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answer20

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  1. Flatting would be tough since he can fire at almost any Flop and you are still stuck in a bloated pot with no additional knowledge unless you hit a 9. Obv one spot where being OOP is an advantage to your opponent if they can get the last bet in PF. You need a pretty good read on this player to flat here, even IP, IMO. Folding/shoving ... TT/99 are usually the tilting point for most tournament players when it comes to shoving. I think the raise size is interesting since it still leaves your opponent room to fold to a shove as it gives off a hint of weakness but at the same time could be a trap trying to get you to shove into the pot. You are probably still in a spot of the structure to build your stack back up and you arent that close to the money yet. If you win you can probably coast to the money, if you lose you have a nice sized shoving stack to rebuild with. You may also need to consider what type of table you are at ... can you push the table around with a short stack or will you have to wait for a premium hand to shove and double up with the 'fear' that you will blind off before you can do that? You have a coin flip holding in a coin flip spot ... If you can withstand the wrath of Phil Hellmuth (win or lose) if you shove and this isnt the only tournament you are playing for awhile then I think this is a good spot to shove. And yes .. I would open smaller so flatting doesnt hurt your stack as much .. maybe 8800 from MP .. GL
  2. A few things missing here ... what kind of tournament? sit-n-go or multi-table? My guess is sit-n-go ... What were the blinds at the time? As far as the play ... It was a move that you were supposed to fold to this early in the tournament with no reads on your opponent. You didnt have chips to spare as you would be (and were) left with less than 200 if you lose. You very well couldve (shouldve) been dominated by AA/KK/QQ/AK in this spot. This is what the player was trying to make you think by shoving and probably in 90% of these spots you will be up against at least a pocket pair. Do you really want to (at best) flip for basically your whole stack 10 hands into a tournament? In a sit-n-go scenario when blinds go up fairly quick you generally cant wait around for premium hands so you do end up in coin flip situations earlier than most tournaments but you got very lucky to be ahead in this spot. A lot of players will try to double up early or 'go home' in these types of tournaments where the blinds go up quickly. As far as the all-in by V1 .. He was assuming that he had 'clear' outs and was getting (almost?) 3 to 1 on his already diminished chips stack so his call/shove here was probably close to being a good 'math' call. He was getting into the hand knowing he was probably behind but hoping to suck out and triple up to get back into the tournament. Both players were making 'moves' that can make sense in a one-table tournament, but I wouldnt really call the initial shove a 'pro' move with the short stack behind. If V1 was not in a blind then its possibly ok, but V2 is still risking at least 50% of his stack in a flip or worse if called, he is NEVER ahead here. I have played in quite a few one-table tournaments and I have never really tried this kind of aggressive play enough to know if it should be considered 'standard'. I usually just sit back and wait for the table to get down to 4 or 5 before I would be attempting this type of play. This attitude is probably what this type of player counts on so they can get some 'free' chips and then have a bigger stack than mine when we do need to flip. GL
  3. Welcome to the site ... as far as your comments ... 1) This player got lucky, yes .. and he was boasting about it for some reason after hitting a one-outer but the thread quickly got out of hand and off topic. It evolved into an 'overall' skill level of play rather than focusing on this hand directly. He had a plan for the hand AND IT WASNT hitting trips on the Flop, it was using a read on an opponent in an attempt to steal a pot on a board that didnt favor the opponent. The hand never got to that point since he did hit trips and (thankfully) hit quads on the Turn or he wouldve been hurtin' for chips for certin' 2) Some ppl can only play in one room, thus they do get to know the regs ... there is actually more skill required to be a winning player playing against regs than playing against new players all the time IMO. Granted this doesnt really help you develop sensing tells and reads as much since you are watching the same ppl most of the time and can get lulled to sleep a bit. 3) During a tournament it is wise to 'try' things against opponents to see how they might react to this situation later when chips are more critical. These types of moves can be considered 'donk' types of moves but are worth your while to accumulate infomation against an unknown opponent. IMO the OP was just bragging about a lucky hit and then things got out of hand. He never got to 'try' what he wanted to try in the hand due to the lucky board. My thought process is that you need to have a plan every time you put in chips, sometimes you never get to execute your plan due to the board that comes out. He had a plan and got a lucky board ... but the 2 are totally unrelated and thats where the thread fell apart. GL
  4. 2 of last 5 ME winners from Michigan!! And the state Gaming Control Board is attacking the charity rooms that we play in. Too bad ... build us a casino on the west side of the state so we can play without driving 2 hours please!! Played with a regular at Ryan's room in my room last night. And of course he said he wasn't that impressed with him. But when we continued our conversation at the differences of cash v tournaments we both conclude that we play much different. It seems Ryan has figured out a tournament style that works and has made a quick parlay of his previous circuit success. For sure running good has a big effect on the result, but you have to admit that he ran Farber over HU even when he lost a few hands in there. Farber didn't play the best either, certainly missing out on a couple of spots that most wouldve played differently. Its all in the moment. GL
  5. What are you representing PF with 32? The first caller only has to call 22 into 50+ and anyone after that is that much more priced in. If you are going to 3-bet, then do it!! A larger 3-bet will also make it easier for you to fold to a 4-bet ... unless they think you are loose loose with this move and 4-betting you light. Forget your holdings for this move, but do it with a meaningful sized bet so you can take it down or cross fingers (that would be the time to worry about your holdings). I agree this is a much better move with 98/97 than K10 ... This is a great board and yet you have nothing, yet!! The side is so small that I probably flat here and let the other guy shove or just shove the next street. If the side was a bit bigger then I would want to be a bit more aggressive and min-riase to start the side pot before the other player can just take advantage of the odds to call into the main and fold if he misses the Turn or you hit your fush and are forced to bet out on Turn. Ok move, need bigger bet though ... Better than you deserve Flop and yet you have nothing ... Stacks are too small to fold here ... and yet you are only calling with at best 2nd nuts potential and runner runner draws. You may have been up, but hopefully you see that one hand like this can ruin a session in a hurry ... GL
  6. Comes down to the table dynamic for sure ... You had the original (early position raiser) and another caller (less worried about) behind your cold call of a 3-bet. If either of these players would 'most' likely 4-bet this with a large portion of their opening/PF range then you are buring up money and will end up folding PF. The focus on set flopping odds here is a bit skewed IMO. You flop a set about once every 9 pocket pairs. In this hand ... at this table ... with these players ... would you get paid off when you actually do hit a set. Is either the B or UTG+ a nit with a narrow range of hands that wont pay you off if the board misses them ... or even if the board is coordinated and they have an overpair. Are we EVER getting 9 to 1 to set mine, no. A set is an implied odds hand and you need to consider how the rest of the money you need to make when you make your hand will get into the pot. If it is unlikely that the money will go in, then you are either calling to steal the pot somehow or mucking since this is a -EV play ... in this situation. On 'another' hand .. are YOU good enough to fold your set if you play this against a NIT on B/UTG and they play their hand like KK? This is another reason to not even get involved in this hand against the 'right' type of player who opens or 3-bets. GL
  7. Flop play comes down to your history. I you had done some non-cbetting in the past then its ok to use the Ace as a scare card and check/call the Flop. If you 'almost always' cbet, then it does look strong to c/c the Flop. 'Knowing' that he is going to bet is fine as well ... but I still think it's more about you than him here on the Flop. Nothing wrong with hiding the strenght of your hand for one street OOP. On the Turn the check/call is going to look fairly strong so I would probably opt for the min-raise here. He has around 415 behind? So you need to give him decent odds to continue the hand since you are smashing all but 2 holdings (AA/44). Although I do tend to see most shoves as a bit more bluffy/drawing than most players ... what message are you sending him here? Are you drawing to a flush into a now more scary paired board? Probably not ... Your message here is either 'go-away' or 'pay dearly to continue'. Not much incentive to put chips into the pot even at 2.5 to 1. As I said, I like the min raise since you are going to lead the River anyway (unless an Ace hits) so get the chips into the pot now when he still has some hope to improve his hand or may put the rest in on his own accord. GL
  8. This was bound to happen ... and it just happened sooner rather than later. The all-in reaction is a bit much but DN can get emotional very quickly as we know. He couldve just left and blinded off for a bit. But with this being a re-entry (?) I can see this reaction coming to the surface as well. DN (and others) have been very vocal about this rule and with it happening to someone soundly against it a major battle shouldve been expected. Question? Don't casinos have cameras? Floor couldve reviewed footage and actually helped create a better ruling here for all to learn from. Next should be a boundry line on the floor so players know where their piece of the pie is ... stretching legs certinaly has to be 'allowed' whereas 'paying attention' to the deal is irrelevant to this rule as it's up to the player to know whats going on at the table. I wouldnt have expected the other players to get involved unless the floor asked them to ... which is taboo for the floor to do anyway. It is between the player, dealer and floor. I have trouble with this ... especially when the stories are being presented to the floor without full detail or incorrectly to support their side of a potential ruling. At charity 1-2 I want folks to have a good experience and learn at the same time. GL
  9. I dont know that you would ever bet on someone to win this event. Maybe just making final table. That would leave more room for some variance while considering the 'advantage' that one player may have over the average player. Of course any bet is supposed to take those type of factors into consideration. What's great about these bets is that the booking agent may not have to pay anyone!! Football dont work that way ...
  10. Battle of the Blinds ... How does your opponent view your c-bet? As just a c-bet or something a little more solid? Would you see a raise from AQ PF or more likely here on the Flop? I dont mind the raise PF, but when you see a call and aggression on the Flop you are really in a tough spot here OOP against most opponents I would think. Sure you could call and see a Turn, what do you do if the 2s hits and you get raised or bet into big? There are so many bad cards, even a K, that can hit the Turn that you would have to 'barrel' through with no kicker. Your decisions here have to be based on opponent image and opponent's image of you. Against someone you have some history against this very well could be a good spot to follow through (cheaply going forward) but against an unknown you have to choose how much you want to pay for the information. I also agree that if you are more inclined to fold in these spots that it would be better to keep the pots smaller by limping in, nothing wrong with having a K in your pocket. I probably would be more likely to continue the hand if I had limped as opposed to the hand AP. GL
  11. B/F is a great to look at this situation. My first thought was to put yourself IP more often since its where you are most comfortable betting these tough Rivers. Of course you cant always do that and need to try to play well from every position. Another way to get more value if you are uncomfortable on the River is to bet more on Flop and Turn so the pot is 'big enough' going into the River that you wont feel shorted if it checks through. Another way to do this would be to check through more Turns OOP and then bet out on River even if its a scare card. Every time you give an opponent a free card doesn't mean you missed out on value and there is something to be said for pot control if you are in an uncomfortable position or the board is a bit scary. I see TONS of Turns get checked through in tournament hand histories, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good play for cash 'most of the time'. Regulars will pick up any pattern you present to them, so mix things up. Betting out is the only way to get value. Once you feel comfortable betting out, then all you have to do is start to regulate your bet sizing to get the max call from weaker holdings. GL
  12. Typical survey ... asking the same questions differnently to gage similar responses. Survey results are always interesting ... Enjoy is you please.
  13. Apparently most of you didn't know that Stu Ungar and Chip Reese were living a double life ... I certainly didn't ...
  14. On the main hand in question here ... yes, the BB wants to lead out or just smooth the raise and see what happens in both cases. This is a very dangerous board with 'just' one pair and only 6 cards that can help you improve if you are behind. I folded both AA and KK in other hands yesterday post-Flop ... and was right in both cases. I may be giving a 'results' orientated remarks, but I was 'in the zone' yesterday but trying to keep myself in check for the next session.
  15. Big time 'Thank you' to this hand as I just won a very nice pot yesterday with similar action. I held QsJh in late position .. 1-2NL (plays more like 2-5) ... I opened ($550 stack)for $12 and was raised by Button ($200 stack, VERY TIGHT) to $30 and then the SB ($475, VERY LOOSE) and I flat. Flop is KsQcJs ... SB and I check and Button puts out $75, SB smooths. I pause while putting SB on a draw, maybe combo draw. He didn't isolate Button pre-Flop as I think he would have with me in the hand. He was very tilty from losing an $800 stack a short time ago also. The Button was a harder choice since I can only put him on AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AK from pre-Flop action. From his larger than normal Flop bet size though I put him on AA or AK, not a set. Even though the flush draw was out there I knew this opponent doesn't put much stock in people drawing to flushes to the point where he (as we all shoud I guess) encourages people to try and draw out on him. So I decide to isolate Button and take my chances with SB in a side pot by shoving. Button kinda grumbles but calls and SB insta-calls!! Thought I might be in trouble, but both reads were spot on as Button turned AKd and SB turned over A8s. All 3 of us agreed to run it twice as this was a fairly large pot. The first board blanked out so I was in the clear and the 2nd board Rivered an Ace for a chop of the main, but I took all of the side from SB. I was actually thinking about this discussion during my thought process after the Flop. Putting it into the odds calculator I see I am only 45% to win it all and 60% to win the side going to the Turn so it was quite a big 'flip' but I was priced into the main very nicely and a favorite for the side. On the outside looking in it was probably a pretty silly move on my end, but I went with my pyhsical reads to narrow their ranges and was right (this time). Any thoughts on this one??
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