Calculating Golfer's "par", Daniel Style

[ilovejulie 0]

Daniel,Was reading your 10/24/07 blog about handicapping a "par" score amongst your buddies. As a single digit handicap player and degenerate golf gambler for over 30 years, I think your process on that system may be flawed. To put it in poker terms, the worse the player the higher the variance of score. I, as a 6 handicapper, may typically shoot between 75 and 82, where you as a 20 may shoot between 86 and 102. Under your system I am going to shoot -3 -to +4, but typically only 1 or 2 above or below average, whereas you may shoot -6 to +10, and typically in a range of 4-5 above or below average. I believe that the higher handicap player will be at a decided disadvantage under such a scenario. Having a big variance versus a low variance makes it likely for you to go on longer runs of winning or losing, and in golf, where 20 matches in a month may be a lot, you are always facing the "short run" rather than the "long run". I know you are playing for fun and can afford it, but having huge variance in your gambling is not going to help you in your quest to learn the game and be a better player. I do suggest that you strive to identify the most accurate actual "handicap" of each player, which is computed under USGA guidelines by taking 96% of the differential of the lowest 10 scores of the last 20 rounds played versus the course rating of those scores ( the pros at Summerlin will be glad to help I'm sure). This system has been in place for decades and through all sorts of gambling and competition scenarios, has proven to stand the test of time. In stroke play 100% of the differential between the two player's handicaps is the preferred method for heads up matches, 90% differential in 2-man better ball play, 70% for 4-ball competition, and 50% for Scrambles have been the typical methods that most clubs base their competitions on. Under matchplay rules, the differential would be smaller percentages for each type of contest.Hope this can help you get a fair shake on the first tee, where most matches are won or lost, after all.Warm regards,David in Atlanta(ilovejulie on the Forums)

[showstopper24 0]

I want to try the grease thing on my clubs. Is it just vasoline?

[ilovejulie 0]

Yes, Vasoline is the old school cheat that cuts spin, thus reducing slices and hooks, and with new balls these days, increases length off the tee. But don't be a dick like that.

[nutzbuster 7]

Daniel,Was reading your 10/24/07 blog about handicapping a "par" score amongst your buddies. As a single digit handicap player and degenerate golf gambler for over 30 years, I think your process on that system may be flawed. To put it in poker terms, the worse the player the higher the variance of score. I, as a 6 handicapper, may typically shoot between 75 and 82, where you as a 20 may shoot between 86 and 102. Under your system I am going to shoot -3 -to +4, but typically only 1 or 2 above or below average, whereas you may shoot -6 to +10, and typically in a range of 4-5 above or below average. I believe that the higher handicap player will be at a decided disadvantage under such a scenario. Having a big variance versus a low variance makes it likely for you to go on longer runs of winning or losing, and in golf, where 20 matches in a month may be a lot, you are always facing the "short run" rather than the "long run". I know you are playing for fun and can afford it, but having huge variance in your gambling is not going to help you in your quest to learn the game and be a better player. I do suggest that you strive to identify the most accurate actual "handicap" of each player, which is computed under USGA guidelines by taking 96% of the differential of the lowest 10 scores of the last 20 rounds played versus the course rating of those scores ( the pros at Summerlin will be glad to help I'm sure). This system has been in place for decades and through all sorts of gambling and competition scenarios, has proven to stand the test of time. In stroke play 100% of the differential between the two player's handicaps is the preferred method for heads up matches, 90% differential in 2-man better ball play, 70% for 4-ball competition, and 50% for Scrambles have been the typical methods that most clubs base their competitions on. Under matchplay rules, the differential would be smaller percentages for each type of contest.Hope this can help you get a fair shake on the first tee, where most matches are won or lost, after all.Warm regards,David in Atlanta(ilovejulie on the Forums)

ok, I pretty much got lost in there.Does this mean that I actually won my bet?

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Daniel,Was reading your 10/24/07 blog about handicapping a "par" score amongst your buddies. As a single digit handicap player and degenerate golf gambler for over 30 years, I think your process on that system may be flawed. To put it in poker terms, the worse the player the higher the variance of score. I, as a 6 handicapper, may typically shoot between 75 and 82, where you as a 20 may shoot between 86 and 102. Under your system I am going to shoot -3 -to +4, but typically only 1 or 2 above or below average, whereas you may shoot -6 to +10, and typically in a range of 4-5 above or below average. I believe that the higher handicap player will be at a decided disadvantage under such a scenario. Having a big variance versus a low variance makes it likely for you to go on longer runs of winning or losing, and in golf, where 20 matches in a month may be a lot, you are always facing the "short run" rather than the "long run". I know you are playing for fun and can afford it, but having huge variance in your gambling is not going to help you in your quest to learn the game and be a better player. I do suggest that you strive to identify the most accurate actual "handicap" of each player, which is computed under USGA guidelines by taking 96% of the differential of the lowest 10 scores of the last 20 rounds played versus the course rating of those scores ( the pros at Summerlin will be glad to help I'm sure). This system has been in place for decades and through all sorts of gambling and competition scenarios, has proven to stand the test of time. In stroke play 100% of the differential between the two player's handicaps is the preferred method for heads up matches, 90% differential in 2-man better ball play, 70% for 4-ball competition, and 50% for Scrambles have been the typical methods that most clubs base their competitions on. Under matchplay rules, the differential would be smaller percentages for each type of contest.Hope this can help you get a fair shake on the first tee, where most matches are won or lost, after all.Warm regards,David in Atlanta(ilovejulie on the Forums)

I'm the only one that actually bothers to keep a handicap. I'm a 21.7. As for the little tourney's we do, we only do it when we get 8 guys together and we pay three spots. It's $500 a man which is really small compared to what we actually play for in matches. I come up with the spots for everyone, so it's "always" fair, lol. The first one we did I won by 1 stroke with a +4 98 (windy day). The second one we played I didn't cash and didn't deserve to. Side note, some teachers have no clue how to indentify swing faults. I was out there recently and he tells me to just throw away my 3-wood, lol. I've been hitting my irons and driver well and couldn't get the 3-wood right. He just says it's the club. Meanwhile I have hit the club great in the past so I knew he was wrong. I finally figured it out: GRIP!!! My right hand was too lazy and almost underneath the club forcing me to shut the clubface on the downswing, causing an ugly worm burner. It's not a "major" problem wth the irons but it really shows with the 3-wood. I made one small adjustment, turning my right forearm to the left after setting up, and BOOM, now I'm piping the 3-wood AND hitting my irons further.

[qyayqi 11]

worm burner, eh? i've always been partial to calling it a g.r.assburner.

[nutzbuster 7]

In every lesson I have ever taken the instructor usually identified a grip flaw, fixed it, and the results were just amazing.Weird how something seemingly so small can make such a huge difference.

[csanchez70 0]

Any lesson you ever take should start with the Instructor looking at your fundamentals, it's hard to play good golf with bad fundamentals.As for the teacher telling you to just get rid of your 3 wood, he should be telling you what is causing you to hit the club poorly, not simply to get rid of it. There is always a cause to why you are hitting the ball the way you are, sounds like you figured that out with your grip. It seems your grip was too strong causing those hooks, a good check I like is to grip the club and simply open your right hand so your fingers are straight, your palm should be facing your target (assuming you want a neutral grip), if it faces up your grip is too strong and if it faces down too weak.

[Oziumrules 0]

In every lesson I have ever taken the instructor usually identified a grip flaw, fixed it, and the results were just amazing.Weird how something seemingly so small can make such a huge difference.

My girlfriend always says that!

[El Guapo 8]

My girlfriend always says that!

[nutzbuster 7]

My girlfriend always says that!

Too much information?BAWAHHAHAAA!!(Sorry about your condition..)

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

In every lesson I have ever taken the instructor usually identified a grip flaw, fixed it, and the results were just amazing.Weird how something seemingly so small can make such a huge difference.

Most pros will tell you the single two largest flaws in the games of the amateurs they play with in pro ams is grip and not hitting enough club. If you can address the grip issue with a good instructor, and take a little more club on each shot, it will solve most problems of the mid to high handicapper.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

I think I may have figured out why there is grip issues for me with certain clubs... the grips are different! My irons have much fatter grips and I hit them very well, while my woods have much thinner grips and my hands never feel like they start out in the right place. Tonight my guy is changing the grips on my clubs so we'll see what happens tomorrow... I am a stats freak and recently have been keeping track of lots of personal golf stats. This represents just the last six rounds I played, and ONLY at TPC Summerlin:Scoring Average: 95.5Fairways Hit: 5.33Greens In Regulation: 3Putts: 35.5Average Driving Distance: 196.77Par 3 Average: 3.95Par 4 Average: 5.38Par 5 Average: 6.46Average vs Par by Hole:1. 1.002. 1.503. 1.334. 1.175. 1.176. 1.507. 1.178. 1.009. 1.00Front 9 Average: 46.8310.1.6711.1.3312.1.8313.1.8314.0.6715.1.1716.1.6717.1.0018.1.50Back 9 Average: 48.70

[csanchez70 0]

I think I may have figured out why there is grip issues for me with certain clubs... the grips are different! My irons have much fatter grips and I hit them very well, while my woods have much thinner grips and my hands never feel like they start out in the right place. Tonight my guy is changing the grips on my clubs so we'll see what happens tomorrow... I am a stats freak and recently have been keeping track of lots of personal golf stats. This represents just the last six rounds I played, and ONLY at TPC Summerlin:Scoring Average: 95.5Fairways Hit: 5.33Greens In Regulation: 3Putts: 35.5Average Driving Distance: 196.77Par 3 Average: 3.95Par 4 Average: 5.38Par 5 Average: 6.46Average vs Par by Hole:1. 1.002. 1.503. 1.334. 1.175. 1.176. 1.507. 1.178. 1.009. 1.00Front 9 Average: 46.8310.1.6711.1.3312.1.8313.1.8314.0.6715.1.1716.1.6717.1.0018.1.50Back 9 Average: 48.70

Glad to hear you are getting your grips taken care of, your equipment should help your game, not hurt it.Here are my thoughts on your stats (for what they're worth): Distance is clearly a big issue. As the length of the hole increases so does your score. Like myself you're not a big guy but you should still be getting more distance out of your swing. A little more distance would allow you to hit more greens and take some pressure off your short game.Another good stat to keep would be your up and down percentage once you get around the green. If you're averaging 35.5 putts you're not getting up and down enough or you're three putting too much.Hopefully you found someone who is helping you each time you go out. If not let me know, I'm close, available, and know I could help(results guaranteed). Keep us updated on the stats and good luck.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Glad to hear you are getting your grips taken care of, your equipment should help your game, not hurt it.Here are my thoughts on your stats (for what they're worth): Distance is clearly a big issue. As the length of the hole increases so does your score. Like myself you're not a big guy but you should still be getting more distance out of your swing. A little more distance would allow you to hit more greens and take some pressure off your short game.Another good stat to keep would be your up and down percentage once you get around the green. If you're averaging 35.5 putts you're not getting up and down enough or you're three putting too much.Hopefully you found someone who is helping you each time you go out. If not let me know, I'm close, available, and know I could help(results guaranteed). Keep us updated on the stats and good luck.

My biggest problem, without question, has been the fact that I can't use my woods recently at all. On Par 5's that's killer for me as I'm going with a 4-iron which works but I hit that about 170. As for driving distance, I probably don't calculate it right since I track ALL drives, even the ones that go left and right. Are you supposed to just track the ones that hit the fairway? If so I'd be closer to 220 yards per drive.

[csanchez70 0]

My biggest problem, without question, has been the fact that I can't use my woods recently at all. On Par 5's that's killer for me as I'm going with a 4-iron which works but I hit that about 170. As for driving distance, I probably don't calculate it right since I track ALL drives, even the ones that go left and right. Are you supposed to just track the ones that hit the fairway? If so I'd be closer to 220 yards per drive.

I'm sure you were fit for your equipment but if not that will definitely help, I know some guys here in Vegas that specialize in fitting. Let me know if you're interested.You can track distance either way, 220 is better but you still have more in the tank. I've seen you play and there are some swing faults hindering your distance but I'm sure you're working those out. Just think what being 30 yards closer every hole would do for you scores. If you ever want my thoughts let me know.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

My biggest problem, without question, has been the fact that I can't use my woods recently at all. On Par 5's that's killer for me as I'm going with a 4-iron which works but I hit that about 170. As for driving distance, I probably don't calculate it right since I track ALL drives, even the ones that go left and right. Are you supposed to just track the ones that hit the fairway? If so I'd be closer to 220 yards per drive.

When they calculate driving distance on the tour, its fairways hit. Putting is putts per green in regulation.As for the woods issue, have you tried to hit any of the hybrids on the market? They are much easier to hit than a 3 wood or long iron, and fly high and land soft.

[pokerfriendly 0]

I think I may have figured out why there is grip issues for me with certain clubs... the grips are different! My irons have much fatter grips and I hit them very well, while my woods have much thinner grips and my hands never feel like they start out in the right place. Tonight my guy is changing the grips on my clubs so we'll see what happens tomorrow...I am a stats freak and recently have been keeping track of lots of personal golf stats. This represents just the last six rounds I played, and ONLY at TPC Summerlin:Scoring Average: 95.5Fairways Hit: 5.33Greens In Regulation: 3Putts: 35.5Average Driving Distance: 196.77Par 3 Average: 3.95Par 4 Average: 5.38Par 5 Average: 6.46Average vs Par by Hole:1. 1.002. 1.503. 1.334. 1.175. 1.176. 1.507. 1.178. 1.009. 1.00Front 9 Average: 46.8310.1.6711.1.3312.1.8313.1.8314.0.6715.1.1716.1.6717.1.0018.1.50Back 9 Average: 48.70

I'd work on my Driving, try using long tees and hitting your ball on your upswing. you'll gain some yardage, move the ball forward a little and tee it up! And start working out a little your out of shape, it might drop the back nine score a little. lol

[dbrent2 0]

When they calculate driving distance on the tour, its fairways hit. Putting is putts per green in regulation.As for the woods issue, have you tried to hit any of the hybrids on the market? They are much easier to hit than a 3 wood or long iron, and fly high and land soft.

agree with the above, and also with the work on the short game. I am a scratch player and replaced my 2-iron witha 2 hybrid (18*)Distance will come with better fundamentals and timing. Practice your short game, especially 50 yards and in. No matter how good your full swing, you will still hit some bad shots, so recovery is the name of game. Over half of your shots are inside 100 yards...Your grips need to be all the same, and if you haven't been properly fitted, you need to get fitted. Example, I have a Callaway hybrid, and it came with a stiff shaft. I had a chance to have all my woods frequency tested (shaft stiffness), and my hybrid tested at a 2.6 (8.0 is x-stiff). Needless to say, I got it changed out to a shaft that fits my swing speed. Big difference, and I am more consistant.But, you can never practice your short game too much

[zingbust 0]

But, you can never practice your short game too much

Pretend you're injured and can't take a full swing, practice nothing but short game stuff, work on timing and rhythm and smoothness of strokes on all your shots. Do that for a month, then treat yourself to a span of time at the driving range, you'll find something amazing will happen, your long game will have improved.

[csanchez70 0]

The most important thing is keeping your fundamentals in good shape, as Daniel has noticed with his recent grip changes. Clearly his grip got out of position (perhaps in part due to his grips) and it had an adverse effect on his game.I like to get a student out on the course so I can see how he or she plays the game, not just how they swing it on the range. A lot of times I'll get a student that I've been teaching out on the course and their alignment is way off, causing them to make compensations in their swing. Most amateurs don't spend enough time on their short games either which is usually the easiest way to lower your scores.My advice to making big strides in golf is to have someone by your side as much as possible(assuming you can afford it and have someone willing). Your fundamentals can easily get of course without your knowledge but having a Pro around could prevent this. Obviously this isn't possible for most people but is a viable option for someone who can afford it and really has the desire to improve. Ivey has a great guy by his side most of the time(he makes sure Phil is aligned properly and even lines up his putts) and his game has come a long way from the swings he made on the 2004 WSOP coverage.

[Balloon guy 158]

Played Bighorn today.Switched to an interlocking grip from and overlap and got the ball to drive straight again. I had a huge problem pushing everything right.why did the grip thing change the ball flight?

[nutzbuster 7]

Played Bighorn today.Switched to an interlocking grip from and overlap and got the ball to drive straight again. I had a huge problem pushing everything right.why did the grip thing change the ball flight?

Well...the interlocking grip actually lets you grip the club more securely with less pressure needed to then hang onto the club, which means less force exerted from your arms, which translates to less tense forearm muscles, which then allows for a much smoother swing at impact, which further then promotes proper forearm rotation at impact , which then translates to straighter ba....uhh.......hang on minute, my clothes dryer buzzer just went off.............

[dbrent2 0]

Well...the interlocking grip actually lets you grip the club more securely with less pressure needed to then hang onto the club, which means less force exerted from your arms, which translates to less tense forearm muscles, which then allows for a much smoother swing at impact, which further then promotes proper forearm rotation at impact , which then translates to straighter ba....uhh.......hang on minute, my clothes dryer buzzer just went off.............

maybe the grip change got your mind off the pushies. BTW Nutz, I now live in Chandler and I am attending the SDGA for the next year. Free golf lessons are available if needed

[nutzbuster 7]

maybe the grip change got your mind off the pushies. BTW Nutz, I now live in Chandler and I am attending the SDGA for the next year. Free golf lessons are available if needed

No kiddin? WOO HOO!!! thanks man. My wife needs them bad......um....I mean, me too, lol, so I just might take you up on that offer at some point.Stay tuned to the Gen Pop forums as every now and then some of us AZ FCP folks get together at Casino Arizona. And if you need any help like finding things around here or what not let me know.