What's The Ruling...

[13CARDS 0]

House rules:1. Action out of turn is binding.2. String raises are not allowed.Situation:1-2 No Limit Cash GameHeads up. The river card is dealt.Player 1 (the first to act) has not acted yet.Player 2 (second to act) puts $35 in chips forward.Questions:1. What options does Player 1 have?Can he make a bet that is less than the $35 Player 2 put in?Can he just call?Can he "raise"...putting in more than the $35 Player 2 put in?Can he check?Can he fold?2. What options does Player 2 have if:Player 1 bets $20?Player 1 "calls" the $35?Player 1 bets $10?Player 1 bets $100?Player 1 checks?Player 1 folds?3. Are there any repercussions/penalties/warnings for either player after the hand?

[suicideking 0]

Don't you already know the answer?I would guess that Player one can do whatever he wants, but if he checks, the bet by player 2 would have to stand. And if Player one goes all in, player 2 has to put in the 35 regardless of his decision.

[yeffy 0]

House rules:1. Action out of turn is binding.2. String raises are not allowed.Situation:1-2 No Limit Cash GameHeads up. The river card is dealt.Player 1 (the first to act) has not acted yet.Player 2 (second to act) puts $35 in chips forward.Questions:1. What options does Player 1 have?Can he make a bet that is less than the $35 Player 2 put in? YesCan he just call? He can check and call.Can he "raise"...putting in more than the $35 Player 2 put in? It's not a raise as there is no bet to him yet... but he can check raise or bet a higher ammount which nullifies player twos actionsCan he check? YesCan he fold? Sure but he must then call Jfarell and tell him about it2. What options does Player 2 have if:Player 1 bets $20? Call fold or raise. If player one bets player 2 is not held to his action if player 1 checks his action standsPlayer 1 "calls" the $35? Player 1 can't technically call before the bet is made so player one would have to check, bet stands player one then callsPlayer 1 bets $10? call fold or raisePlayer 1 bets $100? call fold or raisePlayer 1 checks? His bet stands if player 1 checksPlayer 1 folds? winner winner chicken dinner3. Are there any repercussions/penalties/warnings for either player after the hand?Just a reminder not to act out of turn.

[yeffy 0]

Don't you already know the answer?I would guess that Player one can do whatever he wants, but if he checks, the bet by player 2 would have to stand. And if Player one goes all in, player 2 has to put in the 35 regardless of his decision.

This would not be a standard casino ruling. If player one's action is anything other then a check player two is not held to his action.

[A_Bullets_A 0]

This would not be a standard casino ruling. If player one's action is anything other then a check player two is not held to his action.

Doesn't matter. You bet out of turn and you're not getting your money back.

[yeffy 0]

Doesn't matter. You bet out of turn and you're not getting your money back.

Maybe that's how they do things in Canadia but in this country if you want his bet to stand you have to check then if you would like you can raise. But you can't just bet and have his money be in the pot. It's basically the same result just a sensible way of doing things. But I have seen stupid people bet in this situation and have the out of turn bet returned to the player, had they been smart they'd have check raised.From Robert's Rules (basis for many major cardroom rule books)11. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet , call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.

[navybuttons 15]

House rules:1. Action out of turn is binding.2. String raises are not allowed.

there's your problem.that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard.it should only be binding if one person acts out of turn and then there are 2 actions after that.

[yeffy 0]

there's your problem.that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard.it should only be binding if one person acts out of turn and then there are 2 actions after that.

Read what I wrote above, if all out of turn action isnt binding it opens up a huge area for angle shots. Checking out of turn only to bet afterwards, betting out of turn only to check once it's checked to you. It would get really ugly.

[DCJ001 0]

Maybe that's how they do things in Canadia but in this country if you want his bet to stand you have to check then if you would like you can raise. But you can't just bet and have his money be in the pot. It's basically the same result just a sensible way of doing things. But I have seen stupid people bet in this situation and have the out of turn bet returned to the player, had they been smart they'd have check raised.From Robert's Rules (basis for many major cardroom rule books)11. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet , call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.

The op's original scenario was set up in a confused manner with incorrect givens and incorrect possible answers, and Yeffy thinks that there's a place called Canadia. It's not a typo because the "i" is nowhere near the "d" or the "a" on a keyboard.I've seen one or two correct answers. I wonder if the op is quizzing the message board (knowing the answer to his question) or if he really is looking for the correct ruling.

[sloshr 0]

Player 1 can do anything he wants, but he would be a fool not to check, force player 2 to bet, then make his decision, OR see my third paragraph if the rules are strict. This would make the ruling easy.If player 1 does not check, it depends how the house interprets the rule "action out of turn is binding." The rule should specify the action is only binding if he is not facing a new bet, but that is up to the house. If he must complete the bet to $35 if legal, betting less than that would be a waste of time by player 1. Clearly, player 2 can raise if player 1 bets more than $35; the only question is whether he could fold, or if the $35 is in the pot. I say he should be able to fold, but player 1 could just check-raise to make the money stay in.The only interesting play that player 1 could make is to bet around $20, making the $35 bet illegal. Again, this is up to the house whether the money must stay in the pot, but I don't think you can force player 2 to raise to at least $40, otherwise betting $34 would be an angle shot by player 1, ensuring he got paid off at least $68. An interesting ruling is that player 2 could either "call" the short bet, leaving his $35 in and essentially giving player 1 odds, or raise to whatever legal amount he wants. I think, to avoid angle shots, you need to let player 2 take his money back if bet into.I don't see what any of this has to do with string bets.

[Jariso13 1]

Veffy has it right

[fleung22 1]

House rules:1. Action out of turn is binding.2. String raises are not allowed.Situation:1-2 No Limit Cash GameHeads up. The river card is dealt.Player 1 (the first to act) has not acted yet.Player 2 (second to act) puts $35 in chips forward.Questions:1. What options does Player 1 have? all normal optionsCan he make a bet that is less than the $35 Player 2 put in? yes, player 1 has all normal optionsCan he just call? there is nothing to call but he could bet $35 and player 2 would lose option to raiseCan he "raise"...putting in more than the $35 Player 2 put in? player 1 can put any amount including betting $25 which means player 2 now only calls $25Can he check? yesCan he fold? yes2. What options does Player 2 have if:Player 1 bets $20? autocall of $20Player 1 "calls" the $35? autocall of $35Player 1 bets $10? autoraise to $35Player 1 bets $100? call, raise or fold (if folded, the $35 from player 2 goes into the pot)Player 1 checks? autobet of $35Player 1 folds? player 2 scoops 3. Are there any repercussions/penalties/warnings for either player after the hand? player 2 should be given warning

the out of position binding bet is pretty common in my homeland of Canadia ;)I believe it's to prevent angle shooting. Let's be honest, how often do you really see someone get kicked out for playing out of turn? It MUST happen in practically every card game I'm in and even though most of them are unintentional I do know some punks who use it for angle shooting purposes. I'm pretty familiar with the binding bet so this is the general interpretation above in bold. answers are similar as Veffy

[yeffy 0]

The op's original scenario was set up in a confused manner with incorrect givens and incorrect possible answers, and Yeffy thinks that there's a place called Canadia. It's not a typo because the "i" is nowhere near the "d" or the "a" on a keyboard.

Sorry I forgot to add to my usual spelling Canadia the help for the comically challenged:SICor SWps. we want our baseball teams back and kindly keep Celine above the border.

[fleung22 1]

Sorry I forgot to add to my usual spelling Canadia the help for the comically challenged:SICor SWps. we want our baseball teams back and kindly keep Celine above the border.

first of all it's "team" (thank you for getting rid of expos) and whether you like it or not Celine is sickly popular in the U.S...she's certainly sold more records there than in Canada. So blame America on that one.

[13CARDS 0]

Doesn't matter. You bet out of turn and you're not getting your money back.

So, if Player 1 wants to bet out $20 and Player 2 says "Call", Player 2 has to leave in all $35?

[13CARDS 0]

there's your problem.that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard.it should only be binding if one person acts out of turn and then there are 2 actions after that.

That would be difficult in a heads-up situation like I have presented....

[13CARDS 0]

The op's original scenario was set up in a confused manner with incorrect givens and incorrect possible answers...

Really? I think I presented all of the relevant information quite clearly. BTW, I am not sure what incorrect givens are. And all of my possible answers are quite correct.

[13CARDS 0]

I don't see what any of this has to do with string bets.

That is funny considering your answers.The string bet rule comes into play if:Player 1 decides he wants to bet out $20. If Player 2's $35 has to stay in, then it is not enough for a legal raise. To allow Player 2 the option to raise would make it a string raise. And that is not allowed. So Player 2 would get $15 back and his out of turn action would be considered a call.

[13CARDS 0]

the out of position binding bet is pretty common in my homeland of Canadia ;)Questions:1. What options does Player 1 have? all normal optionsCan he make a bet that is less than the $35 Player 2 put in? yes, player 1 has all normal optionsCan he just call? there is nothing to call but he could bet $35 and 1. player 2 would lose option to raiseCan he "raise"...putting in more than the $35 Player 2 put in? player 1 can put any amount including betting $25 which means player 2 now only calls $25Can he check? yesCan he fold? yes2. What options does Player 2 have if:Player 1 bets $20? 2. autocall of $20Player 1 "calls" the $35? autocall of $35Player 1 bets $10? autoraise to $35Player 1 bets $100? call, raise or fold (if folded, the $35 from player 2 goes into the pot)Player 1 checks? autobet of $35Player 1 folds? player 2 scoops

1. Why does Player 2 "lose his option" to raise?2. Why is it an autocall of $20? Why can't Player 2 now raise Player 1's bet of $20?

[simo_8ball 0]

I think player 1 should opt for a bet/fold line for $17.

[jethrodull 0]

whatever the 'house' rules are...player 1 should immediately ask for clarification of what those house rules are before acting after player 2 acted out of turn...J

[KramitDaToad 0]

House rules:1. Action out of turn is binding.

The (out of turn) action of player 2 is effectively betting after player 1 checks. If player 1 bets, player 2 can only call or raise, betting is no longer a valid option.Actions can only be binding if they remain valid.Therefore when it gets to player 2 he must bet $35 if allowed to ie player 1 checks or Farrells (although heads up, betting after an open-Farrell is ghey) otherwise he can do what he wants.

[Dogpatch 2]

I wonder if the op is quizzing the message board (knowing the answer to his question) or if he really is looking for the correct ruling.

I would believe it's just a little puzzle for us, since the OP does run a cardroom.

[DCJ001 0]

TDA rules state:"Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing."If your house rules state " Action out of turn is binding." your house rules should be modified to those in the TDA to protect the integrity of the game.1. What options does Player 1 have? Player 2's action has no bearing on what Player 1 can do. Player 1 can check, bet, or fold. He probably won't fold since there's no action to him.Can he make a bet that is less than the $35 Player 2 put in? Yes.Can he just call? He cannot call because there's no action yet. The out of turn bet does not affect what Player 1 does.Can he "raise"...putting in more than the $35 Player 2 put in? He cannot raise because there's no action yet. The out of turn bet does not affect what Player 1 does.Can he check? He can check because there's no action yet. The out of turn bet does not affect what Player 1 does.Can he fold? He probably won't fold since there's no action to him.2. What options does Player 2 have if:Player 1 bets $20? Fold, or call, or raise.Player 1 "calls" the $35? Player 1 cannot call because there's no action yet. The out of turn bet does not affect what Player 1 does. If layer 1 bets $35, Player 2 can fold, or call, or raise.Player 1 bets $10? Fold, or call, or raise.Player 1 bets $100? Fold, or call, or raise.Player 1 checks? The $35 bet now stands.Player 1 folds? The $35 bet now stands."Action out of turn... will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing."

[GWCGWC 83]

This happens quite often and sometimes it's an angle shot.Player 2's action is binding if player 1 says call or raise. Call=$35 each. Raise=the original out of turn bet is binding and player 1 can raise with impunity. If player 1 doesn't act on the bet, he can have the dealer push the out of turn bet back to player two then it's player 1's turn.Player 2 may be a scum bag and is using this as an out of turn blocking bet. Unless this is some crazy 8.75/17.50 LHE game. If that's the case, then the $35 stays in the pot. period