Qq Deepstacked

[Scott3705 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG+1 (t14156)Hero (t12120)MP2 (t4650)CO (t6365)Button (t7574)SB (t7707)BB (t2345)UTG (t8479)Preflop: Hero is MP1 with q , q . UTG raises to t693, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1500, 5 folds, UTG calls t807.Flop: (t3300) 4 , J , 6 (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets t2500, UTG calls t2500.Turn: (t8300) J (2 players)UTG checks, Hero checks.River: (t8300) 3 (2 players)UTG bets t1500, Hero folds.Final Pot: t830Villian is pretty tag. He hasn't done anything weird and seems to just be trying to play small pots. We're both in the top ten and villian has not tangled with me yet. My image probably very TAG at this point but who knows?

[offset 0]

That fold is disgusting.

[simo_8ball 0]

I don't like your smallish reraise preflop. I think you are better bumping it to $1700.Flop is good. I might check though on occasion.Turn check is good. Win more when ahead, lose less when behind.I call the river all day every day for $1500 getting 5.5/1.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

What are you putting him on A-J, K-J, J-J, 6-6? Just curious.You're getting a really good price to call so I'd lean towards that, but if you have a read enough to muck then thats your decision.This is fairly simliar to my thread... totally read dependant.

[Scott3705 0]

What are you putting him on A-J, K-J, J-J, 6-6? Just curious.You're getting a really good price to call so I'd lean towards that, but if you have a read enough to muck then thats your decision.This is fairly simliar to my thread... totally read dependant.

AA, JJ, & KK. I don't see him here with AJ much given the preflop raise, and never give him AJ after the reraise.

[Scott3705 0]

I don't like your smallish reraise preflop. I think you are better bumping it to $1700.Flop is good. I might check though on occasion.Turn check is good. Win more when ahead, lose less when behind.I call the river all day every day for $1500 getting 5.5/1.

I agree. My reraises in general at this point are a little too small against players i consider TAGS.

[offset 0]

What are you putting him on A-J, K-J, J-J, 6-6? Just curious.You're getting a really good price to call so I'd lean towards that, but if you have a read enough to muck then thats your decision.This is fairly simliar to my thread... totally read dependant.

He only has to be ahead 1/6 times to make a call correct. Villain could easilly be making a blocking bet with TT, 99 or 88. Unless Scott has played thousands of hands with this guy it doesn't even approach being read dependent. It's a mathematical insta-call.

[bdc30 0]

What is this - "I made a hero laydown so give me a fkin cookie" - day in tourney strat?That fold is horrid.

[Scott3705 0]

What is this - "I made a hero laydown so give me a fkin cookie" - day in tourney strat?That fold is horrid.

You really think we're ahead enough here to make a call? What the F*ck could he really play like this?

[offset 0]

You really think we're ahead enough here to make a call? What the F*ck could he really play like this?

See my previous post .

[Scott3705 0]

See my previous post .

i really don't see him playing these this way. If he raised them up preflop, then he called to try to hit a set, which he didn't. I don't think calls the flop a lot to fold the turn considering the bets are still a sizable amount of his stack. (I could be wrong since I haven't been playing tournaments much in the last few months.)

[offset 0]

i really don't see him playing these this way. If he raised them up preflop, then he called to try to hit a set, which he didn't. I don't think calls the flop a lot to fold the turn considering the bets are still a sizable amount of his stack. (I could be wrong since I haven't been playing tournaments much in the last few months.)

It would be extremely weak tight to fold TT on this flop, and I would expect very few players at any level to make that fold. Based on your read he is tight agressive. What range does that put him on preflop? My guess is Ak, AQ, JJ, TT, maybe 99 and lower pocket pairs. I don't expect him to call with AJ. He has shown very little strength and a bet of 1500 is very weak. I don't think he has anything more than a pair because he would have bet more with a hand he was really confident about. I think he most likely has TT and is throwing out a blocking bet. Honestly, I think you are ahead more that 50% of the time here, but you only need to be ahead 13% of the time to call.I could be wrong about this, but I think you made the same mistake that I make all the time. Even though the math makes sense, he either has you beat or he doesn't and it feels like it's a waste of money to call. It's hard to guess at the chance of being ahead in the moment because it feels like either 100% or 0% and since it feels like 100% you fold. Or maybe I'm just a rambling idiot, but I'm positive it's a call.

[Kid DynOmite 0]

He only has to be ahead 1/6 times to make a call correct. Villain could easilly be making a blocking bet with TT, 99 or 88. Unless Scott has played thousands of hands with this guy it doesn't even approach being read dependent. It's a mathematical insta-call.

Well put, sir. I've final tabled 3/6 of the 20s that i've played. the play his weak and people will make bets like this without the jack all the time. I would hear some warning horns, but you got to call...

[XXEddie 0]

I just threw up....no jokeIm raising more preflop, villian has too big of a stack to mess around with. But why..WHY fold the river for 1500, if he shoves, I could see a fold possibly, but to fold for 1500...thats so weakthats 5.5/1Youre trying to tell me you aren't around 2 outta 11 times??

[StupidKid 0]

I raise it up more preflop also Anywhere between 1.7=2.1K is fineThe river fold is pretty much horrible.I think you're givin him too much credit for a hand, My range for villain is like 99+, AQs+, AKo.Board: 4s 6c Jh Jd 3cDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 30.682% 29.55% 01.14% 78 3.00 { 99+, AQs+, AKo }Hand 1: 69.318% 68.18% 01.14% 180 3.00 { QQ }Obviously it's a profitable call here.If we tighten it up to TT+ and AKo/s then it's still a profitable call. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 37.500% 36.11% 01.39% 78 3.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }Hand 1: 62.500% 61.11% 01.39% 132 3.00 { QQ }Even if we tighten it up to jus TT+ it's still the right call. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 67.500% 65.00% 02.50% 78 3.00 { TT+ }Hand 1: 32.500% 30.00% 02.50% 36 3.00 { QQ }I think JJ+ is a vvvvv tight range. I'm essentially checking on the turn to get a weaker hand to bet the river for me as well as a sort of pot control measure. Instal call river.

[Scott3705 0]

As i foreward to this post, i did not fold this hand althought everythin in me wanted to. Ultimately the "correct" math decision got me. I called and he showed AA.However, I really have seen some horrendous analysis of this hand here. (Granted I'm not generally a tournament player and maybe tournament players just play that much worse than cash game players. Not intended at anyone in this forum, more meaning that I'm giving too much credit to villian.)

I think you're givin him too much credit for a hand, My range for villain is like 99+, AQs+, AKo.Board: 4s 6c Jh Jd 3cDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 30.682% 29.55% 01.14% 78 3.00 { 99+, AQs+, AKo }Hand 1: 69.318% 68.18% 01.14% 180 3.00 { QQ }Obviously it's a profitable call here.

Is he ever at the river with AQ and AK? Yikes.

If we tighten it up to TT+ and AKo/s then it's still a profitable call. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 37.500% 36.11% 01.39% 78 3.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }Hand 1: 62.500% 61.11% 01.39% 132 3.00 { QQ }

Yikes again with the AK's. really? For some reason, i just never think i'm against jj-.

It would be extremely weak tight to fold TT on this flop, and I would expect very few players at any level to make that fold.

Really? We flip positions and give me TT in his spot, i'm C/Fing the flop almost always. I'm only beating AK and he's going to get 2 free cards to draw out. I really had not involved myself at all at this point without a big hand, so I really think he's giving me AK and JJ at the worst here preflop.

I think JJ+ is a vvvvv tight range.

Equity against JJ+?Again, I did not fold this hand, but i really think i'm never beating anything here. I would think TT has value at the river and would rather see a free showdown against AK. Block bet... C/C, it's all the same except you never fold the best hand with the second one.Edit: Agree with everyone preflop... I need to work on this. I always post flop a one bet decision though.And thanks for everyone for saying you threw up with the river call. it makes me feel like I'm not a complete donkey for calling off on this hand.

[StupidKid 0]

As i foreward to this post, i did not fold this hand althought everythin in me wanted to. Ultimately the "correct" math decision got me. I called and he showed AA.However, I really have seen some horrendous analysis of this hand here. (Granted I'm not generally a tournament player and maybe tournament players just play that much worse than cash game players. Not intended at anyone in this forum, more meaning that I'm giving too much credit to villian.)Is he ever at the river with AQ and AK? Yikes. Yikes again with the AK's. really? For some reason, i just never think i'm against jj-.Really? We flip positions and give me TT in his spot, i'm C/Fing the flop almost always. I'm only beating AK and he's going to get 2 free cards to draw out. I really had not involved myself at all at this point without a big hand, so I really think he's giving me AK and JJ at the worst here preflop. Equity against JJ+?Again, I did not fold this hand, but i really think i'm never beating anything here. I would think TT has value at the river and would rather see a free showdown against AK. Block bet... C/C, it's all the same except you never fold the best hand with the second one.Edit: Agree with everyone preflop... I need to work on this. I always post flop a one bet decision though.And thanks for everyone for saying you threw up with the river call. it makes me feel like I'm not a complete donkey for calling off on this hand.

You don't think he ever floats flop with AK? meh.Obv our equity against JJ+ is horrendous because we're never ahead there.I don't think any advice is horrendous here, nothing in poker is clear cut. Calling someone's advice horrendous doesn't really encourage discussion.If you genuinely put him on a range of JJ+ you have to fold river.

[offset 0]

And thanks for everyone for saying you threw up with the river call. it makes me feel like I'm not a complete donkey for calling off on this hand.

You would have to be a complete donkey to fold the river. You only have to be ahead 13% of the time. You're giving him way too much credit if you think he has trips or better almost 90% of the time.

[Scott3705 0]

You would have to be a complete donkey to fold the river. You only have to be ahead 13% of the time. You're giving him way too much credit if you think he has trips or better almost 90% of the time.

I think he has better than trips like 1% of the time when he's flopped quads... after that I think he has two pair QQ through AA 85.9%, and I guess I think he's played 1010 or AK like a donkey 13.1% of the time since I called.(or brilliantly if it had folded me.)

You don't think he ever floats flop with AK? meh.

After a reraise preflop and a fairly sizeable c-bet on the flop, no I don't think he ever floats AK. Like I said, I'm just getting back into tournaments though. Are tournament players retarded enough to float AK and C/F the turn? Really? Obv our equity against JJ+ is horrendous because we're never ahead there.

I don't think any advice is horrendous here, nothing in poker is clear cut. Calling someone's advice horrendous doesn't really encourage discussion.

I'm sorry for this comment, but I stick by it to some extent when I see AK and AQ unpaired in ranges put through stove at the river trying to convince me it's a mathematically correct to call, that's just really bad. I guess the 1010 range is somewhat arguable since offset has put it out there, but I thought this player was a pretty decent player and would not expect him to donk up 1010 like this. But that's my read though i guess which is hard to communicate on a board some times.

[throwemaway 0]

Whats the buy in? If its a 4 dollar buy in, more of a case can be made for calling the river vs a 20 dollar buy in

[offset 0]

I guess the 1010 range is somewhat arguable since offset has put it out there, but I thought this player was a pretty decent player and would not expect him to donk up 1010 like this. But that's my read though i guess which is hard to communicate on a board some times.

I don't see a decent player donking up AA or KK like this preflop. The hand doesn't make much sense when we assume he's a pretty decent player. I am always hesitant to put any sort of extra read on someone just because he seems to be tight aggressive. It's a horrendous fold given the pot odds. Yes, I do think we see might this play with a weaker hand like TT more in tournaments than cash, but I would still call in a cash game if I didn't have a really really good read. My brain's turning to jello discussing this hand ad nauseum (sp). Everyone has said that you should call, except for one or two who are on the fence. Either stop being so damn stubborn or search me on pokerstars and let's play heads up .

[StupidKid 0]

In the longrun I'm fairly sure this is a call to be honest.OP seems to be convinced its JJ+ only though so in which case this is permanently a fold and there isn't even any real need to post or discuss the issue./thread

[AaronHoward 0]

this is definitely a call.. there is no way i fold this for that price ever, and with ur pre flop re raise ur just giving villain the right price to suck out on you .. i'd probably make it 2.6k not 1500

[Scott3705 0]

I don't see a decent player donking up AA or KK like this preflop. The hand doesn't make much sense when we assume he's a pretty decent player. I am always hesitant to put any sort of extra read on someone just because he seems to be tight aggressive. It's a horrendous fold given the pot odds. Yes, I do think we see might this play with a weaker hand like TT more in tournaments than cash, but I would still call in a cash game if I didn't have a really really good read. My brain's turning to jello discussing this hand ad nauseum (sp). Everyone has said that you should call, except for one or two who are on the fence. Either stop being so damn stubborn or search me on pokerstars and let's play heads up .

He has me isolated preflop. AA UTG raises and a non-laggish, non-late position reraiser comes in for a reraise, he's got to have my holdings as a big pair or AK. it's not like he's deathly afraid of 546 or 9810 type flops, so why couldn't he smooth call? If i were him, I wouldn't want to scare away any action and there'd be only a few types of flops that I would kick myself in the *** for not reraising preflop. then again, I'm not him. His flop is weird, but i can only assume he was looking to get me committed at the turn and missed a C/R. I really don't think his line is that ridiculous considering stacks. We're deepstacked in terms of we're both tournament healthy, but we're not deepstacked in a cash game type of definition. Very good point about the extra read cause he seems tight aggressive. Maybe he was just extremely card dead. I'll give up on this hand, now. I haven't found a real compelling reason to call except that it just seems right to...which is why I called and why i leak really bad on the river I guess.