Mitchell Report

[aadams_22 3]

Eric Gagne and Donnelly were on the Sox last year. The following are all related to the Sox:Manny AlexanderMike SpinelliPaxton CrawfordJeremy GiambiJosias ManzanilloRoger ClemensMo VaughnChris DonnelsMike LansingKent MerckerMike StantonEric Gagne Brendon DonnellySteve WoodardSo what's evidence do you have to back up that Mitchell isn't turning over Red Sox players (you know, besides the ones he named...)? I'm guessing the same amount of evidence you use to back up almost all your opinions.Like I said earlier in this thread, given the sources you wouldn't expect to see any Red Sox. What evidence do you have that his integrity is compromised?

Every single one of those players have something in common, none of them were members of the Red Sox while the investigation was in it's information gathering stage. Once the players are gone from the Red Sox he doesn't care if he turns them in or not as they are not the Red Sox problem anymore. I have questions about Manny and David Ortiz as they both have gotten un-proportionately bigger as their careers have gone on. Yes Manny and Ortiz are great hitters, but so was Bonds before he started juicing. Bonds was a 3 time MVP before he started shooting himself up.As for evidence, it's simple. I told you before that his ownership stake in the Red Sox will keep him from naming Red Sox players. Donnelly and Gagne were flukes as they were with the Angels and Rangers respectively when the investigation was getting hot and heavy. Look what happened...he didn't name a single player that was on the Red Sox at the time he was investigating.

[speedz99 145]

Every single one of those players have something in common, none of them were members of the Red Sox while the investigation was in it's information gathering stage. Once the players are either gone from the Red Sox he doesn't care if he turns them in or not as they are not the Red Sox problem anymore. I have questions about Manny and David Ortiz as they both have gotten un-proportionately bigger as their careers have gone on. Yes Manny and Ortiz are great hitters, but so was Bonds before he started juicing. Bonds was a 3 time MVP before he started shooting himself up.As for evidence, it's simple. I told you before that his ownership stake in the Red Sox will keep him from naming Red Sox players. Donnelly and Gagne were flukes as they were with the Angels and Rangers respectively when the investigation was getting hot and heavy. He didn't name a single player that was on the Red Sox at the he was investigating.

This is one of the dumber things I've read today. There's no Mitchell/Red Sox conspiracy. Do you think he conducted every interview himself? Of course not...most of the legwork was done by a group of people that all helped with the report. And I believe he was the only one with ties to the Sox. Are you really so deluded that you think he sat everyone down at the beginning of the investigation and said not to look at current Red Sox players regardless of what any of the sources said? Really? He sure as hell didn't change anything after the investigation period, seeing as it names a ton of former Sox players, including two from this past season's championship team.Seriously, don't be ridiculous.And flushgarden, sometimes I hate the fact that as a New England sports fan I get lumped in with people like you. The Sox won two championships. The Pats are unbeaten. The Celts are 18-2. The Bruins are playing well. Even the Revs have made the final game the past three or so seasons. You can calm down now.

[aadams_22 3]

This is one of the dumber things I've read today. There's no Mitchell/Red Sox conspiracy. Do you think he conducted every interview himself? Of course not...most of the legwork was done by a group of people that all helped with the report. And I believe he was the only one with ties to the Sox. Are you really so deluded that you think he sat everyone down at the beginning of the investigation and said not to look at current Red Sox players regardless of what any of the sources said? Really? He sure as hell didn't change anything after the investigation period, seeing as it names a ton of former Sox players, including two from this past season's championship team.

If you honestly believe that his affiliation with the Red Sox had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his investigation then you are either delusional or just plain stupid.I do realize that I will not win this argument no matter what I say, so I'm going to say my peace here and just end it.One last thing pertaining to the bolded part, read the part where I say "Every single one of those players have something in common, none of them were members of the Red Sox while the investigation was in it's information gathering stage." a little bit closer. You might find something in there. If you don't believe me then look up every single one of those players and you will see that the statement is completely true.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

One last thing pertaining to the bolded part, read the part where I say "Every single one of those players have something in common, none of them were members of the Red Sox while the investigation was in it's information gathering stage." a little bit closer. You might find something in there. If you don't believe me then look up every single one of those players and you will see that the statement is completely true.

If you bolded the entire sentence maybe you wouldn't have missed the point of what he was saying. Regarding that anyway.

[speedz99 145]

If you honestly believe that his affiliation with the Red Sox had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his investigation then you are either delusional or just plain stupid.

Way to address anything I said. WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED? HOW DID HE GET EVERYONE IN THE INVESTIGATION TO GO ALONG WITH IGNORING EVIDENCE AGAINST CURRENT RED SOX?Come on, you seem to feel strongly about this bullshit. How do you think it went down? Do you think it was at the first meeting he had with his staff? Maybe every time a current Sox player's name came up he erased all the tapes and files. Seriously, back something up with how you think it's at all possible, considering the fact that even though he was head of the investigation he wasa. not the one doing the majority of the researchb. not the only one there even when he was conducting the interviews

I do realize that I will not win this argument no matter what I say, so I'm going to say my peace here and just end it.

It's usually hard to back up idiotic arguments, so I don't blame you.

One last thing pertaining to the bolded part, read the part where I say "Every single one of those players have something in common, none of them were members of the Red Sox while the investigation was in it's information gathering stage." a little bit closer. You might find something in there. If you don't believe me then look up every single one of those players and you will see that the statement is completely true.

This is just absurd. Was a player from every one of the other 29 teams part of the "information gathering stage"? Come on, tell me. Every one of the other teams except for the Red Sox? No, not even close. It's a great argument you're making though. No holes at all. Obviously you're right...the entire investigation must have been corrupt. Mitchell and every other person on the team conspired to keep current Red Sox players (just during the heaviest part of the investigation) out of the report. Laughable.

[MDXS 0]

Thanks speedz for taking some of the burden off me. I really hate arguing with aadams, but I can't help myself. As for the Ramirez getting disproportionately huge all of a sudden, here he is 15 years ago in something called the "Youth Service League"What a skinny ****ing twig.And for Mitchell's ownership of the Red Sox:"I have been a consultant to the owners of the Boston Red Sox since that club wasacquired in 2002 by an ownership group led by John W. Henry. The club labelsthat position “director.” I am not and have never been involved in any way inbaseball operations, and I have no vote on any decisions by the owners. I do notnow hold, nor have I in the past ever held, any ownership or other equity interestin the Red Sox."Keep going though, it makes you look smart.EDIT to lighten the mood:

[bigkg 0]

Having a stake in the Red Sox is not a reason for someone of Mitchell's status to jeopardize his integrity by not naming Sox players. That idea is just stupid.

[Shia LaBeouf 0]

This whole thing is just bullshit. From what I can tell Mitchell didnt go after anyone, he took what was handed to him and passed it off as 20 months worth of work. If someone had handed him David Ortiz and Manny Ramieriz would he have turned them in? Yes, I think so. He wouldnt risk it. But he probably didnt look to hard for dirt on them. But he probably didnt look to hard for dirt on anyone. No one was going to cave and give up someone unless the government had something on them and was holding a lightened sentence as reward for snitching. But Fuck the Sox, Pats, and Celts.

[checkymcfold 0]

This whole thing is just bullshit. ... But he probably didnt look to hard for dirt on anyone. No one was going to cave and give up someone unless the government had something on them and was holding a lightened sentence as reward for snitching.

agreed.

But Fuck the Sox, Pats, and Celts.

no.

[brvheart 1,752]

Also, this thread was much better until Flushgarden showed up.

Truer words have never been spoken.... seriously.... never.

[Loismustdie 0]

Way to address anything I said. WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED? HOW DID HE GET EVERYONE IN THE INVESTIGATION TO GO ALONG WITH IGNORING EVIDENCE AGAINST CURRENT RED SOX?Come on, you seem to feel strongly about this bullshit. How do you think it went down? Do you think it was at the first meeting he had with his staff? Maybe every time a current Sox player's name came up he erased all the tapes and files. Seriously, back something up with how you think it's at all possible, considering the fact that even though he was head of the investigation he wasa. not the one doing the majority of the researchb. not the only one there even when he was conducting the interviewsIt's usually hard to back up idiotic arguments, so I don't blame you.This is just absurd. Was a player from every one of the other 29 teams part of the "information gathering stage"? Come on, tell me. Every one of the other teams except for the Red Sox? No, not even close. It's a great argument you're making though. No holes at all. Obviously you're right...the entire investigation must have been corrupt. Mitchell and every other person on the team conspired to keep current Red Sox players (just during the heaviest part of the investigation) out of the report. Laughable.

I mean, if you have ever read the Bible you know that it's actually pretty easy to get a group of people to go along with writing about lies. I imagine it would take some work, but you know it is so. I mean, I am pretty sure I have seen you make that argument before.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

The reason there are several Yankees from the early 90's is because one of Mitchell's key informants was employed by the Yankees during that time. He worked out Clemens and Petitte on an individual basis. He had knowledge of the inner workings of the clubhouse, and was basically the same as that Mets attendant (Kirk what's his name). Take off the tinfoil hats people.

[Speed Limit 0]

Part of me wonders if MLB gave Mitchell a list, or told him not to include certain players in the report if he found anything about them. Proabably not, but it was some theory that just would have been interesting.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Really, who cares? Baseball is a game built on cheating. They used to run 1st to 3rd when the ump wasn't looking for God's sake. If you asterisk anything you have to asterisk the whole sport.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

Really, who cares? Baseball is a game built on cheating. They used to run 1st to 3rd when the ump wasn't looking for God's sake. If you asterisk anything you have to asterisk the whole sport.

Too many Three Stooges movies for you

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Too many Three Stooges movies for you

It's actually a very true baseball fact.

[brvheart 1,752]

Story about the first "fake" list that came out yesterday

[TB17 0]

I still love you david justice

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

I still love you david justice

He was on Colin Cowherd's show on ESPN radio today defending himself to everyone. Seems he isn't a "needle guy" and could never do roids.

[speedz99 145]

This whole thing is just bullshit. From what I can tell Mitchell didnt go after anyone, he took what was handed to him and passed it off as 20 months worth of work. If someone had handed him David Ortiz and Manny Ramieriz would he have turned them in? Yes, I think so. He wouldnt risk it. But he probably didnt look to hard for dirt on them. But he probably didnt look to hard for dirt on anyone. No one was going to cave and give up someone unless the government had something on them and was holding a lightened sentence as reward for snitching.

Well said. I skimmed through the report and can't believe how much time and money was spent on it.

I mean, if you have ever read the Bible you know that it's actually pretty easy to get a group of people to go along with writing about lies. I imagine it would take some work, but you know it is so. I mean, I am pretty sure I have seen you make that argument before.

I have no idea what to make of this.

[Loismustdie 0]

Part of me wonders if MLB gave Mitchell a list, or told him not to include certain players in the report if he found anything about them. Proabably not, but it was some theory that just would have been interesting.

There is some valid thought to this. If you are truly going to end the McGwire and Bonds controversy you have to show that they had a valid reason. Like, one of the best pitchers ever was doing it as well. So, don't throw to many people under the bus but you have to at least include the ones dumb enough to cover there tracks. I would not be surprised if guys like Luis Gonzalez, Alex Rodriguez, Jim Thome, Paul O'neill and such are actually on that list. What I don't get is this is simple shit. If I cheat on my wife, I pay for the hotel room in cash. If I need weed, I pay for it in cash, through somebody else that actually has contact with a dealer. It's like some of these guys had absolutely no clue how to at least attempt to cover your tracks. The report itself I think actually proves that HGH and steroids aren't actually all that effective. Look at the long list of nobodies. Without talent, your just a really big guy swinging a stick. There is no replacement for effectively timed bat speed, hand eye coordination, and for pitchers preparation and mechanics.

[showstopper24 0]

What's the whole deal with David Justice?From what I can tell, David talked about doing steroids a couple of years ago, but he didn't because he was very scared of needles. Is this what happened?

[Loismustdie 0]

What's the whole deal with David Justice?From what I can tell, David talked about doing steroids a couple of years ago, but he didn't because he was very scared of needles. Is this what happened?

I don't know. As soon as I heard he denied using I stopped listening. I personally am offended at how retarded these guys think we are. I know they have been using, I don't need drug tests or a confession. I have these things called eyes, and deductive reasoning. It's all I need.

[showstopper24 0]

I don't know. As soon as I heard he denied using I stopped listening. I personally am offended at how retarded these guys think we are. I know they have been using, I don't need drug tests or a confession. I have these things called eyes, and deductive reasoning. It's all I need.

What do you mean when you say "I have these things called eyes..." Are you implying that you can tell somebody is on steroids because they have gotten bigger? It is possible, over a 15 year career, for a player to get more muscley.

[speedz99 145]

What do you mean when you say "I have these things called eyes..." Are you implying that you can tell somebody is on steroids because they have gotten bigger? It is possible, over a 15 year career, for a player to get more muscley.

Not after they turn 35.