Chips Concealed

[rog 0]

From Robert's rules of poker:"Awareness of the amount being in play for each opponent is an important part of poker. All chips and money must be kept in plain view."So, were they in "plain view"? If not, they shouldn't play.

[Royal_Tour 0]

He's holding his highest denomination chips, which is a lot different than shuffling some white.What's the appropriate penalty if any? I don't know. I'm leaning toward ruling that the chips were not in play, but I'd feel much more comfortable saying that if I had watched the way the chips were manipulated.

its the full amount.. He owes him the full amount of chips he called off when he said "all in".Its the reason why I, (or anyone) should ask for a quick count before saying all in. Or even just a quick, can u move your hands please, so u can see the chips.he cant take them off the table, but he can hold them under his hand if he wants.The casino asks you to keep your large denomination chips visible to avoid headaches like these, but its your own fault if u say all in without knowing how much you will be investing.and also, the "i put you all in" thing drives me phucking nuts

[dapokerbum 0]

I was alone in supporting Magnus' stance that he shouldn't have to pay up; I saw Magnus look at George's stack, size it up, then say 'all-in'. Because Magnus and I were outnumbered - and the 'house' was a player agreeing with George - Magnus had to pay up. I probably would have refused in Magnus' place and been thrown out of the game...In response to some comments about whether George was looking to shoot an angle or not, George picked up his chips preflop and was playing with them above the table, not on it (Magnus wasn't paying attention to him), but any visibility or sound of chips stopped after he saw the flop - so Magnus was unaware of their presence. I think it was a chip trick, stopped by flopping a strong hand, rather than anything more sinister, but I'm basing my judgement on what I've seen of him, which is no other behaviour that would cause me to distrust him. I'll pay more attention to his conduct at the table in the future, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this occasion as he's proven himself a man of his word in the past. We did make it a point that chips should remain on the table and visible in future, but home games are always lax on such fronts. If it weren't for the softness of that game (2 beautiful fish; one a weak player, the other a degenerate gambling maniac who has lost £1k in 3 nights, at a game with a max buy-in of £100) I would avoid it, but it's easier pickings than my casino table.

Magnus Loses! Should pay more attention especially to the fact there was a tell that he missed in that he stopped shuffling after the flop.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Was his hand off the table? Because if he was holding his chips in his hand off of the table, then they aren't in play.

Complete and total nonsense.Folks have to realize that the "chips stay in play" rule cuts both ways. The guy couldn't remove those chips even if he had wanted to do so. Just because they are in his hand DOESN'T remove them from the table and therefore from play. If he'd lost "all in" those chips would have been shipped to the winner. He can't hold them and then say they were not in play.When you say the words "all in" you are committing YOUR stack, not those of your opponent. Be sure of how much you are risking before pushing. Ask for a count. Say the amount you want to risk. Pay attention.

[ObeyTheDog 0]

No way would I make Magnus pay the full amount in a homegame, and I think most casinos would rule in Magnus' favor.If chips are concealed off the table....ah why repeat it.But yeah, if Magnus lost the pot, you think those chips are going in?My real question is: When the bets were declared and called, why wasn't the pot made right? At least then, we could have known his intentions before the cards were turned up and then it'd easier to rule in George's favor.

[FourFlusher 0]

The "highly competitive brothers" weren't the Kray Brothers, were they?

[psujohn 0]

But yeah, if Magnus lost the pot, you think those chips are going in?

And how exactly would he benefit from hanging on to those chips? Unless he rebuys and sneaks them in later it's not going to matter. He can't exactly walk to the "cage" and cash them in. He can't exactly call all-in and then magically produce some more chips. He'd have to go through some tricky slight of hand to take the chips off and then get them back on the table. All a bit much to suspect that someone is doing this intentionally in this environment.

[Royal_Tour 0]

No way would I make Magnus pay the full amount in a homegame, and I think most casinos would rule in Magnus' favor.If chips are concealed off the table....ah why repeat it.But yeah, if Magnus lost the pot, you think those chips are going in?My real question is: When the bets were declared and called, why wasn't the pot made right? At least then, we could have known his intentions before the cards were turned up and then it'd easier to rule in George's favor.

they werent off the table

[seemorenuts 0]

I asked Doyle and he said in his day there'd be blood and brains sprayed onto the back wall if that happened. "Castrate them both and then shoot them through the head," he'd say.I must bring up this old story once again, posted long ago:I was at Rama playing a 20/40 LHE game and this old multimillionaire was all in while palming a $500 chip against me.The dealer spotted it. Some people have no shame, the geezer used to own Consumer's Distributing, a catalogue retail company that people in the GTA would remember in the 60s to 80s.