add in entitlements. He argued that if you add all future possible spending increases the debt is "2 brazzillion dollars." Wait a second, who is talking about possible spending increases. I'm talking about entitlements, you know things like social security, government subsidies, government handouts to the poor/elderly/students/women/minorities. Does he not know the difference between budgetary entitlements and future spending increases?I think my post above proves the economy is bad. Would you agree?

Oil has already dropped. It approaches 100, and then drops. That's called a resistance level. Gold is only 1000 dollars an ounce, or approaching that number, in commercials touting gold on AM radio. Now, it might, and if you feel that is the case, maybe some investing would be smart? How about some ETF's that invest in baskets of Gold? Etfconnect.com can help you there. Make that scenario work for you, instead of yelling on the sidelines. New unemployment numbers came out, unemployment is down. What was the new number, 4.7%? That's not bad at all. Everywhere I go signs tell me they are hiring. I don't get it. The news tells me all the time that we are in a reccession, but I don't see it- then, I look at my basic economics knowledge and I tell myself, "Wait, self. This is all wrong. A very basic rule of thumb is 6 months of zero or negative growth. We haven't even had one." The problem now is that you are buying the election hype vs. the actual truth, and BG is completely correct in saying that you have no idea until you are actually in it. Do I think a recession is possible? Yes. Do I think that is a bad thing? No. It's a cyclical thing, and I and others can make money on the downside as well. It's why we are not screaming in the streets, we have seen this before. It is not the end of the world. What goes up, must come down- sometimes little sayings like that are actually applicable to real life situations. Here is an interesting little tidbit for you, and then I will leave you be. Let's say you had tonka trucks, and other people had tonka trucks to, but all of those tonka trucks combined were finite at best. Nobody really knew how many tonka trucks were left, but they were certain, someday- no more tonka trucks. Wouldn't it make sense to buy someone elses tonka trucks? Keep your own for the day when tonka trucks were REALLY going for insane prices, than get in the tonka truck game? I of course am talking about oil, think about what we have in the US as far as completely untapped resources- and we are not even thinking about touching them!! How smart is that? A little clue...really smart. Crazy smart.

[Kenny Banya 0]

Oil has already dropped. It approaches 100, and then drops. That's called a resistance level. Gold is only 1000 dollars an ounce, or approaching that number, in commercials touting gold on AM radio. Now, it might, and if you feel that is the case, maybe some investing would be smart? How about some ETF's that invest in baskets of Gold? Etfconnect.com can help you there. Make that scenario work for you, instead of yelling on the sidelines. New unemployment numbers came out, unemployment is down. What was the new number, 4.7%? That's not bad at all. Everywhere I go signs tell me they are hiring. I don't get it. The news tells me all the time that we are in a reccession, but I don't see it- then, I look at my basic economics knowledge and I tell myself, "Wait, self. This is all wrong. A very basic rule of thumb is 6 months of zero or negative growth. We haven't even had one." The problem now is that you are buying the election hype vs. the actual truth, and BG is completely correct in saying that you have no idea until you are actually in it. Do I think a recession is possible? Yes. Do I think that is a bad thing? No. It's a cyclical thing, and I and others can make money on the downside as well. It's why we are not screaming in the streets, we have seen this before. It is not the end of the world. What goes up, must come down- sometimes little sayings like that are actually applicable to real life situations. Here is an interesting little tidbit for you, and then I will leave you be. Let's say you had tonka trucks, and other people had tonka trucks to, but all of those tonka trucks combined were finite at best. Nobody really knew how many tonka trucks were left, but they were certain, someday- no more tonka trucks. Wouldn't it make sense to buy someone elses tonka trucks? Keep your own for the day when tonka trucks were REALLY going for insane prices, than get in the tonka truck game? I of course am talking about oil, think about what we have in the US as far as completely untapped resources- and we are not even thinking about touching them!! How smart is that? A little clue...really smart. Crazy smart.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. But one last note: oil was $27 a barrel in 2003, gold was $240 in 2001...such a sharp increase is unsettling.

[Balloon guy 158]

"You are so 16 years old ""oops, learn the difference between debt and deficit" "If you add in future posible spending increases the debt is 2 brazzillion dollars" "Only by idiots"How is this being civil? He has been using insults well before me. He is winning? He says I should learn the difference between debt and deficit when I say the USA is 9 trillion in debt. This is a fact. I don't need to learn the difference. He is wrong. When you have deficit spending you got to borrow that money from somewhere! (unless you print the money whihc is worse) I said we are 70 trillion in debt if you add in entitlements. He argued that if you add all future possible spending increases the debt is "2 brazzillion dollars." Wait a second, who is talking about possible spending increases. I'm talking about entitlements, you know things like social security, government subsidies, government handouts to the poor/elderly/students/women/minorities. Does he not know the difference between budgetary entitlements and future spending increases?I think my post above proves the economy is bad. Would you agree?

The unemployement rate is currently: 4.9% 4% is considered total employment.The housing market is retracting, yet there are now more homeowners than in the history of the US. Some of them are going to get foreclosed on because they accepted bad loans. Lack of experience, or stupidity are the culprits, you want to take an adjustable loan that you can barely afford, don't cry when the rates go up. I for one am making a killing on the low interest rates right now, refinancing about $1mil in debt and saveing roughly $3K a month. As I free up more money I will swoop in and buy reduced rate property from people that are too stupid to have money. I will then complain of the taxes I have to pay on the money I make.You think you have me because Bush spent too much, but you ignored the good things I listed that Bush did. The begining of the whole arguement was that you wanted me to list some good thigns Bush did. I did, then you try to say the economy is bad. My favorite is that you point out record highs for oil and gold, then in the same sentance point out the dollar is weak. You don't see the coorelation there. The weak dollar is how the trade deficits are brought back around. Our goods will be cheaper to others, so they will begin buying from us. It's called a cycle for a reason, because it's not static. But whatever the causes, the government isn't going to help, they are only going to hurt the recovery. Either cut taxes and watch the private sector grow us out, or cut spending and wait for the private sector to readjust to the money flow changes from there being lesss government spending.And BTW the debt is now about $30K a person. I pay 3 times that a year in taxes. Shouldn't I get a rebate? I paid my part, when are you kids going to kick in your part? Shoot I've paid for dozens of people now, I need a lawyer.And lastly here is a story of the number 2 man for Al Qaeda meeting with Iraqis, before 9-11:Link to story

The CIA has confirmed, in interviews with detainees and informants it finds highly credible, that al Qaeda's Number 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, met with Iraqi intelligence in Baghdad in 1992 and 1998. More disturbing, according to an administration official familiar with briefings the CIA has given President Bush, the Agency has "irrefutable evidence" that the Iraqi regime paid Zawahiri $300,000 in 1998, around the time his Islamic Jihad was merging with al Qaeda.

I don't think Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, but to pretend they were mortal enemies that never talked is only wishful thinking of people that hate Bush first look at facts second.

[Balloon guy 158]

I haven't discussed it because I can't tell what your point is. I think I agree with much of what you said; in fact, I think I agree with you more than I agree wtih Balloon Guy on the issue of Bush's competence, but it's difficult to figure out what you are talking about. So far, BG is pwning your butt in this discussion because he writes clearly and remains civil throughout. (Not to mention his famous sense of humor).PS: BG There, I did it, where's the cigar you promised?

Henry, you come to the FCP golf tournment and I promise you will not lack for cigars all week.

[Balloon guy 158]

And for what it's worth.I really like Tonka TrucksAnd when did we stop backing our money with gold?

[Loismustdie 0]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. But one last note: oil was $27 a barrel in 2003, gold was $240 in 2001...such a sharp increase is unsettling.

This isn't an agree to disagree moment. Either you are wrong or right. This isn't a religous argument, there are actual facts and numbers to be talked about here. Use some, prove your position. Bigcharts.com. Gold has done this a few times before, look it up. Hell, google historic gold prices. I don't know about oil, I would have to look that up first, I do know that when it becomes absolutely unaffordable, whammo!! Supply is abundant again and it goes down.

[Loismustdie 0]

And for what it's worth.I really like Tonka Trucks

That's one of my favorite things to use for supply and demand with clients that need some hand holding.

[Loismustdie 0]

And for what it's worth.I really like Tonka TrucksAnd when did we stop backing our money with gold?

I think it was 1971? Google Gold standard.

[Balloon guy 158]

That's one of my favorite things to use for supply and demand with clients that need some hand holding.

When I was a union heavy equipment operator we used to all bring remote control loaders, dozers and trucks to the job and play with them during lunch. Which was funny cause we drove the largest equipment around, from D10s and 11s to 657s and 988 loaders.Men and their toys...

[Balloon guy 158]

I think it was 1971? Google Gold standard.

that was a joke, it really was 1917. Woodrow, a Democrat took us off the gold standard. Rightly so in my opinion.But the kid made a point of saying we might be confused about whether we klnew that someting happened about 50 years before we were born, I thought that was funny.If only we had landed on the moon. And not faked it in a sound stage in Burbank

[Mercury69 3]

They look alike.

[Loismustdie 0]

that was a joke, it really was 1917. Woodrow, a Democrat took us off the gold standard. Rightly so in my opinion.But the kid made a point of saying we might be confused about whether we klnew that someting happened about 50 years before we were born, I thought that was funny.If only we had landed on the moon. And not faked it in a sound stage in Burbank

We landed on the moon?

[Loismustdie 0]

They look alike.

All black people? Or oil and gold prices?

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Not sure why I'm adding a response...I like a civil debate and this one isn't anymore. However, in response to BG's response to me:I never said Chris Matthews leans right. I said he's a misogynist and has man-crushes. He can't handle Republican women in office either -- he can't ever seem to consider their policies, only their looks and dress. Is there something about misogyny and man-crushes that makes you think Republican? 'Cause I didn't say he was. [i ain't claiming him either; I think he's just a damn weirdo.]You concede that Bush has spent too much, but say Democrats will spend more still. Again, I remind you: Clinton and Gore didn't. They paid off the deficit they inherited, balanced the budget, and left office with a surplus. Clinton talked about balancing the budget again and restoring that surplus in the debate last night. Both Obama and Clinton have new spending plans, but they do talk about commitment to a balanced budget (spending less on the war will give them a lot more revenue to work with). Over the last two administrations (16 years' worth of experience) Democrats spent less and shrank the government, and Republicans spent more and expanded the government. It ain't pretty, and they both may be anomalies, but it's the truth.Democrats opposed Bush's plans for Social Security, but only the furthest left refused to concede that it needed any fixing at all (in fact, even Mother Jones admitted that it needed reform -- they interviewed me about it, and the reporter started out attacking the idea that it needed reform, but when I explained that I came to the issue as a leftist and explained what was wrong and what could be done, the reporter got it and the article wound up saying, "okay, we do know the system needs work."). I don't dispute that they fought Bush tooth and nail, but some of them had reform plans of their own.The plan you mention is partial privatization. The Cato Institute supports full privatization, and Bush's plan was to start partial, but eventually to fully privatize the system over several years. It's a really technical series of arguments probably not worth getting into here, but I think full privatization has a lot of inherent problems. The party-line Democratic approach was some changes to the earnings caps and retirement age. That would help fix the long-term funding issue, but they were essentially tinkering with a system that has profound problems. A core group of heretic Democrats and heretic Republicans (Charlie Stenholm, Jim Kolbe, Richard Lamm, Pete Peterson, Sam Beard, and the Urban Institute, among others, including me) favored partial privatization and a fundamental re-visiting of the demographic assumptions underlying the program.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

If only we had landed on the moon. And not faked it in a sound stage in Burbank

When I saw the moon lander at the Air and Space Museum, my first thought was, "No wonder people think it was a conspiracy!" Knobs -- the controls are all knobs. The thing looks so flimsy that I wouldn't believe it could get itself out of the building and to the street without bursting into flames and falling apart.My husband was playing with a toy belonging to a friend's toddler. It had a video display that showed the ABCs, numbers, simple words and pictures like "cat" and "dog," played children's tunes, and showing an animation of a train, all in LED. He commented, "You realize this $19.99 toy probably has more technology in it than went to the moon?" Just kind of astonishing.

[Nimue1995 1]

The unemployement rate is currently: 4.9% 4% is considered total employment.The housing market is retracting, yet there are now more homeowners than in the history of the US. Some of them are going to get foreclosed on because they accepted bad loans. Lack of experience, or stupidity are the culprits, you want to take an adjustable loan that you can barely afford, don't cry when the rates go up. I for one am making a killing on the low interest rates right now, refinancing about $1mil in debt and saveing roughly $3K a month. As I free up more money I will swoop in and buy reduced rate property from people that are too stupid to have money. I will then complain of the taxes I have to pay on the money I make.

Well Balloon Guy now I understand why you like Bush. You were one of those multimillionaires that the tax cuts gave so much to. LOL, should have known that you were writing with your own interests in mind. But that's a normal state of affairs. Just don't whine about how much getting rid of those tax cuts will hurt you,lol. I'm not in the least sympathetic to someone that can afford to refinance $1 mil in debt and save $3k a month on interest.

[Kenny Banya 0]

This isn't an agree to disagree moment. Either you are wrong or right. This isn't a religous argument, there are actual facts and numbers to be talked about here. Use some, prove your position. Bigcharts.com. Gold has done this a few times before, look it up. Hell, google historic gold prices. I don't know about oil, I would have to look that up first, I do know that when it becomes absolutely unaffordable, whammo!! Supply is abundant again and it goes down.

Relax...I don't even know what you're arguing here. I have backed up what I was saying. I ain't complaining about your low dollar...cheap vacations for me!

that was a joke, it really was 1917. Woodrow, a Democrat took us off the gold standard. Rightly so in my opinion.But the kid made a point of saying we might be confused about whether we klnew that someting happened about 50 years before we were born, I thought that was funny.If only we had landed on the moon. And not faked it in a sound stage in Burbank

It is either ironic you're wrong or typical. Probably a little of both because you are confused. The gold standard didn't end in 1917. Nor did a democrat take you off the gold standard, whatever that is worth. Nixon ended the gold standard in 1971 when the Breton Woods system collapsed...Just tally another "1" to "the kid"...

[Loismustdie 0]

Relax...I don't even know what you're arguing here. I have backed up what I was saying. I ain't complaining about your low dollar...cheap vacations for me!It is either ironic you're wrong or typical. Probably a little of both because you are confused. The gold standard didn't end in 1917. Nor did a democrat take you off the gold standard, whatever that is worth. Nixon ended the gold standard in 1971 when the Breton Woods system collapsed...Just tally another "1" to "the kid"...

Your both right and wrong to a certain extent. Nixon was the end game if you will. From wikepedia:Gold standard from peak to crisis (1901–1932)[edit] Abandoning the standard to fund the warThe British government ended the convertibility of Bank of England notes to gold in 1914 to fund military operations during World War I. By the end of the war Britain was on a series of fiat currency regulations, which monetized Postal Money Orders and Treasury Notes. The government later called these notes banknotes, which are different from US Treasury notes. The United States government took similar measures. After the war Germany, having lost much of its gold in reparations, could no longer coin gold "Reichsmarks" and moved to paper currency, although the Weimar Republic later introduced the "rentenmark" and later the gold-backed reichsmark in an effort to control hyperinflation.In the UK the pound was returned to the gold standard in 1925, by a somewhat reluctant Winston Churchill. Although a higher gold price and significant inflation had followed the WWI ending of the gold standard, Churchill returned to the standard at the pre-war gold price. For five years prior to 1925 the gold price was managed downward to the pre-war level, causing deflation throughout those countries of the British Empire and Commonwealth using the Pound Sterling. The British government abandoned the standard again on September 20, 1931. Sweden abandoned the gold standard in October 1931, the U.S. in 1933, and other nations were, to one degree or another, forced off the gold standard.

[Loismustdie 0]

Well Balloon Guy now I understand why you like Bush. You were one of those multimillionaires that the tax cuts gave so much to. LOL, should have known that you were writing with your own interests in mind. But that's a normal state of affairs. Just don't whine about how much getting rid of those tax cuts will hurt you,lol. I'm not in the least sympathetic to someone that can afford to refinance $1 mil in debt and save $3k a month on interest.

BG is great at this, but I think at this point he may just paste a lost cause sticky note on your forehead and walk away.

[Balloon guy 158]

Not sure why I'm adding a response...I like a civil debate and this one isn't anymore. However, in response to BG's response to me:Easy for this type of debate to turn ugly. I am a bit of a smart alek so I am sorry if I got silly.I never said Chris Matthews leans right. I said he's a misogynist and has man-crushes. He can't handle Republican women in office either -- he can't ever seem to consider their policies, only their looks and dress. Is there something about misogyny and man-crushes that makes you think Republican? 'Cause I didn't say he was. [i ain't claiming him either; I think he's just a damn weirdo.]Look anyone that doesn't like Chris matthew is alright with me. So we can agree that he is a wonker and leave him out of future debates.You concede that Bush has spent too much, but say Democrats will spend more still. Again, I remind you: Clinton and Gore didn't. They paid off the deficit they inherited, balanced the budget, and left office with a surplus. Clinton talked about balancing the budget again and restoring that surplus in the debate last night. Both Obama and Clinton have new spending plans, but they do talk about commitment to a balanced budget (spending less on the war will give them a lot more revenue to work with). Over the last two administrations (16 years' worth of experience) Democrats spent less and shrank the government, and Republicans spent more and expanded the government. It ain't pretty, and they both may be anomalies, but it's the truth.I agree Bush spent too much and unfortunately Clinton did get a balanced budget. I will concede to you this. Why it was balanced is an argument, but I will let you win this one cause I get bored easy with politics.Democrats opposed Bush's plans for Social Security, but only the furthest left refused to concede that it needed any fixing at all (in fact, even Mother Jones admitted that it needed reform -- they interviewed me about it, and the reporter started out attacking the idea that it needed reform, but when I explained that I came to the issue as a leftist and explained what was wrong and what could be done, the reporter got it and the article wound up saying, "okay, we do know the system needs work."). I don't dispute that they fought Bush tooth and nail, but some of them had reform plans of their own.Again, I heard bill, hilllary, Reed, Pelosi, well come to think of it, they are the far left so you are right again.The plan you mention is partial privatization. The Cato Institute supports full privatization, and Bush's plan was to start partial, but eventually to fully privatize the system over several years. It's a really technical series of arguments probably not worth getting into here, but I think full privatization has a lot of inherent problems. The party-line Democratic approach was some changes to the earnings caps and retirement age. That would help fix the long-term funding issue, but they were essentially tinkering with a system that has profound problems. A core group of heretic Democrats and heretic Republicans (Charlie Stenholm, Jim Kolbe, Richard Lamm, Pete Peterson, Sam Beard, and the Urban Institute, among others, including me) favored partial privatization and a fundamental re-visiting of the demographic assumptions underlying the program.

SS is not going to get fixed, because the left has maintained an atitude of keeping the older crowd afraid of repbulicans and neither side will let the other side get credit for fixing it. I will not need SS so I am much less educated as you, so I again bow to you here.But Bush is still a better pres than Algore or Kerry would have been, and his Supreme Court picks will carry his legacy forward for many years.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well Balloon Guy now I understand why you like Bush. You were one of those multimillionaires that the tax cuts gave so much to. LOL, should have known that you were writing with your own interests in mind. But that's a normal state of affairs. Just don't whine about how much getting rid of those tax cuts will hurt you,lol. I'm not in the least sympathetic to someone that can afford to refinance $1 mil in debt and save $3k a month on interest.

Tell me how taking more money away from someone that earns it is helpful to you or anyone who makes less.Unless you want the government to give it directly to you, you will only benefit by being able to say: 'Yea, get him."The attempt by Hillary to take away the profits from Big oil is a perfect example. The money they made came from your purchases, if the government takes it away, all they did was tax you through big oil and you feel this helps you how?Where big oil now will spend more on repairs, exploration jobs etc. The tax laws of this country already force companies to invest, which drives the economy. Taking that money out of the private sector only slows growth, it doesn't help you in anyway whatsoever.And I paid my dues for 15 years of getting by and working extra jobs to make my company successful, now that it is, I am suppose to feel guilty for living very modestly to make a succeful business that exploits employees 4 people? No government assistance helped me, in fact government intrusions prevents me from hiring two more employees full time.And do you have any idea what insurance on a Jag XK conv. is?