Daniel And Obama

[Balloon guy 158]

More on why Obama pwns Hillary hard:Let's take a closer look at who's really qualified and or who's really working for the good of all of us in the Senate. Obama or Clinton. Records of these two candidates should be scrutinized in order to make an informed decision. Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term - 6yrs. - and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law - 20 - twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.

Hillary Clinton has worked for 35 years for children.She told me.You also left how her year of doing pro bono work as legal council for the Black Panthers.She also voted for the war in Iraq...twiceShe also led the entire healthcare plan for her husband the entire time he was president. Of course we all see the advancements she accomplished there.She also headed up the bimbo eruption department during Bill's TWO successful campaigns for president.so you have left out a lot of things that makes Hillary an average democrat nominee.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I don’t need to look them up or do any research

Typical Republican attitude, young or old. I don't need facts, I've got Fox News.Even if a lot of Obama's bills were symbolic or ceremonial like Clinton's, the ones that got into law are substantial and impressive. McCain took the "inexperienced" line in an attack on Obama, and CNN pointed out that if that was the best he could do, it won't work in November. Clinton's been using it for weeks, and all she's doing is slipping further behind.BG, your list isn't as impressive. Half the stuff is a semi-joke (hot wife and daughters did exactly what good for the country?), and the other half is opinion. The Kyoto Accord would have wrecked the world's economy? Pure speculation. The tax cuts are a disaster. If they were so great for the economy, why is it tanking now, while they're still in effect? All they did was drive up the deficit -- you know, the one Bill Clinton and Al Gore wiped out and turned into a surplus, the one Bush pissed away and turned back into a monster deficit. Republicans say they want a balanced budget, but hate the last guy who actually did it, and excuse the guy who can't and won't do it. I'm a Democrat, and I want a balanced budget and a plan to pay down the national debt. I'm also under 40, and I'd like Social Security fixed. Those issues are important to me, because I'm going to pay the price in the future for boomers' profligacy today. The only thing good on your list is increased aid to Africa, and that's just an increase from jack to diddly. We could still be doing better, and I hope under Obama we will.

[Balloon guy 158]

BG, your list isn't as impressive. Half the stuff is a semi-joke (hot wife and daughters did exactly what good for the country?), and the other half is opinion. The Kyoto Accord would have wrecked the world's economy? Pure speculation. The tax cuts are a disaster. If they were so great for the economy, why is it tanking now, while they're still in effect? All they did was drive up the deficit -- you know, the one Bill Clinton and Al Gore wiped out and turned into a surplus, the one Bush pissed away and turned back into a monster deficit. Republicans say they want a balanced budget, but hate the last guy who actually did it, and excuse the guy who can't and won't do it. I'm a Democrat, and I want a balanced budget and a plan to pay down the national debt. I'm also under 40, and I'd like Social Security fixed. Those issues are important to me, because I'm going to pay the price in the future for boomers' profligacy today. The only thing good on your list is increased aid to Africa, and that's just an increase from jack to diddly. We could still be doing better, and I hope under Obama we will.

The Kyoto treaty required us to reduce all greenhouse emissions by 40% by 2010?What effect will the Kyoto Protocol have upon our country? A recent study by the Wharton Econometric Forecasting Association (WEFA, Inc.) projected that the U.S. would lose 2.4 million jobs and a $300 billion reduction in the U.S. Gross Domestic Product(GDP). Home energy costs would face a price increase 55 percent for electricity and 70 percent for home heating costs by 2010. Gasoline prices would increase almost 60 percent. Energy prices would double while wages go down! Luckily Bush tossed that piece of Algore garbage in the trash and we won't have to find out the hard way that Algore is an idiot.How are the tax cuts a disaster? I am amazed that anyone could ignore the recession we were heading into, then the 9-11 attacks and the damage to our economy and how it was stopped by the tax cuts. Is there no undertanding of how the economy works?Currently the top 50% of all tax payers pay 96.03% of all taxes. The top 5% pay 53.25% of all income tax. so 5% of wage earners pay over half of all taxes. How much more do you want them to pay? The top 1% of all wage earners get 17.5% of all income, but pay 34% of all taxes. I think the bottom 50% of all wage earners should shut the heck up and be grateful they only have to kick in more than 3.8% of all income taxes.Social security is not broken. The democrats clearly told us that last year when Bush tried to say it needed fixing. I can search the interweb and give you about 20 quotes from every single top democrat in the house and senate if you need me too.Bush has his share of screw ups, but my post was in response to asking me what he did right. To pretend he did nothing right is foolish.

[Balloon guy 158]

Typical Republican attitude, young or old. I don't need facts, I've got Fox News.

Side note, here's a piece from Hillary Clinton regarding Fox News

Hillary Admits Fox News Is FairTuesday, February 12, 2008 10:46 AMBy: Newsmax Staff In a surprising admission, Hillary Clinton says Fox News Channel has actually been fairer to her presidential campaign than liberal MSNBC.Clinton stated in an interview that aired on station WJLA in Washington, D.C., that her staff had delivered to her “some independent study” suggesting that “in terms of the fairness of the coverage,” Fox has treated her campaign more fairly than MSNBC.Clinton was responding to a question from politico.com’s John Harris about MSNBC’s David Shuster, who was suspended last week for saying that Hillary’s daughter Chelsea had been "pimped out" by the Clinton campaign by asking her to phone superdelegates on her mother's behalf.Clinton said: “I really am troubled by this pattern of behavior and comments that you hear on MSNBC.”Hillary has sent a letter to the president of NBC criticizing what she called a "troubling pattern of demeaning treatment" of her campaign by the network's cable arm.

[Loismustdie 0]

The Kyoto treaty required us to reduce all greenhouse emissions by 40% by 2010?What effect will the Kyoto Protocol have upon our country? A recent study by the Wharton Econometric Forecasting Association (WEFA, Inc.) projected that the U.S. would lose 2.4 million jobs and a $300 billion reduction in the U.S. Gross Domestic Product(GDP). Home energy costs would face a price increase 55 percent for electricity and 70 percent for home heating costs by 2010. Gasoline prices would increase almost 60 percent. Energy prices would double while wages go down! Luckily Bush tossed that piece of Algore garbage in the trash and we won't have to find out the hard way that Algore is an idiot.How are the tax cuts a disaster? I am amazed that anyone could ignore the recession we were heading into, then the 9-11 attacks and the damage to our economy and how it was stopped by the tax cuts. Is there no undertanding of how the economy works?Currently the top 50% of all tax payers pay 96.03% of all taxes. The top 5% pay 53.25% of all income tax. so 5% of wage earners pay over half of all taxes. How much more do you want them to pay? The top 1% of all wage earners get 17.5% of all income, but pay 34% of all taxes. I think the bottom 50% of all wage earners should shut the heck up and be grateful they only have to kick in more than 3.8% of all income taxes.Social security is not broken. The democrats clearly told us that last year when Bush tried to say it needed fixing. I can search the interweb and give you about 20 quotes from every single top democrat in the house and senate if you need me too.Bush has his share of screw ups, but my post was in response to asking me what he did right. To pretend he did nothing right is foolish.

Can't wait to see the response to this.

[Balloon guy 158]

Can't wait to see the response to this.

Side bet that it includes the phrase: "lied about WMDs" ?

[Loismustdie 0]

Side bet that it includes the phrase: "lied about WMDs" ?

Naw, if I wanted to lose at gambling I would just continue playing poker.

[Balloon guy 158]

Naw, if I wanted to lose at gambling I would just continue playing poker.

lol

[El Guapo 8]

better shot versus McCain

True.

- Against war from day 1

Why is this a good thing?

- Best choice to deal with enemies in talks

I disagree

- Will help alleviate world hate against America

Not gonna happen

- Prefer his stance on health care to Hillary's

Both stances are terrible

Inspires people to become more involved/ Great motivational speaker

He is a good speaker

- Best suited to cross party lines to get things done with Republicans

Why do people think this is a good thing? Bipartisanship means that two side comprised and usually get nothing accomplished

- Personal belief that the president is more of a figure head and decision maker than a secretary

I think most sane people think the same way

- He seems to keep church and state separate

So have most presidents in recent history

- He plays poker

Most Presdients have/doHe has experienced other cultures first hand, living in Kenya , Indonesia, and HawaiiI guess thats a good thing?Sponsoring 100 bills a year is not a good thing. We need less regulation not more.233 regarding healthcare reformThats scary.125 on poverty and public assistanceI'm gussing these are to increase funding 112 crime fighting bills,97 economic billsIn what capacity?60 human rights and anti-discrimination billsDo we really need more of these?21 ethics reform billsPolitical ethics?15 gun controlThat sucks.6 veterans affairs and many others.Again, what capacity? Can we gets a President who would like to repeal about 10,000 bills? How many bills do we need? The friggin tax code is so long that mnay things are left up to interpretation, but they never remove something, they just keep adding. This is what we are doing to our Bill of Rights, constituion, etc. Chop it back down and make it easier to understand.

[akoff 0]

Typical Republican attitude, young or old. I don't need facts, I've got Fox News.simple logic...it goes along way. It is simply not possible to take a counrty that has to many laws, ones that confict, over lap and off set each other. Then go and propose 2000 bills and think that most of them are new deep and or worth much. it just can't happen.As far as republican, well they just happen to be right much more often. I am as independent as it gets and won't follow anything I don't likeEven if a lot of Obama's bills were symbolic or ceremonial like Clinton's, the ones that got into law are substantial and impressive. McCain took the "inexperienced" line in an attack on Obama, and CNN pointed out that if that was the best he could do, it won't work in November. Clinton's been using it for weeks, and all she's doing is slipping further behind.CNN...and you make jokes about fox news...LOL

[Balloon guy 158]

And BTW, to prove your point, why don't you list some good things Bush has done over the years and I will entertain everyone by showing them how maybe you shouldn't be voting for the next 12 years. You cast stones, now back it up...

The silence is...deafeningBut dude, it's just politics, don't take it personal. I will tell you now that whichever person running today gets into office, the odds are they will screw us more than help us. Both sides. Don't let hatred of one side blind you to the evil of the other. I used too, but now I mistrust the republicans too much to trust them again. And NO I am not interested in the isolationist libretarian party.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Newsmax: aimed at "rich Republicans," according to its "advertise with us" page. No bias there, uh-uh, no sir. Wouldn't have any reason to be supporting Fox News. Plus, the whole point of Clinton's comments was that MSNBC has complete misogynists like Chris Matthews, whose man-crushes on big tough Republican men are well-documented (saying Bush looked "sexy" in his flight suit, etc.).Kyoto & the Wharton Analysis:

One study put out by the Wharton Econometrics Forecasting Associates (WEFA) predicted that US gross domestic product (GDP) would decline by 3.2% by the year 2010. WEFA's results arise from such dubious assumptions as: 1) renewable energy will be 27% slower to provide energy needed to fill the gap left from cutting fossil fuel combustion than it was when fossil fuel prices rose during the post-oil-embargo period 1973-1985, and 2) energy efficiency measures will also be implemented 43% slower than during the 1973-1985 period. This is all the more unreasonable considering the US had a decade to prepare for the final goals of the Kyoto Protocol, instead of being surprised by an OPEC-generated oil shock.It should also be pointed out that in the past, large-scale environmental interventions proved to be significantly cheaper than expected. For example, the cost of reducing SO2 continues to be lower than anticipated since the Clean Air Act Amendments were enacted to reduce acid rain. The cost of compliance was initially estimated at $400/ton to $1000/ton; however, during 2000, SO2 allowances ranged in price from $130/ton to $155/ton.

If you assume that we're 50% slower now than we were in the '70s, AND that the cost of cleaning up will be four to eight times what it actually is measured to be, well, then yeah, I guess you can assume economic disaster. Every other time we've invested in major new technologies like railroads, cars, and computers, we've reaped jobs and profits as a result. Investing in alternative fuels, cleaner technology, and renewable power has every potential to bring the same rewards. Unfortunately, the Wharton Group measured those potential benefits at $0 and 0 jobs for their analysis.So why is the economy tanking, with these magic tax cuts in place? They saved us all from sure doom and disaster when they were passed, you say, so how did they run out of their extra-special Bushie mojo?You sure slipped right past the balanced budget point. You don't care if there's a deficit, didn't want the surplus we used to have, don't want the national debt paid down, or is this one of the screw-ups you will attribute to Bush?Taxes are progressive. That means that those who have more pay more. Flat taxes are basically people taxes: one person, one rate, everyone the same. The current tax code is an income tax rather than a people tax: more income, higher bracket. You clearly don't like it, but it's living up to its definition. Not something I can change for you, nor do I have much desire to change it. The more I earn, the more I'm paying, but it doesn't make me want to earn less.Democrats know Social Security is broken. Bill Clinton probably understood it better than most politicians -- even people who had served on Social Security committees in Congress said he would invite them to the White House and ask what they thought of the Chilean retirement system, partial privatization, Pete Peterson's plan, the Kolbe-Stenholm Act, and points of the current system that they didn't even know themselves. The plan Bush floated of full privatization is one Democrats don't think is necessary. I disagree vehemently with those Democrats who say the system isn't broken. It certainly is. But there are better solutions than the one Bush wanted. [This is MY topic -- I used to work for a political non-profit and wrote a briefing paper for Congress on the Social Security system.]As for CNN (to akoff), so, are they wrong in saying that Clinton's "inexperienced" attack has not worked? I'm not quoting someone saying, "Clinton is a goddess! McCain is Satan!" I'm quoting an observation that seems to be demonstrably true. On the other hand...Charlie Reina is a former executive producer at Fox News. He was asked if there was ever a time when he was told to slant a story. He said, "I was assigned to do a special on the environment, some issue involving pollution. When my boss and I talked as to what this thing was all about, what they were looking for, he said to me: "You understand, you know, it's not going to come out the pro-environmental side." And I said, "It will come out however it comes out." And he said, "You can obviously give both sides, but just make sure that the pro-environmentalists don't get the last word." Fair and balanced? That's why people laugh at Fox News.I don't take politics personally either. The non-profit I worked for had a Kennedy kid on the board, and also a member of Youth for Reagan. In fact, the board had made a serious effort to be non-partisan. Conservatives called us liberal, and liberals called us conservative. I got used to working with both parties. I like one better, but there are dedicated people in both. I just don't think Bush has been the shining standard-bearer for anybody in the past eight years. I liked Republican politics better when they were guided by Ike, or Nelson Rockefeller.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

While we're talking about not taking politics pesonally, I do want to say that this kind of debate is exactly what politics should be about. Everybody here has facts and figures at their disposal, they can talk about the history and context of a bill or a program or a political position, and they have solid intellectual reasons for feeling the way they do. We aren't changing each others' minds, probably, but we're all passionate and informed. Have you ever read the "comments" attached to AOL or MSN or FOX news stories? Just a bunch of illiterates throwing insults at one another. Stories about Obama get appended with "white power" slogans, the most substantive comment about Hillary is "woof," and the direct personal insults to other posters are just as bad. Every time I click on a story to read it, I sigh and shake my head at the first few comments I can see. It's depressing. Disagreements aside, this is a very smart community of people, and I'm glad to have found it.Ideally, Democrats and Republicans could find the things they agree on and work together, but these days things are so polarized I'm not sure there are any. But if we can't quite live up to that high an ideal, at least we can all stay passionate about our beliefs and respectful of each other. [i used to think Social Security would be the thing that we could solve together, because the people most deeply involved in that issue covered the political spectrum, but on the greater stage of attack politics and sound bites, there's probably nothing we can work together on.]

[hblask 1]

And NO I am not interested in the isolationist libretarian party.

Odd that you would call the libertarian party "isolationist". They are the ONLY party that wants to engage other countries in peaceful, open trade.Who do we have the best relationships with? Our trading partners, right?Who do we have the worst relationships with? People we attack?So how, exactly, is the party that wants to stop attacking everyone and begin trading with them "isolationist"? Our military is the number one factor isolation us from the rest of the world.

[Kenny Banya 0]

The silence is...deafeningBut dude, it's just politics, don't take it personal. I will tell you now that whichever person running today gets into office, the odds are they will screw us more than help us. Both sides. Don't let hatred of one side blind you to the evil of the other. I used too, but now I mistrust the republicans too much to trust them again. And NO I am not interested in the isolationist libretarian party.

I didn't respond because I know you're not serious and it is a waste of time. "Hot wife and daughter"...like you want me to respond to this? You must have some pretty low standards BTW. The guy has destroyed the economy. Yeah those tax cuts were great...too bad spending INCREASED so now there is a 9 trillion (yes with a T) dollar debt. Guess who gets that burden...THE PEOPLE! The debt is around 70 trillion dollars if you add in future entitlements. I hope you enjoy paying for these. This is why I question Obama lovers. The guy doesn't even talk about the increasing debt. Why? Because he wants to increase spending and make government bigger. The economy is so weak and now everyone wants to give the government more services to look after like universal health care. When will you people learn that government can't make you a better person or give you everything you need!?GWB's war in Iraq was for NOTHING. 4,000 dead American with 20,000+ injured with at least 150,000 dead Iraqi civilians. Oh and your stupid point about getting Al Queda to attack your soldiers and not your civilians (which makes you a total pussy btw, if you think they are such a threat, go fight it), I cringe to think of all the future terrorists this war has created. Now my security is threatened even more because idiots don't understand what causes terrorism in the first place. GWB is widely believed as the worst President of all-time.If you don't think so because of the Iraq war or because of the failed economy, what about the loss a civil liberties that go directly against what the founding fathers believed. PATRIOT ACT I and II, Military Commissions act, the loss of Habeus Corpeus, an end to Posse Comitatus. Is he so great now? Or do you have to continue to support your "team?"And Libertarians are isolationists? HA! Look how isolated the USA is right now. Don't trade with numerous countries. Are hated by and hate numerous countries. Can't travel to some countries and bear the US flag for fear of violence. But yeah the Libertarians are isolationists because they don't believe in aggressive wars because they are the tool of dictators (ie. see Hitler). You probably believe McCain when he said it was US isolationism that caused Hitler to come to power. Keep believing that nonsense.We do agree that the next president will probably be hated more than Bush. Economy will get worse. They won't live up to their Iraq promises. They will start more wars with Pakistan and Iran most likely. I agree that the Kyoto stuff was okay. People should be more environmentally friendly, but I don't buy man made global warming. So we do agree on some things...

[Balloon guy 158]

Newsmax: aimed at "rich Republicans," according to its "advertise with us" page. No bias there, uh-uh, no sir. Wouldn't have any reason to be supporting Fox News. Plus, the whole point of Clinton's comments was that MSNBC has complete misogynists like Chris Matthews, whose man-crushes on big tough Republican men are well-documented (saying Bush looked "sexy" in his flight suit, etc.).I can promise you that you are the only person that thinks Chris Matthews leans right. You and maybe one other person in Florida, that's it.So why is the economy tanking, with these magic tax cuts in place? They saved us all from sure doom and disaster when they were passed, you say, so how did they run out of their extra-special Bushie mojo?I don't know? Katrina, Oil prices which are set by foriegn companies, dollar being devauled by other countries. Hard to say. But more tax cuts would help it. Or at least it has always worked, I guess there is a chance it wouldn't work this time.You sure slipped right past the balanced budget point. You don't care if there's a deficit, didn't want the surplus we used to have, don't want the national debt paid down, or is this one of the screw-ups you will attribute to Bush?Bush spent too much. I don't know any republican that isn't upset with Bush over this. But I would bet money that both your democrat wanna bes will spend even more.Taxes are progressive. That means that those who have more pay more. Flat taxes are basically people taxes: one person, one rate, everyone the same. The current tax code is an income tax rather than a people tax: more income, higher bracket. You clearly don't like it, but it's living up to its definition. Not something I can change for you, nor do I have much desire to change it. The more I earn, the more I'm paying, but it doesn't make me want to earn less.So by definition, if everyone gets a 1% tax cut, then those paying more get a larger dollar figure cut. It's progressive, those who pay more get more. So any tax cuts are going to favor the ones that pay more. So any tax cuts will help the rich right? When Bush gives away his rebate to buy lower income votes, I will get zero though.Democrats know Social Security is broken.Then they feel very comfortabl lying about it. When Bush 2 years ago began to attempt to 'fix' SS all he got were cries that it was fine. Bill Clinton probably understood it better than most politicians -- even people who had served on Social Security committees in Congress said he would invite them to the White House and ask what they thought of the Chilean retirement system, partial privatization, Pete Peterson's plan, the Kolbe-Stenholm Act, and points of the current system that they didn't even know themselves. The plan Bush floated of full privatization is one Democrats don't think is necessary. I disagree vehemently with those Democrats who say the system isn't broken. It certainly is. But there are better solutions than the one Bush wanted. [This is MY topic -- I used to work for a political non-profit and wrote a briefing paper for Congress on the Social Security system.]Full privatization? Only one I have ever heard had 5% private, 95 Government run. you must have the inside track to one they haven't revealed to the public yet.As for CNN (to akoff), so, are they wrong in saying that Clinton's "inexperienced" attack has not worked? I'm not quoting someone saying, "Clinton is a goddess! McCain is Satan!" I'm quoting an observation that seems to be demonstrably true. On the other hand...Charlie Reina is a former executive producer at Fox News. He was asked if there was ever a time when he was told to slant a story. He said, "I was assigned to do a special on the environment, some issue involving pollution. When my boss and I talked as to what this thing was all about, what they were looking for, he said to me: "You understand, you know, it's not going to come out the pro-environmental side." And I said, "It will come out however it comes out." And he said, "You can obviously give both sides, but just make sure that the pro-environmentalists don't get the last word." Fair and balanced? That's why people laugh at Fox News.I don't take politics personally either. The non-profit I worked for had a Kennedy kid on the board, and also a member of Youth for Reagan. In fact, the board had made a serious effort to be non-partisan. Conservatives called us liberal, and liberals called us conservative. I got used to working with both parties. I like one better, but there are dedicated people in both. I just don't think Bush has been the shining standard-bearer for anybody in the past eight years. I liked Republican politics better when they were guided by Ike, or Nelson Rockefeller.

I never claimed he was the standard, I only listed some positives because I was asked too. I also can tell you that most republicans are upset with him for spending too much, and giving into the democrats too much. Had he cut spending instead of raising it, we would not be in the budget deficit we are in now. The housing market downturn, the oil prices hike, the dollar devalue, The Katrina disaster, all these would still have happened, but the deficit would be lower.

[Loismustdie 0]

I didn't respond because I know you're not serious and it is a waste of time. "Hot wife and daughter"...like you want me to respond to this? You must have some pretty low standards BTW. The guy has destroyed the economy. Yeah those tax cuts were great...too bad spending INCREASED so now there is a 9 trillion (yes with a T) dollar debt. Guess who gets that burden...THE PEOPLE! The debt is around 70 trillion dollars if you add in future entitlements. I hope you enjoy paying for these. This is why I question Obama lovers. The guy doesn't even talk about the increasing debt. Why? Because he wants to increase spending and make government bigger. The economy is so weak and now everyone wants to give the government more services to look after like universal health care. When will you people learn that government can't make you a better person or give you everything you need!?GWB's war in Iraq was for NOTHING. 4,000 dead American with 20,000+ injured with at least 150,000 dead Iraqi civilians. Oh and your stupid point about getting Al Queda to attack your soldiers and not your civilians (which makes you a total pussy btw, if you think they are such a threat, go fight it), I cringe to think of all the future terrorists this war has created. Now my security is threatened even more because idiots don't understand what causes terrorism in the first place. GWB is widely believed as the worst President of all-time.If you don't think so because of the Iraq war or because of the failed economy, what about the loss a civil liberties that go directly against what the founding fathers believed. PATRIOT ACT I and II, Military Commissions act, the loss of Habeus Corpeus, an end to Posse Comitatus. Is he so great now? Or do you have to continue to support your "team?"And Libertarians are isolationists? HA! Look how isolated the USA is right now. Don't trade with numerous countries. Are hated by and hate numerous countries. Can't travel to some countries and bear the US flag for fear of violence. But yeah the Libertarians are isolationists because they don't believe in aggressive wars because they are the tool of dictators (ie. see Hitler). You probably believe McCain when he said it was US isolationism that caused Hitler to come to power. Keep believing that nonsense.We do agree that the next president will probably be hated more than Bush. Economy will get worse. They won't live up to their Iraq promises. They will start more wars with Pakistan and Iran most likely. I agree that the Kyoto stuff was okay. People should be more environmentally friendly, but I don't buy man made global warming. So we do agree on some things...

Why would you travel around with a flag in the first place? You realize that if we stay the course in Iraq- which we will when McCain wins- progress will continue to be made no matter how much you yell progress is not being made? This sort of change takes time. It may not even be complete for the next 40 years. Where is this failed economy? Where? Thousands of people frequent this board, I don't hear one saying they cannot find work. There are issues, yes, but failed? That's like saying a kid is a failure because clarinet lessons didn't work out. It's just not true. I don't have one friend not working. Maybe this is because I surround myself with driven, successful people, I don't know. The housing bubble was huge, and the fact that it was completely manufactured is disconcerting, but it's manageable by ANYONE. You just have to know when to fold em. I love that people were actually surprised when the bubble first. I and plenty of others, saw it coming from miles away. The point is, it's just one piece.

[Balloon guy 158]

I didn't respond because I know you're not serious and it is a waste of time. "Hot wife and daughter"...like you want me to respond to this? You must have some pretty low standards BTW. The guy has destroyed the economy. You are so 16 years old Yeah those tax cuts were great...too bad spending INCREASED so now there is a 9 trillion (yes with a T) dollar debt. oops, learn the difference between debt and deficit Guess who gets that burden...THE PEOPLE! The debt is around 70 trillion dollars if you add in future entitlements. If you add in future posible spending increases the debt is 2 brazzillion dollars I hope you enjoy paying for these. This is why I question Obama lovers. The guy doesn't even talk about the increasing debt. Why? Because he wants to increase spending and make government bigger. We agree here The economy is so weak and now everyone wants to give the government more services to look after like universal health care. When will you people learn that government can't make you a better person or give you everything you need!? We agree here alsoGWB's war in Iraq was for NOTHING. No more agreeing 4,000 dead American with 20,000+ injured with at least 150,000 dead Iraqi civilians. Oh and your stupid point about getting Al Queda to attack your soldiers and not your civilians (which makes you a total pussy btw, if you think they are such a threat, go fight it) Yea, cause wanting an armed trained military to fight our battels instead of a breifcase carrying women makes me a wimp???? If you want to call me names just call me names, cause your attempts at logic are really bad., I cringe to think of all the future terrorists this war has created. Now my security is threatened even more because idiots don't understand what causes terrorism in the first place. So it will be worse now that we've attacked them? Worse than 9-11? Wow, we better be pro-active then to make sure they don't get WMDs.GWB is widely believed as the worst President of all-time.Only by idiotsIf you don't think so because of the Iraq war or because of the failed economy, what about the loss a civil liberties that go directly against what the founding fathers believed. PATRIOT ACT I and II, Military Commissions act, the loss of Habeus Corpeus, an end to Posse Comitatus. Is he so great now? Or do you have to continue to support your "team?" I would love to argue here, but you have it in your mind that if we listen to a person's phone call when they are talking to a known terrorist overseas is the same as us losing our civil rights, than there is no hope for you. You are going to be shocked to know this, but the government has been listenign to all phone calls for decades now, thy listen for words like bomb kill president etc. DECADES.And Libertarians are isolationists? HA! Look how isolated the USA is right now. Don't trade with numerous countries. Are hated by and hate numerous countries. Can't travel to some countries and bear the US flag for fear of violence. But yeah the Libertarians are isolationists because they don't believe in aggressive wars because they are the tool of dictators (ie. see Hitler). You probably believe McCain when he said it was US isolationism that caused Hitler to come to power. Keep believing that nonsense.No Hitler came into power because of George Bush's foreign policies. If you want to wait till we are attacked before we do anything about it, fine, I want our military to be in their faces before they attack. It's just a difference of stances really.We do agree that the next president will probably be hated more than Bush. Economy will get worse. They won't live up to their Iraq promises. They will start more wars with Pakistan and Iran most likely. I agree that the Kyoto stuff was okay. People should be more environmentally friendly, but I don't buy man made global warming. So we do agree on some things...

Dude you have a seriously inane and naive understanding of the world. This is why young people should not vote. When you live through 3-4 economical cycles you get less excited. When you see dictators not following up on treaties, you stop worrying about people that think you are a bully. When you travel you will see that the world is not one big we hate America group. That story started in the Onion btw. Good source.My prescription for you: Listen to Rush Limbaugh for 3 months everyday. Quit school, mostly just teaching irrelavent stuff anyway, start a company. It is amazing how much more you understand about the economy when you are a real part of it.But we can drop this is you want, people get so upset when you argue politics, and since I am never wrong it makes them really mad at me. There's no reason we can't agree to disagree and move on making fun of Hillary.

[Nimue1995 1]

I agree with the Libertarians on a number of things including the war in Iraq, our choices about diplomacy and trade and the increasing loss of our civil liberties. But I also agree with the Democrats that we need to do something about health care in this country besides chanting the mantra of "free markets". It's rather funny that the ones that are for the free markets do seem to want some regulation of business though. Whenever we mention civil rights, child labor, environmental issues, they seem to back off from deregulating those things. But it was the conservatives that have always been for preserving the status quo. That included those laws that now apparently they acknowledge were good things. But they still have to be dragged into change kicking and screaming all the way about how it's going to be the end of everything and the "sky is falling" hysteria. I think it's the same way with health care. Eventually they'll look back and see that it was in the end a good thing for America because they will eventually understand what the hidden costs of the present system were.

[akoff 0]

My prescription for you: Listen to Rush Limbaugh for 3 months everyday. Quit school, mostly just teaching irrelavent stuff anyway, start a company. It is amazing how much more you understand about the economy when you are a real part of it.Best advise you are ever going to get.But we can drop this is you want, people get so upset when you argue politics, and since I am never wrong it makes them really mad at me. There's no reason we can't agree to disagree and move on making fun of Hillary.it helps pass the time

[hblask 1]

It's rather funny that the ones that are for the free markets do seem to want some regulation of business though. Whenever we mention civil rights, child labor, environmental issues, they seem to back off from deregulating those things.

It's extremely rare when I run into anyone who thinks that there is no place for government regulation anywhere in the world; those people are called anarachists, and they are even a fringe group among libertarians.Civil rights: all people should have equal rights under the law. Period. Think that through when it comes to civil rights laws.Child labor: Children are the responsibility of their parent, for the most part. If the parent is causing life-threatening harm or injuring the child, society may step in. I do find it odd that "working" is considered such a serious infraction of children's rights that we need to arrest people who would allow it. I grew up doing manual labor from the time I could life a bucket; I think I'm probably better off for it, because I understand how the world really works and what it really takes to get food on our tables.Environmental issues: Secondary harm due to human activities is a valid role for regulation because it affects innocent people -- those who have not voluntarily chosen to be involved in any transaction related to the pollution/noise/etc. It is important that it is dealt with in a scientific manner, and that a thorough cost-benefit analysis is done.So, if you ask me if I am in favor of deregulating those things, my answer is a resounding yes. If you look at what that means, there is still room for rules. But the basis of those rules are very simple: you may not lie or cheat; you may not harm others without their consent; children can't officially consent, so their parents are given the job of speaking for them.

[Kenny Banya 0]

Why would you travel around with a flag in the first place? You realize that if we stay the course in Iraq- which we will when McCain wins- progress will continue to be made no matter how much you yell progress is not being made? This sort of change takes time. It may not even be complete for the next 40 years. Where is this failed economy? Where? Thousands of people frequent this board, I don't hear one saying they cannot find work. There are issues, yes, but failed? That's like saying a kid is a failure because clarinet lessons didn't work out. It's just not true. I don't have one friend not working. Maybe this is because I surround myself with driven, successful people, I don't know. The housing bubble was huge, and the fact that it was completely manufactured is disconcerting, but it's manageable by ANYONE. You just have to know when to fold em. I love that people were actually surprised when the bubble first. I and plenty of others, saw it coming from miles away. The point is, it's just one piece.

Everyone travels with a small flag on their backpack or shirt...that is if you're proud enough to display it.Where is the failed economy?? Are you blind? Or just stupid? This is why it is impossible to debate here. So you really think that the people who can't find work/live in poverty or going to spend their time coming on to THIS message board to tell everyone they can't find work. You're that stupid? Really? So you're basically saying no one is out of work? No one is going to have their home closed because they can't afford to pay their bills? And your proof of this is that no one comes on to this message board and posts it. Man...Listen and learn. Oil is $100 a barrel. Gold is approaching $1,000 an oz. Both are record highs. The US Dollar is down to every major currency in the world. Prices in EVERY sector are going up. The housing bubble is about to burst causing thousands to lose their house. The Federal Reserve has slashed interest rates and printed BILLIONS to keep the stock market afloat. EVERYONE knows we are headed into a recession at best. I googled "US Economy" and look at the headlines on the first page:"The specter of stagflation looms over U.S. economy"http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/21/business/stag.php"Specter of stagflation returns to haunt U.S. economy"http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/21/news/prices.php"Fed slashes growth forecast for US economy"http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gyl0oA...l3ziJo5BWNWEdlg"U.S. Economy: Housing Slump Fails to Quell Inflation"http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home"US economic gauge weakens"http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ieuepQ...yhggoALNuEcsq1w"Key measurement of US economy falls for fourth straight month"http://news.monstersandcritics.com/busines..._straight_month"Yen Advances Against Dollar and Euro as U.S. Stocks Decline "http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...amp;refer=japan"US stocks retreat as economic fears mount"http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f3948c6-e0c3-11...00779fd2ac.html"Dollar drops on weak US economic data"http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8Cw60...U4v33AUgmehqK9Q"Japanese stocks lower on renewed fears about U.S. economy"http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...fDTXEGSfOMy50bAShall I continue? Your hubris is so laughable! Stagflation, inflation, dollar decline, falling stock prices, housing slump...but oh don't worry, everything is fine. Now you may be saying, yeah we were here in the 1930s, early 70s, early 80s. I may not have been born, but I sure do understand them more than you and ballon guy. Only now, the USA isn't the worlds leading creditor nation. In fact, it is the worlds leading DEBTOR nation. The USA is 9 trillion dollars in debt! It can't get by anymore by issuing credit. Not only that, but millions of manufacturing jobs that would stablize jobs and the economy are gone! They are overseas helping other economies. How are we going to get out of this one? Printing more money? I bet you think the dollar is still backed by gold. Oh its not? Printing money in the first place is what CAUSES these bubbles. By printing money it causes inflation and weakens the dollar. Too much credit was issued by printing money, causing HUGE amounts of debt that had to be distributed at sub-prime rates. Guess what caused the current housing crisis! Surprised? But I bet you and ballon guy still think I'm just some idiot kid who shouldn't vote, simply because I don't share your views. Care to rebut that this economy is still fine? Only has mere "issues" that need to be worked out. There are larger problems than not being able to play the clarinet.Could it also be that you share a similar vague definition of "success" to Iraq? Tell me what successes were made there? It has only futher helped bankrupt the US. Think of all the lives wasted, because you wanted to "get in the faces of Al Queda." Hate to tell you, but there was no Al Queda in Iraq before the US invasion. You really think you can bring democracy to Iraq? That's absurd! Who brought the USA its revoution? Australians? Mexicans? What about the French revolution? Russians? Chinese? You can't bring an ideology to another country. Ain't happening. All it does is make it look like YOUR the bad guys, even with your good intentions. Take 9/11. All you did was try to help in the Middle East. Then bam they thank you by destroying the towers and killing innocent civilians! They aren't grateful. They don't want anyone there.We are probably still not going to agree obviously, but all this you shouldn't vote stuff is just crap. Don't fool yourselves. The economy is bad! And sadly, like anything, it is going to get worse before it gets better...

[hblask 1]

a bunch of stuff

You may want to take a deep breath before you make any more posts. You are having a discussion (note: not an argument) with some of the brightest people on these boards (and I'm not saying that because I agree with everything they say, because I don't). I think I possibly agree with you on some of your points, but with all the name-calling, rambling, and hyperactive breathless text, it's pretty hard to tell.You want to know how to argue? Look at Checky's posts -- now that's intelligent arguing. (And I use him as an example because I seem to disagree with him on everything, lol)Here's a tip: pretend you are having this discussion in person with your girlfriend's parents the first time you meet them. Look over your posts in that context. Is this how you'd talk?

[El Guapo 8]

You may want to take a deep breath before you make any more posts. You are having a discussion (note: not an argument) with some of the brightest people on these boards (and I'm not saying that because I agree with everything they say, because I don't). I think I possibly agree with you on some of your points, but with all the name-calling, rambling, and hyperactive breathless text, it's pretty hard to tell.You want to know how to argue? Look at Checky's posts -- now that's intelligent arguing. (And I use him as an example because I seem to disagree with him on everything, lol)Here's a tip: pretend you are having this discussion in person with your girlfriend's parents the first time you meet them. Look over your posts in that context. Is this how you'd talk?

Thats good stuff. Some people just miss the point and think disagreeing or debating is arguing. It has taken me years to get my wife to understand that.

[Kenny Banya 0]

You may want to take a deep breath before you make any more posts. You are having a discussion (note: not an argument) with some of the brightest people on these boards (and I'm not saying that because I agree with everything they say, because I don't). I think I possibly agree with you on some of your points, but with all the name-calling, rambling, and hyperactive breathless text, it's pretty hard to tell.You want to know how to argue? Look at Checky's posts -- now that's intelligent arguing. (And I use him as an example because I seem to disagree with him on everything, lol)Here's a tip: pretend you are having this discussion in person with your girlfriend's parents the first time you meet them. Look over your posts in that context. Is this how you'd talk?

Wow, pretty smug post. How about you reply to what I wrote instead of assuming I'm not taking any breaths as I, um, type....And if these are the brightest people on these boards...whoa! Do you feel a need to baby sit every conversation on these boards?