Money022 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I tried converting this but it didn't take since it was only a portion of the HH.This is not a hand I played but one that's being discussed elsewhere on a smaller forum. I was challenged to post this here because apparently you guys are going to agree with the single player who is disagreeing with the majority.UTG+1 makes a standard raise and get's mini-raised by the SB. UTG+1 hits TP/TK and the villian leads for about 1/4 the pot. What would your move be if you were UTG+1 with position. Would you be folding, calling and re-evaluating on the turn, or raising to find out if TP/TK was good?Stage #871036046: Holdem No Limit $0.25 - 2008-01-10 10:51:56 (ET)Table: FOXHALL DR (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealerSeat 4 - BARREND ($19.15 in chips)Seat 5 - REDER03 ($18.70 in chips)Seat 6 - HAISET ($19.50 in chips)Seat 1 - 16HSGMA3933 ($21.60 in chips)Seat 2 - 00TIMH ($22.75 in chips)Seat 3 - KLOPPO05 ($10.25 in chips)REDER03 - Posts small blind $0.10HAISET - Posts big blind $0.25*** POCKET CARDS ***Dealt to 00TIMH [Qc Ah] 16HSGMA3933 - Folds00TIMH - Raises $1 to $1KLOPPO05 - FoldsBARREND - FoldsREDER03 - Raises $1.90 to $2HAISET - Folds00TIMH - Calls $1*** FLOP *** [7d Qd 4s]REDER03 - Bets $100TIMH - ???? Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Call. Raise the turn when villain bets out $1 again and watch him fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 ^what he saidRaising to 'find out where you're at' is kind of pointless here Link to post Share on other sites
ah2388 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 agreed flat the flop, and for me its close to flatting the turn and then raising the river and just raising the turn Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Thanks for the replies so far guys. Would any of you like to elaborate on your reasoning for just flat calling? I know Sheiky mentioned raising to find out where you're at would be stupid. Any other reasons though? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 raising 'for info' is the only reason to raise¿¿?? Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 raising 'for info' is the only reason to raise¿¿??Yeah, if raising is an option, what is the reason for doing so? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Yeah, if raising is an option, what is the reason for doing so?Value, and to not let blocker bets buy cheap cards, and gaining control while in position.If i was checked to I would have bet around $4, and his bet is so puny making it $4 to go is still an option Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 not raising this flop bet is a mistake. take control don't let anything have a chance for basically a free card. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 What are you putting the villian on 3 betting light preflop?It seems to me the villian either has a legitimate hand like AA/KK, or something like JJ/TT/AK. We're either way behind, or have the villian drawing to 2 or 3 outs. Wouldn't we limit our losses to an overpair by calling the flop and letting his action on the turn give us a better read as to his strength. At the same time if it's a hand we're beating then we're in a dominant lead, and will allow him to make a mistake on the turn or river? Raising only folds out weaker hands and reduces our value. If we raise then we're getting called or reraised and will be shutting down. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 What are you putting the villian on 3 betting light preflop?It seems to me the villian either has a legitimate hand like AA/KK, or something like JJ/TT/AK. We're either way behind, or have the villian drawing to 2 or 3 outs. Wouldn't we limit our losses to an overpair by calling the flop and letting his action on the turn give us a better read as to his strength. At the same time if it's a hand we're beating then we're in a dominant lead, and will allow him to make a mistake on the turn or river? Raising only folds out weaker hands and reduces our value. If we raise then we're getting called or reraised and will be shutting down.i put villian basically on almost anything. suited nectors, any pair, Ax etc.value is probably one of the most misunderstood poker terms. are u really gonna have value with ur hand vs JJ, TT, AK, etc? we are in position let's use it. ur gonna wanna scream if turn is a K or T or J and you end up losing this hand for not raising. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 If the villian is on JJ/TT then they're drawing to two outs. If they're on AK then they're drawing to 3. I think there's not a lot of danger there. And if you raise with them being on either of those hands, then you're making it fairly easy for them to cut it loose when you're in a dominate lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I agree with most in this hand.i would just calll the flop since we have position, and wait to see what goes down on the turnthere is a slight chance this is the case queen. i've seen it happen too many times to want to pump this flop right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 not raising this flop bet is a mistake. take control don't let anything have a chance for basically a free card.if we're ahead, we are way ahead. we can play this hand safely OOP by giving an extra card. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 i ignore the donk bet, make my standard c bet, and make villain pay to see the next card. you're raising for value and if he folds, that's fine too. you're not looking for ak to make tiny bets and calls so you can get a little extra pocket change. You've got TPTK and you're playing 25NL, you can't be afraid of AA and KK so often you only win small pots when you're way ahead. At 25NL you should be betting top pair, and on the turn if you still have top pair, and on the river, if you have top pair. Why? Villain can show up with second or third pair, or a pocket pair he didn't hit a set with and is too stubborn to fold. When he starts raising you, then you can slow down. Link to post Share on other sites
00timh 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thought I would make this my first post as this was my hand. I raised to $3 and Villain couldn't find the fold button fast enough. My thoughts were that I wanted to play the hand strong enough to elliminate any avenues for bluffing. I find the light 3-bets at least at NL25 to be a convienient tool for many to justify any play on later streets. Now at least I would put Villian on a strong hand should he even call. My one thought was that if I just flat called the flop he could then lead out big on the turn and then what? I didn't feel strong enough to deal with a ck raise on the turn either. I figured I would bet my hand as it was and then go from there. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 A $4 pot with a $1 bet? Raise. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 if we're ahead, we are way ahead. we can play this hand safely OOP by giving an extra card.disagree. ur acting like we flopped a set here and villian is drawing dead. pot is already 26BBs. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 if we're ahead, we are way ahead. we can play BLOW ANY VALUE this hand HAS safely OOP by giving an extra card. Link to post Share on other sites
00timh 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 A good case can be made for calling the flop bet. However, I did feel that raising light was the correct play. It still leaves room for villian to call and for me to get off the hand. It leaves room for villian to continue to slow play and for me to catch another card. What I did feel I was doing was to not allow Villian to play this hand however they wanted OOP. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Nice blog, BTW, Money Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 Nice blog, BTW, MoneyWhy thank you. I just started updating it again now that I'm putting in a decent amount of hours/hands. I didn't play all that much the last few months of 2007. I'm all rested up and ready to play now. Thanks for stopping in. Link to post Share on other sites
KennyMatch 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i think most people favour a raise on the flop and I would - Don't want to see the flush hit for one.I am more interested though in what the people on the other forum were saying. You seemed to suggest that there were some strange viewpoints.Do tell Link to post Share on other sites
00timh 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 i think most people favour a raise on the flop and I would - Don't want to see the flush hit for one.I am more interested though in what the people on the other forum were saying. You seemed to suggest that there were some strange viewpoints.Do tellIt was about 50/50 whether to raise or call. I also ran this hand on another forum pokerlistings that has a few real passive players on there and the responses were mostly that I was walking into a monster. One person felt I shouldn't have called the 3 bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 It was about 50/50 whether to raise or call. I also ran this hand on another forum pokerlistings that has a few real passive players on there and the responses were mostly that I was walking into a monster. One person felt I shouldn't have called the 3 bet.Nice to see you on FCP TimThese guys are a lot more blunt/harsh than the other forum, but everyone means well and there's a lot of solid players here Link to post Share on other sites
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