$5 Nine Man Sng

[Yahkin 0]

SB seems solid, he doubled on the second hand when he flopped a set of A's against AK. It's early, so my reads are weak.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button (t1400)SB (t2565)Hero (t1740)UTG (t1550)UTG+1 (t1785)MP1 (t1540)MP2 (t1255)CO (t1665)Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A. 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t120, 4 folds, SB calls t105, Hero calls t90.Flop: (t360) 7, T, 6(3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t30, SB calls t30, Hero calls t30.Turn: (t450) Q(3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t150, SB calls t150, Hero raises to t600, UTG+1 folds, SB calls t450.River: (t1800) Q(2 players)SB checks, Hero ???When the Q came, I got very excited. I didn't even see the completed flush draw until he checked. Alarms started going off. Why would he call a turn reraise and then check the river??? The second Q really reduces the chances that he is holding one as well.Minimize my risk and check behind here, or put in a value bet with the trips?

[Zach6668 513]

Does anyone reraise a bit more on the turn?There's 750 in the pot, and our raise is only 450...I probably check the river down.

[jmbreslin 0]

Would anyone lead the flop here?

[Zach6668 513]

Would anyone lead the flop here?

Why?

[rog 0]

I don't lead this flop. I probably raise a little more but to 600 seems okay too. I check behind on the river. I dont think we're beating much that's calling...KQ maybe.

[jmbreslin 0]

Why?

A little stop-n-go action to test UTG+1? Or not. I was just asking.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

A little stop-n-go action to test UTG+1? Or not. I was just asking.

A little leading into an early position raiser with no pair no draw?Bad idea.

[mjd 0]

This early, I ditch AQo to an EP raiser.I check this river against a perceived good player and value bet the donks. Though, I don't raise a river bet. Only call if it's affordable. I think hard if someone opens the river big.-M

[Zach6668 513]

A little stop-n-go action to test UTG+1? Or not. I was just asking.

I do it if I feel like spewing wildly.

[tripdeuces 0]

No reason not to value bet here. If you think your opponent is capable of a check raise on the river ( which is an awesome play btw) then a half size pot bet would work to accomplish everything you need to gain in the hand. Also i would also lead the turn

[Yahkin 0]

I checked behind and Villain turned over the King high flush.Incidentally, that check helped me steal chips like mad from him later because of the amount of respect he gave me the rest of the way. :)Took 2nd when my 9k chips were sucked away by 3 consecutive runner runner suckouts by a real donk. Gotta love poker.

[SlackerInc 0]

I would check behind. There's the FH to worry about as well! But maybe I'm being a wuss (I haven't read responses yet).

[SlackerInc 0]

I checked behind and Villain turned over the King high flush.Incidentally, that check helped me steal chips like mad from him later because of the amount of respect he gave me the rest of the way. :)Took 2nd when my 9k chips were sucked away by 3 consecutive runner runner suckouts by a real donk. Gotta love poker.

King high flush--so what was his other card, just out of curiosity?That's cool that you got respect for that move. Did he say something in the chatbox?

[copernicus 0]

Does anyone reraise a bit more on the turn?There's 750 in the pot, and our raise is only 450...I probably check the river down.

My first thought was absolutely. After the raise hes getting 3:1 odds and has to think he'll get at least a few more chips on the river so hes got implied odds for the draw. Looking at the stacks closer though, you cant go that much higher without being pot committed and giving him huge implied odds when he hits. I dont know if going to 700 or 750 really makes that much of a difference if hes on a draw.I dont like his attempt at a check raise (if thats what it was) for the same reason. Any bet you put in on the river will pot commit you, and he should know you wouldnt put in a bet without the full house or nut flush. He may have feared the nut flush or a boat and not been check raising though.

[simo_8ball 0]

I dont like his attempt at a check raise (if thats what it was) for the same reason. Any bet you put in on the river will pot commit you, and he should know you wouldnt put in a bet without the full house or nut flush. He may have feared the nut flush or a boat and not been check raising though.

If his line was c/c, I'm pretty certain that bet/fold is way better.

[copernicus 0]

If his line was c/c, I'm pretty certain that bet/fold is way better.

Why would he bet/fold? If you have the set and dont believe he has the flush, youre going to push back because any bet is pot committing anyway. And, of course, youre pushing back if you have the nut flush or boat. Bet/call is far better than check/call because he may get some value out of the flush. Bet/fold makes no sense to me.

[simo_8ball 0]

Why would he bet/fold? If you have the set and dont believe he has the flush, youre going to push back because any bet is pot committing anyway. And, of course, youre pushing back if you have the nut flush or boat. Bet/call is far better than check/call because he may get some value out of the flush. Bet/fold makes no sense to me.

If he bets his K high flush, what hand shoves that he beats? A set (full house) will shove. The nut flush may shove. A lower flush is unlikely to.There are a reasonable number of hands that can call a bet that would check behind if given the chance.

[melaskins 0]

A question for you guys that are more seasoned than myself:Would any of you call the 600 bet on any flush draw with one card to go? As a poker newbie, the 600 bet looks like enough to push off any draws. With top pair and top kick, the 600 bet is certainly a play that I would make. When I got called I would be convinced that I was up against a set or a made straight. Personally, I don't think SB is that good of a player. Or am I the one that is wrong here? Because I would definitely fold a flush draw to this bet.

[simo_8ball 0]

A question for you guys that are more seasoned than myself:Would any of you call the 600 bet on any flush draw with one card to go? As a poker newbie, the 600 bet looks like enough to push off any draws. With top pair and top kick, the 600 bet is certainly a play that I would make. When I got called I would be convinced that I was up against a set or a made straight. Personally, I don't think SB is that good of a player. Or am I the one that is wrong here? Because I would definitely fold a flush draw to this bet.

After the raise hes getting 3:1 odds and has to think he'll get at least a few more chips on the river so hes got implied odds for the draw.

The 600 in itself is a large bet, but he only has to call a further 450 because he has already put 150 in. He needs to call that 450 into a pot that is already 1350. He will make his flush about 1 time in 5, so he is a 4:1 underdog. Because he is calling 450, he needs to make 4 times that amount to break even when he hits. 4x450=1800. He needs to make on average a further bet of 1800-135=450 on the river to make calling profitable. I think this is reasonable.Also, if he has an overcard he can expect to occasionally be able to hit a pair to win. This means he sometimes has three more outs to win. If that is the case he will make a winning hand nearly 25% of the time. The greater his % equity the less he needs to make on the river to make calling correct.

[copernicus 0]

If he bets his K high flush, what hand shoves that he beats? A set (full house) will shove. The nut flush may shove. A lower flush is unlikely to.There are a reasonable number of hands that can call a bet that would check behind if given the chance.

Absolutely, and that covers the bet part, but not the fold part. Any hand that calls a worthwhile bet also shoves because of the stack sizes, so he cant fold to a push back. Bet/call is by far his best line here.

[simo_8ball 0]

stack sizes

You know, I really should read the hand history before posting.

[SlackerInc 0]

The 600 in itself is a large bet, but he only has to call a further 450 because he has already put 150 in. He needs to call that 450 into a pot that is already 1350. He will make his flush about 1 time in 5, so he is a 4:1 underdog. Because he is calling 450, he needs to make 4 times that amount to break even when he hits. 4x450=1800. He needs to make on average a further bet of 1800-135=450 on the river to make calling profitable. I think this is reasonable.

But he didn't have the nut draw, and he didn't make any more on the river. I think this is a marginally unprofitable call (but one most people would have trouble laying down).

[copernicus 0]

But he didn't have the nut draw, and he didn't make any more on the river. I think this is a marginally unprofitable call (but one most people would have trouble laying down).

Its a clear fold based on current odds, but as you said, most people wont lay it down because they figure to get paid off by TPTK/two pair/set. If stacks were deeper you would want to charge more for the draw, but say he goes to 850. Now hero only has 740 behind, he'll be small stack at the table, and the pot after a call would be 2300. Villain can reasonably expect to get all of heros chips after that large a raise, giving him plenty of implied odds. With these stack sizes its very hard if not impossible to get rid of the flush draw. Also there are still two players in the hand when hero makes his decision, and when there is uncertainty in the hand vs two players you generally have to bet more..again, impossible because of the stack sizes. All of that would lead me to bet less on the turn so I can get away from it on the river.

[simo_8ball 0]

But he didn't have the nut draw, and he didn't make any more on the river. I think this is a marginally unprofitable call (but one most people would have trouble laying down).

Yeah. In this particular scenario, on this exact time, he did not make enough to make the turn profitable. On other occasions (when the board doesn't pair possibly) he may bet the river and the player with AQ might call. There he would be making over $1k, so that would be more than he needed.His call isn't bad.

[SlackerInc 0]

Its a clear fold based on current odds, but as you said, most people wont lay it down because they figure to get paid off by TPTK/two pair/set. If stacks were deeper you would want to charge more for the draw, but say he goes to 850. Now hero only has 740 behind, he'll be small stack at the table, and the pot after a call would be 2300. Villain can reasonably expect to get all of heros chips after that large a raise, giving him plenty of implied odds. With these stack sizes its very hard if not impossible to get rid of the flush draw. Also there are still two players in the hand when hero makes his decision, and when there is uncertainty in the hand vs two players you generally have to bet more..again, impossible because of the stack sizes. All of that would lead me to bet less on the turn so I can get away from it on the river.

Couldn't it argue for a push instead?