cheating at the taj last night

[liveactiononly 0]

i didnt say that i give people money across the table....its not like i calculate exactly how much they lost on a certain hand and then divid the money up accordingly....i simply say "hey i took you for a lot of money on that hand so here is some of your money back"...as i said before...if i was there to take my friends money i would stay at home and not have to pay the rake...i am there to make money off of the guys at the casino.....It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them. Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating. Period.I dont change my play in any way shape or form during a hand that involves someone else at the table besides a friend of mine.....i dont participate in any collution where i bet with nothing to help my friend out of any other scam of that nature....the only point at which my play is altered is when at some point in a hand whether it be preflop or on the flop or wherever....me and my friend are the only two players in the hand...at which point we tell the dealer we are going to check it down and he puts down the remaing cards quicker....i have done this at many casinos and no person nor staff has ever complained or even mentioned anything regarding our actions. Most people understand the idea that you are friends and not trying to play against each other and dont care as long as their is no collusion with intent to play "team poker"....SMASH...EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THIS IS HURTING THE OTHER PLAYERS AT THE TABLE...

[Smasharoo 0]

SMASH...EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THIS IS HURTING THE OTHER PLAYERS AT THE TABLE...You and your freind are more likely to be in the game longer. Checking it down changes the table stakes for you both over the long term.You asked.

[TruePoker 1]

They are making 4x as much money as they should be, and then sharing it. How is this not cheating?

[CodyHartman 0]

It's amazing how much some people don't know about what constitutes cheating/collusion. Some of it is just not knowing. I remember when I played my first live ring game ever, I was playing with my step-dad at the table and at the turn I bet dood folds and he calls, then I check and motion to him to check. At the time I didn't think anything of it, till I was learned about softplaying. I immediatly apologized to the table and noone said they noticed anything EXCEPT the one player to my left that told me about it.Now the above example is beyond blatant collusion and it is beyond stupidity. Cardrooms across america, and the world for that matter, need to post some type of rules on this or something, for those that have NO clue. But for those who have blatant disregard, they need to keep the players apart or kick em out period.

[holman3rd 0]

The reason why people get away with sh1t like that is because players that notice don't care enough to say anything. Guarantee if you lost a big pot due to that capping on every street you would have been quite censored.

You're right about that. Fortunately, I wasn't in either hand. Like I said, I was tired, had a headache and felt it was time to leave anyway. I do have some regret for not saying anything, but I figured there wasn't any point since I was leaving anyway.AC is a pretty seedy place. You never know what retribution might occur when you confront cheaters like this. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but AC is known for boardwalk muggings, stabbings, etc. There was once even a mugging in the bathroom near the Taj's poker room. This type of stuff wasn't at the forefront of my mind, but it's worth considering.I might add that these two women appeared a little rough around edges (if you can somehow imagine what I mean), and had real bad attitudes---chip on their shoulders, if you will. It's like they were looking for a confrontation. I'm no wimp, but didn't see any upside to confronting them since I was leaving anyway. Not sure if I'm making any sense. FWIW, i play at the same table with my brother whenever possible (although we were at seperate tables this night). We both put our names up on the list and if we happen to get the same table, that's great. More often than not, we get seperate tables b/c it's usually crowded. That's fine b/c we're not cheaters, we just like to play at the same table. HOWEVER, we treat each other like any other player. No softplaying, rammin-jamming, chip passing, signals, whatever. And we don't square up our bankrolls afterwards, as some friends do. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it happens away from the table when the game is over. I added the last few comments about my brother and me just to show that I don't have a problem whatsoever with friends playing together.

[Vanillathunder 0]

The taj is BS for this stuff...Here's a good story about the Taj and cheating:I was sitting 1-3 7 card in my earlier days and I got dealt 4 to a straight flush on the first four cards. The guy 2 seats to my left is (obviously) dealt 2 pair.Next card comes off, mine is a brick, as is his. he bets out, I raise my draw.Next card comes off, hit my straight flush. He hits his full house.We cap it as everyone else on the table folds for the river card. The guy in between us looks down like he's scratching his right ear and turning his head to the left towards the guy and whispers "He doesn't have it." WTF? I could barely hear it, but fortunately, I did. Normally, I would immediately call the pit boss over, but since I hit it and I thought the guy believed it.. hey! Fine with me.. let's see if your buddy does too.river comes, I hit THE OTHER END OF THE STRAIGHT FLUSH. I couldn't believe it when I looked down. So... with no one else in the hand, we go to a reraising war. Because no one else was in the hand, we can reraise each other all in as long as it's in $3 increments.We do.The guy says, "Your flush is done, I know you missed it" Flips over his full house.I say, "Not only you and this guy cheats, you're lousy cheats" Flip my straight flush, get the chips pushed to me and watch this guy steam as he re-buys. I took down all of his (rather large) stack in a 1-3 game because of this.... Incredibly rare occurence, but a learning one for sure.I thought I'd get the parking garage treatment for that stunt. I waited until his buddy and him busted out to actually leave the Taj + 30 minutes to make sure nothing happened to me. (At the Taj, the exit doors and escalator are right near the entrance and you can see when people leave.) Very scary shit.

[Scott3705 0]

It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them.Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating. Period.

I will often slowplay my friend if we end up toward the end of a hand heads up unless I have a monster which I can't justify not betting. Had a very pissed off old man in AC get upset about us checking the river to eachother and complained to the dealer. Dealer said it was fine. Old man called over a manager/pit boss (don't know what they're called in the poker room) who said there's nothing wrong with it either. That's just my experience with this rule. Can't see passing chips is legal though. Every time i've ever seen someone to buy chips off of someone else, the dealers have gotten on them. I can't imagine allowing them to pass chips.

[TheIceman05 0]

It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them.Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating. Period.

I'll disagree. When I play against my friend at the casino, I'll check a borderline hand to him on the river WHEN WE WENT TO THE RIVER HEADS UP in a cash game situation. Maybe I'll come out betting when I'd usually go for a check raise blah blah etc. In a tournament, that would be a major no-no. If there's another player in the pot, that would be a major no-no. But I have no objections to checking the river down if it effects nobody else. The only possible objection here: Perhaps our play on 4th street is affected by our knowledge that this might happen. We've never discussed it, and it doesn't happen too often... (like I said, usually in pretty marginal situations, but where a bet's probably right) And sometimes I wonder how ethical it is. But anybody who soft-plays an opponent while other people are in the pot, or has an understanding to trade money with an opponent after a hand is a cheater.Ice

[711Buddha 0]

Softplaying is just choosing not to make the paly with the highest expected value. Failing to make an optimal play is not cheating. Its what we all count on as a matter of fact. Saving bets is different.

[blknines 0]

well damnit some one get them to change that rule cause turtle lake is a damn far drive from south of saint cloud.

yup, the closest thing for me is shooting star in mahnomen and they have 4 tables of 3/6 at the most

The Shooting Star is also the closest casino for me to play at. You must have gone at a good time to see 4 tables going. Everytime I go there at about 11pm-4am, there is usually only one table, sometimes 2.

[holman3rd 0]

It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them.Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating.  Period.

I will often slowplay my friend if we end up toward the end of a hand heads up unless I have a monster which I can't justify not betting. Had a very censored off old man in AC get upset about us checking the river to eachother and complained to the dealer. Dealer said it was fine. Old man called over a manager/pit boss (don't know what they're called in the poker room) who said there's nothing wrong with it either. That's just my experience with this rule. Can't see passing chips is legal though. Every time i've ever seen someone to buy chips off of someone else, the dealers have gotten on them. I can't imagine allowing them to pass chips.

Just to remind everyone---the situation i described involved pot jamming to milk a 3rd player and ultimately get him to fold. the checking at the river by the two cheats only served as further evidence that they were cheating...as did the fact that TPTK took down the pot...as did the fact that this scenario happened TWICE. And let's not forget the chip passing after each hand. All circumstantial in isolation, but as a string of evidence, i believe it supports my belief that they were cheating.

[jack24bauer24 0]

It's not cheating. To say its cheating is ridiculous. There's no rule against checking the entire hand if you want. If you don't tell the other person what hand you have, or are using signals, its not cheating, end of story.What poker rule did they break?Answer: None.The giving the other person their money back is just plain stupidity. Do that after the session.

[jack24bauer24 0]

It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them.Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating.  Period.

This is just flat out wrong.

[hexag1 0]

soft playing against your friends is not illegal. My friends and i just check it down when we are alone in the pots with each other. And most of the time if we are in a big hand together we will give each other the money that the other one lost back after the session. We dont at any point tell each other what we have or play together.....we simply are not their to take each others money. Just wondering if you guys consider this cheating. I dont...obviously i wouldnt be doing it if i thought it was wrong.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CHEATING!! softplaying is cheating in every sense of the word. how is it fair that I should sit down in a ring game and have 9 opponents, while you and your friend sit next to me and have only 8 opponents? you arrangement violates a fundamental rule of poker, which is every man for himself. by softplaying each other, you have an opponent that poses no threat to you, but does threat everyone else.if its ok for you and your friend to softplay each other at a table, why not sit down with 5 or 6 friends, and just take everyone elses money? would that be ok too? when i play with my friends, i gun for them!!you are a card cheat, plain and simple..

[holman3rd 0]

It's not cheating. To say its cheating is ridiculous. There's no rule against checking the entire hand if you want. If you don't tell the other person what hand you have, or are using signals, its not cheating, end of story.What poker rule did they break?Answer: None.The giving the other person their money back is just plain stupidity. Do that after the session.

How can you actually believe this? They obviously colluded before they sat down. Obviously, they agreed that if one of them raised a pot, the other was to jam it to reel in the fish and then move them off their hands. Or, the jamming was to jack up the pot with fish money when one of them had a strong hand.

[jack24bauer24 0]

They broke no card rule, they violated nothing. There is nothing illegal with raising and calling, and then checking it down. Name me their violation?If they aren't signalling each other what hands they have and such, how is this cheating?Name the card rule they broke.

[jogsxyz 0]

Just to remind everyone---the situation i described involved pot jamming to milk a 3rd player and ultimately get him to fold. the checking at the river by the two cheats only served as further evidence that they were cheating...as did the fact that TPTK took down the pot...as did the fact that this scenario happened TWICE.

This part is clearly cheating.

And let's not forget the chip passing after each hand. All circumstantial in isolation, but as a string of evidence, i believe it supports my belief that they were cheating.

This part is stupidity. Not only are these two women cheating, they are announcing to the entire table that they are playing together. If they had any sense the money would be returned after they leave the club.

[jogsxyz 0]

It's great how whatever each poster does that's obviously cheating isn't for them.Any time you change your play from trying to make the most money to anything else because of a relationship you have with the opponent, you're cheating.  Period.

Another absolute from Smash. Top pros do this all the time. It's called mixing up your play. It keeps your opponents off balance.

[holman3rd 0]

They broke no card rule, they violated nothing. There is nothing illegal with raising and calling, and then checking it down. Name me their violation?If they aren't signalling each other what hands they have and such, how is this cheating?Name the card rule they broke.

Very well...from Robert's Rules of Poker...1 - PROPER BEHAVIOR CONDUCT CODEManagement will attempt to maintain a pleasant environment for all our customers and employees, but is not responsible for the conduct of any player. We have established a code of conduct, and may deny the use of our cardroom to anyone who violates it. The following are not permitted:Collusion with another player or any other form of cheating. Verbally or physically threatening any patron or employee. Using profanity or obscene language. Creating a disturbance by arguing, shouting, or making excessive noise. Throwing, tearing, bending, or crumpling cards. Destroying or defacing property. Using an illegal substance. Carrying a weapon.

[holman3rd 0]

They broke no card rule, they violated nothing. There is nothing illegal with raising and calling, and then checking it down. Name me their violation?If they aren't signalling each other what hands they have and such, how is this cheating?Name the card rule they broke.

Here's more. Click the link and scroll down to "Collusion". There's actually a name for the scenario I described--whipsawing.Thanks for making me prove my point, I learned something.http://www.answers.com/topic/cheating-in-poker

[jack24bauer24 0]

They broke no card rule, they violated nothing. There is nothing illegal with raising and calling, and then checking it down. Name me their violation?If they aren't signalling each other what hands they have and such, how is this cheating?Name the card rule they broke.

Very well...from Robert's Rules of Poker...1 - PROPER BEHAVIOR CONDUCT CODEManagement will attempt to maintain a pleasant environment for all our customers and employees, but is not responsible for the conduct of any player. We have established a code of conduct, and may deny the use of our cardroom to anyone who violates it. The following are not permitted:Collusion with another player or any other form of cheating. Verbally or physically threatening any patron or employee. Using profanity or obscene language. Creating a disturbance by arguing, shouting, or making excessive noise. Throwing, tearing, bending, or crumpling cards. Destroying or defacing property. Using an illegal substance. Carrying a weapon.

Not knowing or sharing hand information isn't colluding. You didn't post any rule they broke.

[jack24bauer24 0]

If 2 people get to heads up and they are friends, what does it matter to the other 7 people playing who wins the money between the two, if there is more betting, etc.

[holman3rd 0]

If 2 people get to heads up and they are friends, what does it matter to the other 7 people playing who wins the money between the two, if there is more betting, etc.

You just don't get it. It wasn't heads up. They squeezed a 3rd player two different times. Whipsawing is the name for it and it's considering collusion, which is against the rules (which I already posted).

[jack24bauer24 0]

If 2 people get to heads up and they are friends, what does it matter to the other 7 people playing who wins the money between the two, if there is more betting, etc.

You just don't get it. It wasn't heads up. They squeezed a 3rd player two different times. Whipsawing is the name for it and it's considering collusion, which is against the rules (which I already posted).

Against the rules of some misc. website you found. If they didn't give each other the chips they lost, how would you know the cheated? And how do you prevent someone from checking down a hand? How is checking illegal?

[jack24bauer24 0]

Furthermore, say the player with tptk had ak, and the other person had QQ, could checking it down not be an option?