Davin Anderson

[TR1N1TY 0]

So a few months back I email Davin (dabest247) Thought it would be cool to pick his brain because I liked his style and he had some success in the 2005 WSOP making it deep. (24th place if I recall) We live pretty close to each other, and he says 'buy me a beer at Outback' and I say 'sure' but it never happened..we never actually got together to discuss strat so whatever I didn't give much more thought to it.So tonight for some reason I think to myself 'hmm I wonder what happened to Davin, I haven't seen him playing big tourneys lately' and I check his OPR...pretty pathetic for 2007...negative ROI with no decent tourney cash since New Years Day.The guy used to be balling it with all the 'top ranked' players with an average buy in over $100 and then wham....in 2007 he has been mickey mousing 10 and 20 dollar freezeouts so I'm genuinely curious what happened to him.So I email him tonight...Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:27:33 -0700 (PDT)From: "XX" <xxxxxxx@yahoo.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile AlertSubject: Hey DavinTo: xxxxxxx@hotmail.comHey man whats up,I was just wondering what was goin on with you. Ilooked up your OPR and noticed you were running alittle cold this year and that your buy ins haddropped to the 10 and 20 dollar level. I guess yourlast decent cash was on New Years Day and I wascurious what was goin on with you. You dont seem tobe taking poker as seriously as you were. I know youare a bad *** so whats going on ?XX____so 10 minutes later after I send the email, I get an 'invite' on Yahoo messenger from him and obv I accept. I was looking forward to discussing strat and finding out why this guy had dropped off the competitive map (so to speak) So his story was basically that his wife pressured him to give up poker and that he was focused on other 'business ventures' which happened to be poker related. I guess his plan is to market more tourneys to some of the local card rooms, but for the most part his focus is off of competitive tourney poker. Hey, the guy has 2 kids and a wife... so I can understand why his priorities have changed...but the fact is that he was a bad *** player when he was peaking, and had a ton of deep finishes in major online/live events so you gotta respect that. Thats why I started making an effort to correspond to him in the first place.So anyway we got off that subject of his wife/family etc, and I basically said ' So I guess you have decided to give up competitive poker for the sake of your family' (which is perfectly justified) and he kinda sighed and said 'yea'OK so when we had first started talking he told me that he had been mentoring Aaron Kanter (even after his 3rd place WSOP main event cash) and I asked him about Aaron..Davin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:06:22 PM): he just never got "it"Davin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:06:30 PM): i tried helping him for almost a yearDavin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:06:43 PM): 3-6 hour sessions once twice a weekDavin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:07:23 PM): he would argue with me for hours on points that shouldn't have to be arguedDavin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:07:48 PM): and in the beginning i thought it was good that he was thinking for himselfDavin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:08:21 PM): but then after 7-8 months of it, and we still had the same arguments, i knew he wasnt gonna get itSo at this point we start discussing the 'infamous' hand where Aaron busts Greg Raymer...http://www.cardplayer.com/hand_matchup/39I was kind of defending Kanters push on the turn here and Davins thoughts were that it was 'second level thinking'...or 'amateur thinking' to make the kind of play that Kanter did on the turn in this hand. My mindset is that if you are in the final 25 of the WSOP and you pick up a flush draw on the turn in that situation...you run with it for better or for worse. Kanter made a play which happened to work out for him when he caught his flush...but the essense of the entire hand is based on 'picking a hand' and running with it. IMO the play Aaron made here was solid and he caught a break...its about as simple as that. His call on the flop to Raymers c-bet was questionable...but IMO this type of balls out play is EXACTLY what it takes to win big events. Unfortunately Davin disagreed (and thats an understatement)He went on to berate me about how my thinking was 'second tier thinking' and pretty much ripping on Aaron Kanter for being a lucky donk. How he had talked to Greg about his thought process in that spot and that Aaron was a donk period end of story.So we had been on the phone for about 20 minutes at this point, and my thoughts were pretty much that Aaron made a reckless play and happened to catch a break. We were discussing this particular hand in great detail but his opinion was that his protege' was a lucky newb nothing more. So after all this discussion of an interesting hand....Davin started to pretty much belittle me for giving Aaron any credit whatsoever for pushing that turn. He said that my thinking was 'amateur' (2nd tier) thinking and started to get all pissed off at me that he had explained how Raymers play was so correct and how much of a dumba$$ his protege' Aaron was. We had a heated discussion about that particular hand and Davins attitude was pretty much 'F U ...I'm right you're wrong...period end of story'This was about the time I reminded him that he was a career 32% ROI player and he hung up on me. LOLI was really interested in what led him to put poker on the back burner of life, and didn't have any intention of ripping him because I love Davins style....but apparently he didn't appreciate me even suggesting that his take on the Raymer/Kanter hand was worthy of a discussion. This guy has his own issues obviously, and is hating life because his donk buddy Aaron won almost 3 million and he hasn't caught his big break yet.I just thought it was poetic that someone with a career 32% ROI is ripping on someone who won almost 3 million dollars and deciding to 'cut them loose' as a protege' when the the last time he had a cash worth mentioning was on New Years Day.Anyway I guess what I am saying is that there is a VERY thin line between advanced level thinking...and catching a break when you need it. Davin was so consumed with the notion that Aaron was a lucky idiot, but my thinking is that with 25 left in the main event of the biggest poker tourney in the world....sometimes you gotta grab your balls and make a play...for better or for worse.

[GWCGWC 83]

I'd play tourneys 18 hrs a day if I could maintain a 28% ROI.

[navybuttons 15]

your posts are my favorite.please start a blog.

[mmmsandwiches 0]

i agree with you that he shouldn't have gotten all defensive about kanter's play. sounds a little bitter to me. maybe cuz he isn't playing as well, or as much as he would like. i still think that kanter is a total donkey. too bad bad things went south. would've been to cool to hear some of his tourney strat.

[loxo 0]

At what point did you start talking on the phone?

[TR1N1TY 0]

At what point did you start talking on the phone?

a few minutes after this IM...Davin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:08:21 PM): but then after 7-8 months of it, and we still had the same arguments, i knew he wasnt gonna get itI offered my number and he called me up a couple minutes later

[loxo 0]

a few minutes after this IM...Davin Anderson (4/26/2007 9:08:21 PM): but then after 7-8 months of it, and we still had the same arguments, i knew he wasnt gonna get itI offered my number and he called me up a couple minutes later

Sweet, nice job.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Somebody post the Kanter/Greg Raymer HH pls.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Oh, and when a super strong player takes time out of his day to help out a guy who he has never met in his entire life, perhaps the best course of action is to not be an *** and get into heated arguments with them, and then disrespect them, just a thought.

[mmmsandwiches 0]

Somebody post the Kanter/Greg Raymer HH pls.

http://www.cardplayer.com/hand_matchup/39

[GrinderMJ 0]

While I disagree with how you handled yourself, and the way you acted towards a player who reached out to you. I find this hand to be pretty standard. Raymer c-bets that flop a huge % of the time, and Kanter just floated the flop. On the turn, I think Kanter put Raymer in a sick sick spot, and I like the turn play from Kanter (he has outs, if Raymer has a set/two pair hand).

[TR1N1TY 0]

Oh, and when a super strong player takes time out of his day to help out a guy who he has never met in his entire life, perhaps the best course of action is to not be an *** and get into heated arguments with them, and then disrespect them, just a thought.

'super strong' ???The guy has a career ROI on Stars of 32% in MTT's... hardly 'super strong'.... and is running at a negative ROI for 2007. His results are nothing to write home about. The only reason that I looked him up was because he has (had) an aggressive style that was hard to put your finger on. That doesn't mean I was worshipping the guy by any means. Just because some guy has seen a few minutes of ESPN glory doesn't make him a 'super strong' player by any means. I emailed him tonight because I was genuinely curious why he had dropped off the proverbial map...nothing more. But our conversation about the Kanter/Raymer hand got the point where he was right I was wrong period end of story. He deserves his fair share of respect...but I am entitled to my take on the hand. The whole point here is that he pretty much flipped out when I suggested that Aaron's play had some merit to it.

[TR1N1TY 0]

Oh, and when a super strong player takes time out of his day to help out a guy who he has never met in his entire life, perhaps the best course of action is to not be an *** and get into heated arguments with them, and then disrespect them, just a thought.

Grinder I wasn't 'reaching out' to him for advice , a stake or anything of the sort. I emailed him to discuss why he his dedication to the poker scene had seemingly dropped off the charts...nothing more. Initially I was going to meet up with him and buy him a beer and pick his brain on MTT strat, but that meeting never materialized for whatever reason(s).

[Jordan 1]

Grinder I wasn't 'reaching out' to him for advice , a stake or anything of the sort. I emailed him to discuss why he his dedication to the poker scene had seemingly dropped off the charts...nothing more. Initially I was going to meet up with him and buy him a beer and pick his brain on MTT strat, but that meeting never materialized for whatever reason(s).

this story would have been better if you guys got drunk and then got in a fight together.orgot drunk and made sweet sweet man-love together while crying and masturbating with each others tears.yuck i just puked in my mouth.- Jordan

[GrinderMJ 0]

'super strong' ???The guy has a career ROI on Stars of 32% in MTT's... hardly 'super strong'.... and is running at a negative ROI for 2007. His results are nothing to write home about. The only reason that I looked him up was because he has (had) an aggressive style that was hard to put your finger on. That doesn't mean I was worshipping the guy by any means. Just because some guy has seen a few minutes of ESPN glory doesn't make him a 'super strong' player by any means. I emailed him tonight because I was genuinely curious why he had dropped off the proverbial map...nothing more. But our conversation about the Kanter/Raymer hand got the point where he was right I was wrong period end of story. He deserves his fair share of respect...but I am entitled to my take on the hand. The whole point here is that he pretty much flipped out when I suggested that Aaron's play had some merit to it.

****, if I had a career long 32% roi, I would play a ballsload of tournies every day and make 100k+ a year

[TR1N1TY 0]

well my ROI in MTT's over the last 2 years is over 90%, but I am still eager to discuss tourney strat with players who play at a higher level ( or used to... like Davin)....Im always eager to discuss tourney strat with anybody...but I have had my own fair share of success with several wins in large field MTT's so I am not going to lay down and accept an opinion like Davins as gospel. The fact that my opinion on Aaron Kanters play in that particular play was moreless ridiculed as 'second tier thinking' kind of pissed me off.Davin deserves a certain measure of respect for his tourney cashes (online and live) but I sure as hell won't lay down to the type of dismissive ridicule he dished out considering the fact that my ROI in MTT's for the last year basically triples his. respect is one thing...kissing a$$ blindly because someone had a few minutes of ESPN face time is another.

[socalpoker_j 1]

Grinder I wasn't 'reaching out' to him for advice , a stake or anything of the sort. I emailed him to discuss why he his dedication to the poker scene had seemingly dropped off the charts...nothing more. Initially I was going to meet up with him and buy him a beer and pick his brain on MTT strat, but that meeting never materialized for whatever reason(s).

I'm sure he thanks you for being the self-appointed Poker Passion Police.

[seemorenuts 0]

Thanks for the great post!Can you point him out in the photo?

[TR1N1TY 0]

I'm sure he thanks you for being the self-appointed Poker Passion Police.

I just emailed him to ask him why he wasn't playing as much or what exactly happened in general. I wasn't passing judgement, I was genuinely curious why he had dropped out of the higher stakes tourneys after having some deep finishes in recent months. Its not my place to judge the guy because he has a wife and kids....I just wanted to find out what was going on with him and what had happened and if he was just playing on a recreational level now. I didn't pry at all or try and judge him on his family life or the reasons why he had decided to take a step back from the 'circuit'. But the fact is that he copped an attitude with me and dismissed my take on the Kanter/Raymer hand as 'second level thinking' ...basically suggesting that I was some noob idiot who can't comprehend the magnitude or mindset behind these types of situations. I'm not sorry for being offended by that considering I have 3 times the ROI in MTTs over the last 2 years than he does. Just because Davin had a few minutes of face time on ESPN and a top 30 finish does not make him some poker God who can never be questioned.

[TR1N1TY 0]

Thanks for the great post!Can you point him out in the photo?

the asian guy in the red shirt

[Mayor_Qu1mby 0]

well my ROI in MTT's over the last 2 years is over 90%

Can you post some results or anything to prove this? Is this 90% due to low volume?

[TR1N1TY 0]

Can you post some results or anything to prove this? Is this 90% due to low volume?

I'm not going to post my MTT results or validate my tourney cashes/ROI because I am trying to maintain a certain measure of anonymity...But I assure you the ROI of 90% + I stated is accurate...and my volume is anything but 'low'. My MTT numbers from an 'ROI' standpoint dwarf most of these self appointed 'pros' and thats a fact. But the reality is that I don't play high stakes or have the luxury of hob-knobbing with these 'young guns' who are bankrolled by deep pockets so from a profit standpoint my results are less than noteworthy.The point of this entire thread was to basically say that these so called 'pros' like Davin (or any other self appointed 'pro' for that matter) are more often than not living under a shroud of disguised stats and their 'expertise' shouldn't be accepted as gospel by any means.There are a ton of 'pros' who went on a sick run and whammo >> poker career.There is a pretty fine line between being an 'elite' player with sick skills and being a lucky donk idiot. Tiffany Williamson and Dmitri Nobles illustrated that point to a T. So as far as my conversation with Davin went tonight goes.....yes I can appreciate the fact that he went deep in the 2005 WSOP....thats great. Good for him....but that doesn't mean I am gonna line up to blow him just because he caught a few breaks deep in the tourney to get him that far. And it sure as hell doesn't mean I am going to accept his take on Aarons play against Raymer as gospel.Davin (was) a good player who has apparently decided to back off from his pursuit of poker as a career....for his own personal reasons. But the fact he had a few minutes of ESPN airtime and made the final 3 tables in the WSOP doesn't mean I should worship him for his decision making skills.You (all of you) should be careful of dishing out too much respect to these top tier 'name' players who happened to catch a few cards late in these big events and vault them to 'success' on a national level. There is a very fine line to winning a big tourney and busting out in last place. One big win for these guys and pow....its all over...circuit 10K events all you can eat.

[seemorenuts 0]

Tiffany Williamson and Dmitri Nobles illustrated that point to a T. Please feel free to elaborate how anyone thought (erroneously, I guess) that these two had some career...No sarcasm, I haven't been following them... btw, I'm inclined to agree with your entire post, I see it in many occupations.Two side notes:1) your avatar is scary, is that Iranian leader, Ihadyouinmybed?2) Anderson as a last name, I remember meeting this totally gorgeous Pakastani woman whose last namewas Anderson in the Body Shop at the SE corner of Church and Wellesley in the city of Toronto. Go figure.Mebbe they came from the matrix.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Ok sorry, I have to call BS. There is no way you have played anything resembling a large sample if you have a 90% roi in MTT's.

[TR1N1TY 0]

Tiffany Williamson and Dmitri Nobles illustrated that point to a T. Please feel free to elaborate how anyone thought (erroneously, I guess) that these two had some career...No sarcasm, I haven't been following them... btw, I'm inclined to agree with your entire post, I see it in many occupations.Two side notes:1) your avatar is scary, is that Iranian leader, Ihadyouinmybed?2) Anderson as a last name, I remember meeting this totally gorgeous Pakastani woman whose last namewas Anderson in the Body Shop at the SE corner of Church and Wellesley in the city of Toronto. Go figure.Mebbe they came from the matrix.

I suppose what I am suggesting is that you may have read every poker book available in the English speaking world, subscribed to cardrunners or pokerxfactor (or any of the other scam 'tutorial' sites) and made all the correct decisions in every tourney you ever played. But there is an element in poker which comes down to raw instinct and the way the cards fall for you...that is going to inevitably define you as a poker 'pro'. Guys like Isaac Haxton, Alex Jacob, and countless other 'no-names' made their mark by building a huge stack early in a tourney and putting it to work for them. It's not as if any of us haven't been in that spot before to win a big MTT. 'mega' success in the poker world is a few coin flips away, and thats the truth of the matter if you can absorb the dent in your bankroll. I'm not impressed by any of these so called 'TV pros' who were fortunate enough to have the deck slap them in the face when it mattered most. Any one of you could be the next WPT champ if you had the buy in to compete at that level. As far as I am concerned...Davin Anderson has an over inflated ego and a wife who has got him on a pretty short leash. He is hardly some mystical poker prodigy who we should line up to worship because he happened to make it deep in the 2005 WSOP.