timwakefield 68 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Oxford English Dictionary (OED), Second EditionHere is how the OED defines "atheism": atheism Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god. disbelieve 1. trans. Not to believe or credit; to refuse credence to: a. a statement or (alleged) fact: To reject the truth or reality of. deny 1. To contradict or gainsay (anything stated or alleged); to declare to be untrue or untenable, or not what it is stated to be. 2. Logic. The opposite of affirm; to assert the contradictory of (a proposition). 3. To refuse to admit the truth of (a doctrine or tenet); to reject as untrue or unfounded; the opposite of assert or maintain. 4. To refuse to recognize or acknowledge (a person or thing) as having a certain character or certain claims; to disown, disavow, repudiate, renounce.Sound like a little more than just the mere lack of Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc.Well that's a retardedly complicated definition. Good work leaving out their fairly important disclaimer right below #4. "Note that the OED definition covers the whole spectrum of atheist belief, from weak atheism (those who do not believe in or credit the existence of one or more gods) to strong atheism (those who assert the contrary position, that a god does not exist)." Try merriam-webster for a more concise and understandable definition.Main Entry: athe·ism Listen to the pronunciation of atheismPronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos godDate: 15461archaic : ungodliness, wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deityAnd like, you do realize that where you bolded things like "to reject the reality of," you are bolding the definition of the word "disbelieve," not the definition of the word "atheism." Likewise, below it is the definition of the word "deny." All of the words you bolded there are specific to the definition of the word "deny," and are wholly unrelated to the meaning of atheism. It's unclear to me why the OED decides that it needs to give you the definition of words within their definitions (like "deny" and "disbelieve"), but it's fairly stupid and confusing.MAJOR EDIT: It has come to my attention that your definition is not directly from the OED, but is from a website found here. I had google searched "OED atheism" and it brought me to that page and I didn't even bother to realize that I was not on the OED, I was on some jerk's website, and he decided it was important to define the words "disbelieve" and "deny" for us, as if we were six years old and did not understand the meaning of those words.Also, I edited that again. BigD I see you reading this, don't quote the part I just deleted where I confused 'secular' and 'non-secular,' cuz I'd look like an idiot. Wait...dammit! Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Nice to see you OG.Likewise Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The best you can do is believe what makes the most sense to you at the time. No need to find the definition of the word atheist because not every atheist thinks alike. That's the same with everyone really. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Also, I edited that again. BigD I see you reading this, don't quote the part I just deleted where I confused 'secular' and 'non-secular,' cuz I'd look like an idiot. Wait...dammit!I actually didn't read your post, and still haven't.. I just saw the "bigd" part, because I'm a narcissist, and after reading the words that surrounded it, I still don't want to read your post. No offense or anything, I'm sure it's good. I've just reached a saturation point with this kinda thing. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Naw, lets up the ante. You already know about that scripture, you know the bible as well as I do. Lets show the boys the scripture that describes the sinners prayer. Good luck. I never said anything about a "sinner's prayer"... but how does this verse work without prayer:I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I actually didn't read your post, and still haven't.. I just saw the "bigd" part, because I'm a narcissist, and after reading the words that surrounded it, I still don't want to read your post. No offense or anything, I'm sure it's good. I've just reached a saturation point with this kinda thing.None taken, I kind of have also. Months or even years from now you might accidentally go back and read it and it will be like a treat that you've saved for yourself, like a chocolate for example. Link to post Share on other sites
xfrodobagginsx 0 Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 I realize that people don't like to be called "sinners" but if you look inside your own heart you will know that you are not perfect. I know I am not perfect. I am not pointing my finger at you. I am trying to warn you that you need Jesus. If we could go to heaven by being a good person, then Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing. He came because we couldn't save ourselves. Here is that hard part for most people: In order to be saved, we must humble ourselves before God and admit that we are sinners and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The prayer at the bottom of this first post does this if you pray it from your heart to God. Please do that. I am not judging you, I am telling you what the bible says you must do to be saved, that's all. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I realize that people don't like to be called "sinners" but if you look inside your own heart you will know that you are not perfect. I know I am not perfect. I am not pointing my finger at you. I am trying to warn you that you need Jesus. If we could go to heaven by being a good person, then Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing. He came because we couldn't save ourselves. Here is that hard part for most people: In order to be saved, we must humble ourselves before God and admit that we are sinners and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The prayer at the bottom of this first post does this if you pray it from your heart to God. Please do that. I am not judging you, I am telling you what the bible says you must do to be saved, that's all.How about you shut the fuck up already. We're trying to have a discussion here, we don't need you churping up with bullshit like this. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I never said anything about a "sinner's prayer"... but how does this verse work without prayer:I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." It wouldn't. The next logical question is, who was he talking to? And, when I say who, I mean, saved or unsaved? Letter to a church or random entity? It matters. Think of it like if I was sitting with a bunch of scientists and they said, "Well, look, write this paper for this magazine and you are guaranteed to get this grant. Hey, by the way, who do you work for?" and when I answer "Schlagles bagels" they would say "Well, not you, but any of these other guys." What I am trying to say is some things apply to the "saved" that apply to literally no one else, so it's silly to quote scripture directly spoken to those who are already "in the fold" when trying to make a point about those who are not. The author is under the assumption that the persons listening have already taken certain steps, and the unsaved clearly have not. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I realize that people don't like to be called "sinners" but if you look inside your own heart you will know that you are not perfect. I know I am not perfect. I am not pointing my finger at you. I am trying to warn you that you need Jesus. If we could go to heaven by being a good person, then Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing. He came because we couldn't save ourselves. Here is that hard part for most people: In order to be saved, we must humble ourselves before God and admit that we are sinners and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The prayer at the bottom of this first post does this if you pray it from your heart to God. Please do that. I am not judging you, I am telling you what the bible says you must do to be saved, that's all. Sweet. Now, show me where that sinners prayer is in the scriptures. Hint: There is a reason they hand you a pamphlet and not a Bible for that. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sweet. Now, show me where that sinners prayer is in the scriptures. Hint: There is a reason they hand you a pamphlet and not a Bible for that.LOL @ you for trying to engage a spammer in debate. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 LOL @ you for trying to engage a spammer in debate.To be fair, both sides of that debate will be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 To be fair, both sides of that debate will be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I realize that people don't like to be called "sinners" but if you look inside your own heart you will know that you are not perfect. I know I am not perfect. I am not pointing my finger at you. I am trying to warn you that you need Jesus. If we could go to heaven by being a good person, then Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing. He came because we couldn't save ourselves. Here is that hard part for most people: In order to be saved, we must humble ourselves before God and admit that we are sinners and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The prayer at the bottom of this first post does this if you pray it from your heart to God. Please do that. I am not judging you, I am telling you what the bible says you must do to be saved, that's all.Real humility is in knowing that you do not know. Recognize that when you say "I know I am not perfect" that this also must apply to your ability to discern true from false. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 To be fair, both sides of that debate will be wrong. So far you aren't looking to good in that battle Kemosabe. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Real humility is in knowing that you do not know. Recognize that when you say "I know I am not perfect" that this also must apply to your ability to discern true from false. Horrifyingly blase cop out. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Horrifyingly blase cop out.how so? cop out from what? I dont understand. I find hypocrisy in the absolute certainty with which (some) religious people request "humility". Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 how so? cop out from what? I dont understand. I find hypocrisy in the absolute certainty with which (some) religious people request "humility". Actually, it's a reflection of arrogance on your part. You do not know, therefore you assume that no one else can. Finding hypocrisy in it doesn't mean there is actual hypocrisy- it just gives you a reason. Sort of like dating- everything is going great, and then you find she has hammertime in her shoes and it's over. Hammertime didn't really bother you, it was just an excuse. I would be surprised if anybody got that movie reference. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Actually, it's a reflection of arrogance on your part. You do not know, therefore you assume that no one else can.This is a wonderful point. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Actually, it's a reflection of arrogance on your part. You do not know, therefore you assume that no one else can. Finding hypocrisy in it doesn't mean there is actual hypocrisy- it just gives you a reason. Sort of like dating- everything is going great, and then you find she has hammertime in her shoes and it's over. Hammertime didn't really bother you, it was just an excuse. I would be surprised if anybody got that movie reference.Oh, I see what you are saying. No, I don't think my statement that no one can know about certain things is a generalization from my own not-knowing -- nor is it an "assumption". It's a deduction from what we know about knowing. (There are plenty of things I do not know about, but I'm pretty sure other people do. This is a different issue entirely)Also, it seems pretty clear to me that certainty does not correlate with correctness in humans. That should be clear to you as well, since much of the world is certain in their beliefs which contradict yours (e.g. other religions). Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Actually, it's a reflection of arrogance on your part. You do not know, therefore you assume that no one else can.lolThis is a wonderful point.You know I like you, but again, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 This is a wonderful point.no it isnt. Link to post Share on other sites
rjkdb8 1 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Real humility is in knowing that you do not know. Recognize that when you say "I know I am not perfect" that this also must apply to your ability to discern true from false. Link to post Share on other sites
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