MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 First of all tanking is for losers...This is a fact..this is the AHL or FCHL...YOu guys keep bringing up the 80s and 90s and the last 6 years...BURKE WASNT HERE...See the Flyers and how bad they were before they came oh so close to a cup...Oh and the Penguins cheated...thats another issue.no one is talking about the AHL or FCHL. We're talking about the NHL and teams that succeed. Yours doesnt. And the Flyers? Its called some drafting. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 When the Flyers had that one bad year, they already had Richards and Carter in the system... Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Nobody said tank, but the Leafs have blown for the better part of a decade and have NOTHING to show for it!how many teams have?its a fine line between Stanley Cup and missing the playoffs..We have seen this before..And once again like the buffoon media, you equate what has happened before to what Burke is doing. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Why do you guys do this?Talking Leafs with serge is like talking politics. His mind is set and nothing you do or say or any statistical facts you present to him he will always believe that the Leafs are doing the perfect thing regardless of how many years they sit at the bottom. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 lol have you ever admitted to being wrong, or the Leafs doing something wrong IN THE PRESENT in your life? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Why do you guys do this?Talking Leafs with serge is like talking politics. His mind is set and nothing you do or say or any statistical facts you present to him he will always believe that the Leafs are doing the perfect thing regardless of how many years they sit at the bottom.There are no statistical facts...Just a bunch of misinformed people who think they are all NHL gms..They think they are smarter than Brian Burke, meanwhile obviously they arent. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 lol have you ever admitted to being wrong, or the Leafs doing something wrong IN THE PRESENT in your life?Yes...many times... Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 There are no statistical facts...Just a bunch of misinformed people who think they are all NHL gms..They think they are smarter than Brian Burke, meanwhile obviously they arent.Potmeet kettle Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I'm not talking about after the fact, like you bashing Stajan or JFJ after they leave the club.But anyways, the discussion part is over, and now it's just annoying rhetoric.Good day. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Why do you guys do this?Talking Leafs with serge is like talking politics. His mind is set and nothing you do or say or any statistical facts you present to him he will always believe that the Leafs are doing the perfect thing regardless of how many years they sit at the bottom.I know, you couldnt be more dead on. Its just beating a dead horse.My 1pm appt is late, and killing time I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I know, you couldnt be more dead on. Its just beating a dead horse.My 1pm appt is late, and killing time I guess.an hour late! Sheesh! Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 I'm not talking about after the fact, like you bashing Stajan or JFJ after they leave the club.But anyways, the discussion part is over, and now it's just annoying rhetoric.Good day.Sure ...Maybe since this discussion is over , you can write 41 paragraphs on Sidney Crosby..Thanks..Good afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 I know, you couldnt be more dead on. Its just beating a dead horse.My 1pm appt is late, and killing time I guess.He is late like your views...From what I understand from this dialogue:Arp and Zach know more about hockey than Brian Burke. Arp and Zach would be able to make the Leafs competitive, because ITS SO EASY...Draft good young players and wait 5 years.Its SO EASY.... Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 He is late like your views...From what I understand from this dialogue:Arp and Zach know more about hockey than Brian Burke. Arp and Zach would be able to make the Leafs competitive, because ITS SO EASY...Draft good young players and wait 5 years.Its SO EASY....Do you intentionally miss the point or do it for fun? Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 He is late like your views...From what I understand from this dialogue:Arp and Zach know more about hockey than Brian Burke. Arp and Zach would be able to make the Leafs competitive, because ITS SO EASY...Draft good young players and wait 5 years.Its SO EASY....luckily, you know more than all of us combined and can set us straight. smartest guy here=Serge.if your gonna have fantasy views, the least you can do is show some respect to us and not to distort OUR views. Neither one of us said anything about being smarter than Burke, or being able to turn this around quicker, or anything of the sort. In fact, all I said was, I wonder if Burke truly believes in what he says publicly. If he does, than yeah, I would take a different stratedgy. There is a difference between having a different viewpoint than someone, and being smarter than someone. Your team=Havent won a thing in years, decades. This should always end the argument.Now 1.5hours late. Im on tilt! Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 luckily, you know more than all of us combined and can set us straight. smartest guy here=Serge.if your gonna have fantasy views, the least you can do is show some respect to us and not to distort OUR views. Neither one of us said anything about being smarter than Burke, or being able to turn this around quicker, or anything of the sort. In fact, all I said was, I wonder if Burke truly believes in what he says publicly. If he does, than yeah, I would take a different stratedgy. There is a difference between having a different viewpoint than someone, and being smarter than someone. Your team=Havent won a thing in years, decades. This should always end the argument.Now 1.5hours late. Im on tilt!Its not about respect..As you know i have the utmost respect for you as a person and a hockey guy.However you keep saying over and over again, that what Burke should have done is so clear...He should build through the draft..if thats not what you are saying than I apologize..If you arent saying it I know Zach and other are..The smart comment was wrong..i am sorry...But i still put it out there, if ITS SO EASY, why wouldnt Brian Burke who is one of the smartest guys out there follow what you are suggesting. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Its not about respect..As you know i have the utmost respect for you as a person and a hockey guy.However you keep saying over and over again, that what Burke should have done is so clear...He should build through the draft..if thats not what you are saying than I apologize..If you arent saying it I know Zach and other are..The smart comment was wrong..i am sorry...But i still put it out there, if ITS SO EASY, why wouldnt Brian Burke who is one of the smartest guys out there follow what you are suggesting.no worries.Two different things here:1. Burke's time+strat:Its not so easy. And yes, its entirely possible he has a different stratedgy that might work, instead of building through the draft. Thats fine, but then I get to be pickier earlier, and ask why after 2years of his quick rebuild, is this team still not a playoff team. If he wants to do it quicker, thats fine, but then accept the criticism when it doesnt happen sooner. If next year this team is still not a playoff team, after 3yrs of Burke, are you gonna call him a failure? If not, when? Personally, I like the idea of giving Burke 5-7years, but you seem to argue he should have these guys in the playoffs by next year at latest. Is that not true?2. Leafs as a whole, esp last 15years.I worry that Burke will continue past mistakes, thats what Im saying. Its hard not to look around the league, and wonder what the Leafs would look like if they kept some of their younger players (Steen/Rask) and not traded away picks (Seguin/Couture). You call it tanking, I call it waiting for the right opportunity and going for it all, instead of settling for better than average. We disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 no worries.Two different things here:1. Burke's time+strat:Its not so easy. And yes, its entirely possible he has a different stratedgy that might work, instead of building through the draft. Thats fine, but then I get to be pickier earlier, and ask why after 2years of his quick rebuild, is this team still not a playoff team. If he wants to do it quicker, thats fine, but then accept the criticism when it doesnt happen sooner. If next year this team is still not a playoff team, after 3yrs of Burke, are you gonna call him a failure? If not, when? Personally, I like the idea of giving Burke 5-7years, but you seem to argue he should have these guys in the playoffs by next year at latest. Is that not true?2. Leafs as a whole, esp last 15years.I worry that Burke will continue past mistakes, thats what Im saying. Its hard not to look around the league, and wonder what the Leafs would look like if they kept some of their younger players (Steen/Rask) and not traded away picks (Seguin/Couture). You call it tanking, I call it waiting for the right opportunity and going for it all, instead of settling for better than average. We disagree.If the Leafs finish in the lottery this year and miss the playoffs again next year, yes then he is a failure..And he will admit to that...However if like I suspect we improve and next year a serious playoff team , with loads of young guys and cap space then it is a success...This team will be competing for a Stanley Cup within 3 years IMO..IF they loaded up on draft picks , they most probably would need 7 years..Assuming things went perfect...The likelihood of them being worse off was also a possibility...If they "tanked" the Leafs would of missed the playoffs for at least 5 years more...Thats not what Burke is looking for...Get in the playoffs and hope for the best WHILE improving...And Ill go out and say the window of Stanley Cup contention will be larger than the Penguins and the Black Hawks..Chicago had to break up most of the team last year..Yes they have a core but they wont win anymore cups and will struggle to make the playoffs this year.Again I say look at the Islanders, The Senators even..The Senators were the poster boy for Tanking...They are currently worse off than the Leafs IMO...Did they win a Cup??They were close one year,but thats it. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I never said it was easy, but it's a simple EV move.If rebuilding through the draft yields a championship 5% of the time and doing whatever Burke is trying to do yields a championship 3% of the time, then I'll take the former.Whatever Burke's doing has no history of winning a championship, the draft model does. Therefore, I win. =============Lord Serge, you really are a riot to argue against.You mentioned that the Flyers had a one-year "rebuild" which was really just one crappy year while they were waiting for prospects they had already drafted, and you use that as evidence for your side, as how they came close to a Cup. Ok, cool. But 5 minutes later you use the fact that the Sens got close to a Cup but never won anything (despite being a league power for a number of years) as an argument against our "tank" (for lack of a better word) and build through the draft model?That's just silly.And really, you don't think a team with Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook will ever compete for a Cup again? Do you think the Leafs are in a better position for the next 7 years? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 In summary:Serge doesn't think the media are very bright, but would like them to say more nice things about the Toronto Maple Leafs. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Also, can we leave the Islanders out of this? Yes they've "tanked", but they've also been mismanaged worse than the Leafs. We're assuming "tanking" with moderately competent management here, the Isles do not fall into that category. See also, Thrashers under Don Waddell. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think the Islanders have a much better foundation than the Leafs...with the possible exception of goaltending. Let's not forget this team is missing two very good players in Streit and Okposo. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think the Islanders have a much better foundation than the Leafs...with the possible exception of goaltending. Let's not forget this team is missing two very good players in Streit and Okposo.How about a mother of all bets..Leafs vs Islanders first to win a cup..$87950 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think the Islanders have a much better foundation than the Leafs...with the possible exception of goaltending. Let's not forget this team is missing two very good players in Streit and Okposo.of all the dumbest things you have said over the last 5 years, this is possibly the dumbest.. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 of all the dumbest things you have said over the last 5 years, this is possibly the dumbest..How about you back up one of your ridiculous arguments with some facts, projections, etc....???????? Link to post Share on other sites
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